Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[underground nymph]

Not a problem at all if you turn off kingdom management from start.

 

[Pink Eye]

Not a problem at all if you turn off kingdom management from start.

Some events can end your playthrough if you don't see to them immediately.

 

[Trashos]

I like kingdom management, I am not looking to turn it off.

 

[Pink Eye]

I like kingdom management, I am not looking to turn it off.

Good lad. Stick to it. Best loot is behind the Kingdom management.

 

[Sykar]

Regarding storytelling so far (I am still level 4) I gotta say I find the early premises a bit silly and inconsistent. I mean, "King wanted, no experience required" makes little sense. You have two suspects of treason, naming both of them team leaders is stupid. The whole "traitor" thing does not really work from a logical point of view. Yet I find the whole thing charming, the tone is right, and I suppose story will get better.

In BG 1 I had the feeling from the beginning that the story was very strong and consistent, but I have seen too little of PF:KM to make a real comparison between the two.

>I mean, "King wanted, no experience required" makes little sense.
It's a farce. A deliberation of sorts. The Aldori are not looking for kings, they are looking for willing pawns to play their game. Preemptively, they are trying to create a region within the Stolen Lands. This region will be used as a buffer zone, and a means to a civil war, when that time arises. You will have to play more, as Lady Jamandi does explain to you the history of the Stolen Lands, and her strategy. Also, if you haven't picked up yet, the name "Stolen Lands" does have meaning. To put it simply, everyone and their mother has claim to the land, yet no one is willing to actually back their claims, as it will lead to civil war. However, a couple of clueless adventurers, now that's a different story.

Which is why Lady Aldori is more trustworthy than many others. At least she tells you that you are a pawn of a bigger game, to gain independence from the Surtovas, and an expendable one at that right there before your coronation as baron.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Shatmaker's plot is pretty stupid. Bandit cartel next door? Looking 4 Kangz to replace them: open to any retard who can swing a sword. A bunch of groups vying for control, but you barely get any information to distinguish between them, before they are swept away by the broom of the real plot: your continuous butt-rape at the hands of the ugliest nymph in the history of fantasy.

 

[Trashos]

It strange to me to see such dislike for the "earn your barony with your sword" part. I thought this is pretty common everywhere. We have no titles where I am from, but lots of the powerful people in the Balkans are descendants of warlords.

 

[razvedchiki]

Shatmaker's plot is pretty stupid. Bandit cartel next door? Looking 4 Kangz to replace them: open to any retard who can swing a sword. A bunch of groups vying for control, but you barely get any information to distinguish between them, before they are swept away by the broom of the real plot: your continuous butt-rape at the hands of the ugliest nymph in the history of fantasy.

beats anyday medieval walking simulators about king and country.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

It strange to me to see such dislike for the "earn your barony with your sword" part. I thought this is pretty common everywhere. We have no titles where I am from, but lots of the powerful people in the Balkans are descendants of warlords.

It's not that, it's the details. If you had a lot of armed men, sure you could claim some land, that's how it was done usually. But for local strongmen to invite "adventurers" in tiny parties to take over neighboring lands just sounds retarded.

 

[Pink Eye]

It strange to me to see such dislike for the "earn your barony with your sword" part. I thought this is pretty common everywhere. We have no titles where I am from, but lots of the powerful people in the Balkans are descendants of warlords.

It's not that, it's the details. If you had a lot of armed men, sure you could claim some land, that's how it was done usually. But for local strongmen to invite "adventurers" in tiny parties to take over neighboring lands just sounds retarded.

It's a risky strategy on the Aldori. Invite an unknown force to upset the current balance of power. Which they themselves will only stand to benefit from. Of course that is assuming that this wild card that they are devoting resources to, will act in their interest.

 

[Efe]

if they claim the contested lands and it creates diplomatic issues.
so they let some murderhobos do it and they make sure these hobos are indebted/friendly to them

 

[underground nymph]

What is the point to make super tweakable difficulty level and leave a possibility to change it throughout the game with no restrictions at all?

 

[Serus]

It strange to me to see such dislike for the "earn your barony with your sword" part. I thought this is pretty common everywhere. We have no titles where I am from, but lots of the powerful people in the Balkans are descendants of warlords.

It's not that, it's the details. If you had a lot of armed men, sure you could claim some land, that's how it was done usually. But for local strongmen to invite "adventurers" in tiny parties to take over neighboring lands just sounds retarded.

It's a risky strategy on the Aldori. Invite an unknown force to upset the current balance of power. Which they themselves will only stand to benefit from. Of course that is assuming that this wild card that they are devoting resources to, will act in their interest.

