Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[ga♥]

Still at -4/-4

Sounds like a bug. Still -4/-4 if you equip a light weapon off hand?

 

[Tigranes]

I've been maniacally respeccing my protagonist between different variations of monk and sword saint, trying to see how different ways of stacking AC / hit bonus. I remain relatively unfamiliar with PKM's systems, staying for now on Challenging (though it's a bit too easy now).

Seems to me that first of all there are still some bugs with the stacking - e.g. WIS bonus to AC disappearing. Sometimes it might be a stacking rule thing where, say, Shield isn't adding deflection bonus due to certain items, but it can be a little mysterious. Anyway, ultimately I find Sword Saint a bit fiddly. Spellstrike and stuff is a pain to do on turn-based, because starting your turn not in reach of the target penalises you in terms of how activities are counted, the exact edges of the AOO isn't always clear (I'm standing just outside the red circle but still get hit while casting), and so on. Doing a 3 Rogue/Monk with DEX and finesse now and I'm relatively happy.

Can't hold a candle to Nok-Nok and Jubilost, though.

As a side note, AC/hit bonus stacking really seems to be the name of the game - POE was often criticised for being too dependent on accuracy/defence stacking, but here almost everything you're doing is built around stacking ridiculously high. It's good fun to munchkin out on it, of course.

 

[ga♥]

Why not rogue 4 so you get uncanny dodge?

Tigranes

 

[Yosharian]

I think I might switch my Main Character build to Bloodrager from the Call of the Wild mod. I'm literally only taking Rogue for Uncanny Dodge right now and it's driving me nuts. Bloodrager gets Uncanny Dodge at level automatically, so I'd be able to go straight Bloodrager 17 instead of Sword Saint 13/Rogue 4. Of course I'd then lose Canny Defense, which would be a loss of eight AC. But... maybe it's worth it.

I'd also lose Lethal Focus (int to damage) but that's at level 20 right now so not a huge impact on the build overall.

I'd also lose quite a few bonus feats so that would be a slight issue.

Another option would be to take 2 levels of Bloodrager only instead of 4 levels of Rogue. I'd lose Evasion, 2 feats, Sneak Attack...

 

[ga♥]

Archaelogists get uncanny dodge at lvl2, not sure how it fits there though.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Archaelogists get uncanny dodge at lvl2, not sure how it fits there though.

Look at them traps and stuff that Indiana Jones had to avoid.

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah I considered Archeologist 2 but it just doesn't bring enough to the table. At least Bloodrager 2 would give me Bloodrage, Fast Movement, and a Bloodline power, which are pretty nice, although I probably wouldn't use Bloodrage that much.

I decided against it in the end, Bloodrager 17 is pretty bad even compared to Sword Saint 13.

Plus relying on mods is a little unpredictable.

 

[kelkorkesis]

Yosharian
Why do you need Uncanny Dodge as a Sword Saint? They have really high initiative to care about it.

 

[Yosharian]

Yosharian
Why do you need Uncanny Dodge as a Sword Saint? They have really high initiative to care about it.

Nah, endgame mobs have so much fucking +Initiative it's ridiculous. Getting cut to pieces in the first round is actually really annoying, especially if the enemy has a lot of archers.

Honestly Rogue 4 brings so much to the table it's almost not even an issue. Debilitating Injury, Evasion, 2 free feats, 3d6 Sneak Attack.

 

[Tigranes]

I didn't look too closely beyond 3 because I was focused on the finesse stuff. But maybe 4 is the magic number - I can always top it up as I go.

The system seems to encourage little dips for almost every non-caster character just like Deadfire, honestly.

 

[Haplo]

Yosharian
Why do you need Uncanny Dodge as a Sword Saint? They have really high initiative to care about it.

Nah, endgame mobs have so much fucking +Initiative it's ridiculous. Getting cut to pieces in the first round is actually really annoying, especially if the enemy has a lot of archers.

Actually that's another reason to stay
mostly pure as a SS (well barring that 1 monk dip). Perfect Reflexes at 19 mean you literally NEVER loose initiative (and always catch enemies flat footed on combat start).
Before end game Mirror Image is usually enough of a buffer when you sometimes loose the Init roll.

 

[Yosharian]

Yosharian
Why do you need Uncanny Dodge as a Sword Saint? They have really high initiative to care about it.

Nah, endgame mobs have so much fucking +Initiative it's ridiculous. Getting cut to pieces in the first round is actually really annoying, especially if the enemy has a lot of archers.

Actually that's another reason to stay
mostly pure as a SS (well barring that 1 monk dip). Perfect Reflexes at 19 mean you literally NEVER loose initiative (and always catch enemies flat footed on combat start).
Before end game Mirror Image is usually enough of a buffer when you sometimes loose the Init roll.

Well yeah but a) that's at level 19 and b) my build would never get there

No fucking way I'm giving up Pally saves

 

[ga♥]

The system seems to encourage little dips for almost every non-caster character just like Deadfire, honestly.

I don't know about poe2 since I uninstalled it after 15 minutes of play. This said, my first playthrough I literally did 0 dips, for the MC and companions, and did just fine. And it was before all the nerfing that occured.

