Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Trashos]

At lvl10 you are probably around Lamashtu's Womb, although it is possible that you are not there yet (and I do want to hear what you think of Lamashtu's Womb once you go through it). My Jaethal sword&shield tank has around 45AC with buffing at that point. A full Knifemaster Nok-Nok goes a bit higher, but does not reach 50. I would not be surprised if other builds can reach 50, but I do not know.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, a Jaethal tank build probably reaches 50 by lvl10 by rushing 3 lvls in Inquisitor, getting the Shield Wall feat, and wielding the Arcane Protector dagger.

 

[Tigranes]

I'm actually at 11 and finished Vordakai, and pre-buff ACs for MonkPC, Noknok and Sword & Shield Cleric Jaethal are all around mid-30s - If I kept Valerie around she'd probably be at 40ish prebuff.

As for Lamashtu, I had mixed feelings.

Spoiler

I harbour a deep suspicion of any dream/alternative reality sequence in CRPGs, because I feel like they depend on pulling you out into an alternative verisimilitude (= requiring lots of new loredumping) and sometimes an alternative gameplay element ( = inevitably far more gimmicky and annoying). Shadowrun is an example of this, as were TTON's innumerable dreamlike sequences.

Here, gameplay wise, I wasn't a big fan of walking around teleporting clouds fighting spiders and the like. The area was also very claustrophobic in a way that worked against what the area was supposed to be. I did enjoy how it forced a resource scarcity problem and a sense of being trapped in a hostile environment with limited resources to make it through. I don't think the area was super obtuse, and it didn't frustrate me hugely, but I do think that's always the risk these kinds of areas run.

Also, I had a cleric so I could adjust to all the spiders/poison easily enough, and I certainly think it's perfectly fine to throw challenges like that the player's way. It's a bit like ghosts in POE - it's a stress test on different aspects of your party that is necessary to keep a proper sense of challenge.

Story-wise, I did think there were some nice elements. The conceit of an ancient crime of avarice being the source of the Stolen Lands as a recurring land of crisis I think is a really neat way to explain pretty much the entire backdrop of the adventure, and dovetails with the "wow, another strange disaster breaking out of nowhere?" element of kingdom management, which was previously amusing and is now meaningful. That was probably the first piece of lore in this game that made me curious about how it pans out next - I have zero interest in the sob story of some guy sentenced a thousand years ago, but I am interested in how it impacts regional politics during the game and the future of the barony. I'm also glad that the game gives you something concrete after the super-boring-cringy-generic "hi im a mystery nymph visit u at night lololol" bits in Act 1.

 

[Trashos]

Ha! I love the teleporting clouds, I think the concept is really cool. You are going to see them again, I am afraid.

 

[Trashos]

Also, I will avoid spoilering you, but I also thought what the Womb gnome said was interesting. He said that MC and the nymph are a bit alike. It is interesting to think what the nymph's story means as a parallel to MC's story. But in due time.

 

[Sjukob]

Whoever thought that giving swarm enemies evasion was a good idea needs to be fed to the said swarms of pests alive.

 

[Mexi]

When should you do the DLC? I think that Maevern DLC or whatever teh fuck his name is? What's the best time to do it? PoE had a cool guide for the optimal times to do DLCs.

 

[deuxhero]

Mexi
The Depths in story mode open up as you play more. Just complete the floors open to you whenever you have downtime and your advisors are occupied rendering you unable to do anything else for a few days.
For Varnhold's Lot, anytime between getting the barony and Varnhold Vanishing.

 

[Pink Eye]

At lvl10 you are probably around Lamashtu's Womb, although it is possible that you are not there yet (and I do want to hear what you think of Lamashtu's Womb once you go through it). My Jaethal sword&shield tank has around 45AC with buffing at that point. A full Knifemaster Nok-Nok goes a bit higher, but does not reach 50. I would not be surprised if other builds can reach 50, but I do not know.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, a Jaethal tank build probably reaches 50 by lvl10 by rushing 3 lvls in Inquisitor, getting the Shield Wall feat, and wielding the Arcane Protector dagger.

You can splash some stalwart defender levels instead of inquisitor. That's how I build my sword and board Jaethal. Stalwart Defender has some nice bonuses to AC, and a stance for tanking. Whenever I find a good choke point, I like to turn that stance on. It does wonders.

 

[Yosharian]

No fucking way I'm giving up Pally saves

I don't understand. Why do you think you need pally saves as a Sword Saint?

Because it lets me fucking waltz unharmed into almost any spell or magic effect

I mean if you're asking why I boost CHA it's because my SS build uses high persuasion

 

[Yosharian]

I don't understand either. Saves are not necessary when you have spells that can give you immunities. There also items that gives you immunities too. Having nice saving throws is nice and all, but it doesn't matter when you can kill things faster than they can cast.

I can give the immunity items to my other tank tho...

As for spells, there aren't immunity spells for everything, far from it

 

[Trashos]

You can splash some stalwart defender levels instead of inquisitor. That's how I build my sword and board Jaethal. Stalwart Defender has some nice bonuses to AC, and a stance for tanking. Whenever I find a good choke point, I like to turn that stance on. It does wonders.

Yes, I also put in Stalwart Defender levels, but later (which may be an inaccuracy). I probably have to reorganize her progression. I am keeping the 3 Inquisitor levels though.