That's not the point. This one time (the surprise!) Porky is right. "An unknown force" - a force of one level 1 murderhobo. Even the people you "have" with with you aren't truly yours. You dont have really have even the smallest retinue of your own when you come to Aldori. It has nothing to do with risky strategy or anything like that. That is retarded no matter how much you want to defend the plot of the game you clearly like.
I like it too btw.

 

[Shadenuat]

This is why I found Maegar Varn story of his mercenary band and me-Casca from berserk his love interest more realistic premise than main story.

 

[Trashos]

Maybe it would have been better from a narrative standpoint to *first* gather a few allies and *then* be a potential Baron, but then the whole start of the game would have to look very different.

I really do not mind it though, and it did not strike me as strange before it was mentioned here (and it still does not). You are all assuming that there were better candidates for the job than "murderhobos", but I do not know where you are basing that assumption. The fact that you are level 1 at that point is irrelevant, since it was evidently good enough to do the job.

Also, the Aldori are Chaotic, so naturally they probably believe in self-made people.

 

[kelkorkesis]

That's not the point. This one time (the surprise!) Porky is right. "An unknown force" - a force of one level 1 murderhobo. Even the people you "have" with with you aren't truly yours. You dont have really have even the smallest retinue of your own when you come to Aldori. It has nothing to do with risky strategy or anything like that. That is retarded no matter how much you want to defend the plot of the game you clearly like.
I like it too btw.

But they didn't only recruit a single person. Aldori gathered a lot of people. Most of them died in prologue and somehow one them (you) managed to success despite terrible odds.

 

[Delterius]

It strange to me to see such dislike for the "earn your barony with your sword" part. I thought this is pretty common everywhere. We have no titles where I am from, but lots of the powerful people in the Balkans are descendants of warlords.

It's not that, it's the details. If you had a lot of armed men, sure you could claim some land, that's how it was done usually. But for local strongmen to invite "adventurers" in tiny parties to take over neighboring lands just sounds retarded.

It's a risky strategy on the Aldori. Invite an unknown force to upset the current balance of power. Which they themselves will only stand to benefit from. Of course that is assuming that this wild card that they are devoting resources to, will act in their interest.

That's not the point. This one time (the surprise!) Porky is right. "An unknown force" - a force of one level 1 murderhobo. Even the people you "have" with with you aren't truly yours. You dont have really have even the smallest retinue of your own when you come to Aldori. It has nothing to do with risky strategy or anything like that. That is retarded no matter how much you want to defend the plot of the game you clearly like.
I like it too btw.

Not only did they hire a small band of shitty mercenaries, the threat in tuskland is so shitty that later on you remove the stag lord with just 6 people.

 

[Trashos]

Politically, the problem is not that the Stag Lord is uber powerful, but that whoever gets this land will have to maintain a balance between the Surtovas and the Aldori. And practically, the land is also cursed. So there is that.

 

[Pink Eye]

It strange to me to see such dislike for the "earn your barony with your sword" part. I thought this is pretty common everywhere. We have no titles where I am from, but lots of the powerful people in the Balkans are descendants of warlords.

It's not that, it's the details. If you had a lot of armed men, sure you could claim some land, that's how it was done usually. But for local strongmen to invite "adventurers" in tiny parties to take over neighboring lands just sounds retarded.

It's a risky strategy on the Aldori. Invite an unknown force to upset the current balance of power. Which they themselves will only stand to benefit from. Of course that is assuming that this wild card that they are devoting resources to, will act in their interest.

That's not the point. This one time (the surprise!) Porky is right. "An unknown force" - a force of one level 1 murderhobo. Even the people you "have" with with you aren't truly yours. You dont have really have even the smallest retinue of your own when you come to Aldori. It has nothing to do with risky strategy or anything like that. That is retarded no matter how much you want to defend the plot of the game you clearly like.
I like it too btw.

>Even the people you "have" with with you aren't truly yours.
The people of whom you ally with are met under difficult circumstances. You save Linzi and Tartuccio from a small group of assassins. You prove yourself as a capable leader worth following during battle with Amiri. Depending on your choices during the fire, you prove yourself, again, as a capable competent leader while helping Valerie rescue the soldiers from the impending fire; then rushing to defend Lady Jamandi from an assassination attempt. Valerie not being much of a leader and more of a soldier who follows orders, will follow you based on the valor you showcased. Really the only odd ones who are questionable are Harrim and Jaethal. Harrim who preaches the end of times has no reason to follow you, as he welcomes death. Jaethal who is a undead should have no real reason to engage in the politics of living beings. I'll give you that. The rest of the would be allies died during battle with the assassins.

The situation is so dire in the Stolen Lands, that the Aldori are wiling to gamble on a small group of adventurers.

 

[Trashos]

Harrim is (half-)interested in seeing the former dwarven locations in the region.

For Jaethal I am not sure, I am under the assumption that she is in fact looking for her killer.