The same argument could be said of the IE games where it "encouraged multiclassing". But it wasn't really necessary, isn't it?

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I've been maniacally respeccing my protagonist between different variations of monk and sword saint, trying to see how different ways of stacking AC / hit bonus. I remain relatively unfamiliar with PKM's systems, staying for now on Challenging (though it's a bit too easy now).

Seems to me that first of all there are still some bugs with the stacking - e.g. WIS bonus to AC disappearing. Sometimes it might be a stacking rule thing where, say, Shield isn't adding deflection bonus due to certain items, but it can be a little mysterious. .

You will lose monk WIS AC when equipping a shield (or armor).
Shield adds shield AC, not deflection AC. The only other source of shield AC is the shield spell.

 

[Darth Canoli]

You will lose monk WIS AC when equipping a shield (or armor).
Shield adds shield AC, not deflection AC. The only other source of shield AC is the shield spell.

I'm not sure about the shield, i tried a shield for my monk (turned Harrim into a Rogue / Monk with the respec mod) and the bonus were displayed like they stacked.
Could be a temporary bug though, i remember bonuses from combat expertise and fight defensively (and maybe even crane style) didn't work at first, took some time for them to show up (possibly reloading the game).

Sounds like a bug. Still -4/-4 if you equip a light weapon off hand?

No idea, i'll have to check next time i fire it up.
Doesn't bother me that much though, most of the time i don't even use buffs like heroism or the bard's song because Amiri (Rogue /Barbarian) and Valerie (Fighter / vindicative bastard ?) have too much to hit bonuses already. (had to increase enemies stats to the max)

Not that's a big problem but the overall difficulty is like a rollercoaster track, you can find extremely powerful monsters every now and then and then, some story events throw some pathetic monsters your way (like the goblin village).

This game sends me some mixed signals, each time i find something positive about it, something equally annoying shows up.
For example, i really like how the traps are handled here, you'll never walk on a trap you just spot like in the BGs for example (or PoE) because not only the game pauses and the detect radius was increased but if you click on disarming the trap, the party stops and the designated rogue comes forward alone to disarm it.

On the other hand, "their pull things in a defined order without getting any clues" mechanism gets old quick.
And the billion bugs ...

A blessing there's a TB mod, would never have played past the first chapter otherwise.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I'm not sure about the shield, i tried a shield for my monk (turned Harrim into a Rogue / Monk with the respec mod) and the bonus were displayed like they stacked.
Could be a temporary bug though, i remember bonuses from combat expertise and fight defensively (and maybe even crane style) didn't work at first, took some time for them to show up (possibly reloading the game).

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/

These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.

You lose that AC also when encumbered, even medium encumbrance. No idea if this is bugged currently though, or if it ever worked in PF:K in the first place. I never actually used a shield on monk characters.
My point was when he "randomly" loses WiS AC it's probably encumbrance or equiping the wrong items.

 

[Pink Eye]

VentilatorOfDoom That is a bug with monk. I have no idea if they ever fixed it or not.

 

[Haplo]

No fucking way I'm giving up Pally saves

I don't understand. Why do you think you need pally saves as a Sword Saint?

 

[Pink Eye]

I don't understand either. Saves are not necessary when you have spells that can give you immunities. There also items that gives you immunities too. Having nice saving throws is nice and all, but it doesn't matter when you can kill things faster than they can cast.

 

[ga♥]

Agreed. Especially with basically no good enemy mages/spellcasters.

Spoiler

I tend to pickup Jaethaifu reincarnation in her daughter choice which gives a nice boost to her saves for RP reasons. Totally unnecessary. Her becoming the "perfect undead" is much better powerwise.

 

[Tigranes]

I've been maniacally respeccing my protagonist between different variations of monk and sword saint, trying to see how different ways of stacking AC / hit bonus. I remain relatively unfamiliar with PKM's systems, staying for now on Challenging (though it's a bit too easy now).

Seems to me that first of all there are still some bugs with the stacking - e.g. WIS bonus to AC disappearing. Sometimes it might be a stacking rule thing where, say, Shield isn't adding deflection bonus due to certain items, but it can be a little mysterious. .

You will lose monk WIS AC when equipping a shield (or armor).
Shield adds shield AC, not deflection AC. The only other source of shield AC is the shield spell.

I mean, yeah, that's common sense. I'm not equipping shields/armour, and I was referring to Shield spell (which sometimes wouldn't do anything). Naked unarmed forever, baby.

Curious as to how far true munchkins get when stacking AC. What would be an impressive AC at say level 10 (pre or post buff)?

 

[ga♥]

At lvl10 you are missing all the good items. So doubt anything impressive. Also what are we talking about here? Monk?

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Damn, game still has annoying bugs. Started playing undead bloodline magus and the bloodline spell does not work with spellstrike, despite being melee touch spell.

 

[Efe]

probably not a spell but spell like ability.

 

[Tigranes]

At lvl10 you are missing all the good items. So doubt anything impressive. Also what are we talking about here? Monk?

sure, monk. i think i only had 30 or so, but i am only halfway through my first playthrough and just fiddling.