 

[Haplo]

No fucking way I'm giving up Pally saves

I don't understand. Why do you think you need pally saves as a Sword Saint?

Because it lets me fucking waltz unharmed into almost any spell or magic effect

I never needed to waste levels on pally to achieve that with my Sword Saint. Granted, he had high-ish Wisdom.

 

[Pink Eye]

You can splash some stalwart defender levels instead of inquisitor. That's how I build my sword and board Jaethal. Stalwart Defender has some nice bonuses to AC, and a stance for tanking. Whenever I find a good choke point, I like to turn that stance on. It does wonders.

Yes, I also put in Stalwart Defender levels, but later (which may be an inaccuracy). I probably have to reorganize her progression. I am keeping the 3 Inquisitor levels though.

Yeah I like the 3 inquisitor levels too.

 

[Yosharian]

No fucking way I'm giving up Pally saves

I don't understand. Why do you think you need pally saves as a Sword Saint?

Because it lets me fucking waltz unharmed into almost any spell or magic effect

I never needed to waste levels on pally to achieve that with my Sword Saint. Granted, he had high-ish Wisdom.

Wisdom only boosts Will saves...

 

[Haplo]

With Transformation he had something like 38 Fortitude. Reflex was never really any concern, enemies don't use dangerous reflex spells (chains of light, vinetrap, icy prison, Sirocco).

 

[Shadenuat]

Sirocco is fortitude. If it was Reflex, WH would laf at it.

What would be an impressive AC at say level 10 (pre or post buff)?

for Unfair you want ~40ish as early as beginning of the game and 60+ lategame, 70 for endgame. you can get to 100ish but it's pointless.
however it is still fairly pointless without immunity to crits/mirror images and good health pool also helps.

standard ways of reaching high AC are adding stats and spells and abilities to it; but 20 level tower shield specialist can also reach very hich AC just takes longer.

endgame most of your AC comes from broken munchkin gear. so early game various degenerate classes/hybrids work best, lategame most characters can reach high ac.

generally opinion on AC is split I think on camps of

~i have 100 ac lol nub (when endgame monsters can't hit higher than 70-80): the spreadsheet warrior
~higher ac is better than lower ac: the reasonable ventilator
~ac is meaningless, I just CC kill everything 1 turn: the smilodon samara girl style

 

[Yosharian]

Hmm

 

[Yosharian]

I don't really buy that Pally saves are superfluous but I'll admit it's possible that they aren't necessary, I just like having that defensive aspect on my MC

 

[Sjukob]

Whoever thought that giving swarm enemies evasion was a good idea needs to be fed to the said swarms of pests alive.

The guy responsible for implementing storms deserves the same.

 

[Pink Eye]

In the year of our Lord and Savior, why is this still a fucking thing?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

In the year of our Lord and Savior, why is this still a fucking thing?

Fooking elves leaving their shitty crossbows everywhere.

 

[Darth Canoli]

The guy responsible for implementing storms deserves the same.

And all the animated fucking plants, some areas in the last dungeon DLC were quite annoying because of this (stuttering).

Also the animated water tiles, in the silver thing village is also a pain, it's alright until the fey's casters spawn a water elemental and you add some aoe effects on top of that, well, it was way worse on my previous attempt, this time i just lost the sound a couple of times and finished these fights quickly.

 

[Sjukob]

And all the animated fucking plants, some areas in the last dungeon DLC were quite annoying because of this (stuttering).

Yeah, when the water tiles get involved the FPS drops significantly: Lastlorn, Tenebrous Depths - Weary Traveler floor and Tranquil River Bend, all suffer from this, although I don't remember having issues with Silverstep village.

By the way, I wanted to ask, how do certain classes complete Verdant Chambers, especially on higher difficulties ? What do you do if you play a 2h fighter ? Or a barbarian ? Or a strength monk ? Or a support character not specced for offense, like bard ? Mind that I haven't explored the location properly and only played characters that were either good at kiting or had some good defenses - grenadier and melee sorc with displacement and mirror image, so I went straight for the owlbear and flytrap each time. Can you actually ignore Nyrissa's invitation entirely ?

 

[Yosharian]

And all the animated fucking plants, some areas in the last dungeon DLC were quite annoying because of this (stuttering).

Yeah, when the water tiles get involved the FPS drops significantly: Lastlorn, Tenebrous Depths - Weary Traveler floor and Tranquil River Bend, all suffer from this, although I don't remember having issues with Silverstep village.

By the way, I wanted to ask, how do certain classes complete Verdant Chambers, especially on higher difficulties ? What do you do if you play a 2h fighter ? Or a barbarian ? Or a strength monk ? Or a support character not specced for offense, like bard ? Mind that I haven't explored the location properly and only played characters that were either good at kiting or had some good defenses - grenadier and melee sorc with displacement and mirror image, so I went straight for the owlbear and flytrap each time. Can you actually ignore Nyrissa's invitation entirely ?

Is that the one where she

Spoiler

ambushes you with the monsters?

I just cast invisibility and ran out of there. Came back to annihilate those fuckers later on when I was stronger.

 

[Sjukob]

Is that the one where she ambushes you with the monsters? I just cast invisibility and ran out of there. Came back to annihilate those fuckers later on when I was stronger.

Yes it's that place. I specifically mentioned those martial classes, because they don't cast spells and have rather low defense, and support bard isn't going to kill stuff anyway. Also, flytrap has pretty high perception + there are vine and glitterdust traps.