 

[Pink Eye]

Harrim is (half-)interested in seeing the former dwarven locations in the region.

For Jaethal I am not sure, I am under the assumption that she is in fact looking for her killer.

>For Jaethal I am not sure, I am under the assumption that she is in fact looking for her killer.
Only after you speak to her at Oleg's Trading Post. It doesn't make much sense for an undead to participate in the Aldori's offer.

 

[Efe]

jaethal is out of place in many ways anyway...
"hello, be careful there are traps behind me which i walked past cos im undead.. yea dont worry about that"

 

[Serus]

It strange to me to see such dislike for the "earn your barony with your sword" part. I thought this is pretty common everywhere. We have no titles where I am from, but lots of the powerful people in the Balkans are descendants of warlords.

It's not that, it's the details. If you had a lot of armed men, sure you could claim some land, that's how it was done usually. But for local strongmen to invite "adventurers" in tiny parties to take over neighboring lands just sounds retarded.

It's a risky strategy on the Aldori. Invite an unknown force to upset the current balance of power. Which they themselves will only stand to benefit from. Of course that is assuming that this wild card that they are devoting resources to, will act in their interest.

That's not the point. This one time (the surprise!) Porky is right. "An unknown force" - a force of one level 1 murderhobo. Even the people you "have" with with you aren't truly yours. You dont have really have even the smallest retinue of your own when you come to Aldori. It has nothing to do with risky strategy or anything like that. That is retarded no matter how much you want to defend the plot of the game you clearly like.
I like it too btw.

>Even the people you "have" with with you aren't truly yours.
The people of whom you ally with are met under difficult circumstances. You save Linzi and Tartuccio from a small group of assassins. You prove yourself as a capable leader worth following during battle with Amiri. Depending on your choices during the fire, you prove yourself, again, as a capable competent leader while helping Valerie rescue the soldiers from the impending fire; then rushing to defend Lady Jamandi from an assassination attempt. Valerie not being much of a leader and more of a soldier who follows orders, will follow you based on the valor you showcased. Really the only odd ones who are questionable are Harrim and Jaethal. Harrim who preaches the end of times has no reason to follow you, as he welcomes death. Jaethal who is a undead should have no real reason to engage in the politics of living beings. I'll give you that. The rest of the would be allies died during battle with the assassins.

The situation is so dire in the Stolen Lands, that the Aldori are wiling to gamble on a small group of adventurers.

You completely miss the point - again. You came to aldori alone and they are not your people. They only join you later because of circumstances. But that's irrelevant. Its one thing to "gamble" to someone that make sense and stand a chance to actually do what he is expected to do, what a single level 1 murderhobo cannot possibly do. A second son of some completely unimportant noble or an adventurer with a an actual (small) retinue would make some sense at least. Not much but some.

The more basic thing is that the whole part of the plot where you build your own barony doesn't make sense under the assumption of a typical crpg gameplay - tiny group of murderhobos walking around and killing stuff. It simply doesn't, no matter how you spin it.
It could be adjusted to some degree by a human GM to make sense but by computer its impossible. That's btw the problem about most of the rpg modules that aren't strictly dungeon crawlers (and even then...). The ones that make it work somewhat (Planescape which i don't like but it did it) are rare.

 

[Trashos]

Come on now, on the one hand we keep saying that we hate lore dumps, and on the other we are going to blame Jaethal that she did not spell out her motivations from the very beginning? It is definitely at least looking for her killer. The only way that this is not it is if she gives other motivations too that I am forgetting. I mean, she has a whole quest about looking for her killer.

And btw, I hate spelling out. I wish games gave more room for brainstorming, theories, and discussions among fans. Kingmaker does a decent job of being subtle on a few occasions, but even it could have done better.

 

[Pink Eye]

Come on now, on the one hand we keep saying that we hate lore dumps, and on the other we are going to blame Jaethal that she did not spell out her motivations from the very beginning? It is definitely at least looking for her killer. The only way that this is not it is if she gives other motivations too that I am forgetting. I mean, she has a whole quest about looking for her killer.

And btw, I hate spelling out. I wish games gave more room for brainstorming, theories, and discussions among fans. Kingmaker does a decent job of being subtle on a few occasions, but even it could have done better.

Compare the likes of Fane to Jaethal. Fane is an undead who doesn't care if a couple of living beings die, nor does he pester himself with their politics. He only becomes interested in following you after the fact, and even then his purpose is to look for artifacts that relate to his people. Meanwhile Jaethal joins you because why? Her motivations for joining the MC are weak. If hers was to search for the supposed killer, then she could have stated so. Otherwise it is quite hard to ignore it. As Efe put it,"hello, be careful there are traps behind me which i walked past cos im undead.. yea dont worry about that.. Also I am going to be your follower now.. K thnx"