Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Efe]

are you on dlc dungeon or main campaign?

 

[LannTheStupid]

Supposedly they fixed the bug where Arcane Protector can give you bonuses, even if you don't have it equipped in the active weapon set.

What about the other bonus, immunity to "nauseated"? Does it work unequipped as well?

Also, strictly speaking the monk does equip the dagger. It's on his belt.

 

[Pink Eye]

are you on dlc dungeon or main campaign?

Main campaign.

 

[mediocrepoet]

There's also a bug where a fighter (couldn't replicate it on other classes) who is dual wielding but has a shield equipped in an alternate slot still gets the shield ac even when dual wielding. Kinda makes the shield bash line mostly pointless.

 

[Desiderius]

While I can see religion being part of it, To be Lawful or Good is a very old trope.

As is, of course, religion itself. The one in question has been at the heart of Russian understanding of both Law and the Good for 13 odd centuries, a branch of a broader religious tradition lasting over two millennia, which itself brought together traditions tens of thousands of years older than that.

http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/arnold/writings/4.html

Trivialization of religion on the other hand is very recent.

I find it silly that their religion would make them unable to write something.

We're all unable to write an infinite number of things. What matters is what they did write, and the universe of those possibilities is populated by one's cultural heritage. Said heritage has Orthodoxy at its heart.

The problem IMO, is dividing when a good act is NG or LG. Chaotic is passionate/compulsive. That's not hard. Then what is Lawful? Rigid and cold? If so Lawful-Good will feels out of place a lot of the time.

That's an effeminate way to look at it. Lawful is devoting oneself to what is an almost certainly futile war against the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Only a Fool's Hope.

On discussion several pages ago we were discussing what Lawful means. Valerie, for example, shows a Lawful Dumb tendency usually reserved to bad Paladin role player, that is Law above all. She saw something (Troll) get tortured, flinch at the cruelty, but because she is Lawful she is thinking that it is okay since Barth said that he did it within a legal framework. I don't think anybody except a law student will have this kind of view realistically. But if she is going against torture of sentient (albeit not on par to humanlike races in PfK), that would shift her to be Neutral/Good. Now in this context (Barth torturing sentient troll that begs you to end its suffering), and taking the context that Barth is doing it legally, then what a Lawful Good response be?

Yes, this is very good, and why I brought up the Six Antitheses. Jesus is answering (anti-) the Pharisees (Law for its own sake, as with your idea of Val) and Sadducees (Law for their own sake, as with Bart) with the Lawful Good conception (Law for Goodness sake), which is why I think Owlcat gets rightfully confused.

See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Inquisitor

The problem with CE on the other hand is less on the Law-Chaotic axis, but on the Good- Evil axis. In PfK, Reg, for example, is not done in homicidal maniac CE is usually portrayed as. Instead, he is very obsessive regarding his revenge and hatred of slavery. His chaotic evil for all intent and purpose is directed at "revenge at all cost side." He won't complain if you help somebody because he is not evil for the kick of it. Now interpreting this CE into lot of contexts is hard because sometimes there is no "grey" kind of evil present.

Yes, very perceptive and exactly right. One strength of Pathfinder is their sympathetic* portrayal of various sentient being caught in different kinds of evil, especially Avellone's Goblins.

* - literally "suffering together" and as Yoda can tell you Evil brings a lot of suffering with it.

 

[LannTheStupid]

It's interesting when a Westerner huffs and puffs about understanding of religion in the light of Russian Orthodox church whereas chief people at Owlcat are former Soviets who were brouhgt up on the legacy of 1917-1920 when priests were thrown from bell towers.

 

[NJClaw]

*Brief intermission between philosophical discussions*

The Outflank crit chain always makes me laugh:

Spoiler

Ah, if I only had Seize the Moment...

*end of intermission*

 

[Pink Eye]

Yeah, AoO stacking is ridiculous. I am super addicted to it.

 

[NJClaw]

Yeah, AoO stacking is ridiculous. I am super addicted to it.

Another thing that always cracks me up is when a dumb archer tries to shoot while threatened in melee and with Improved Cleaving Finish you cut through him and his entire family:

Spoiler

 

[Pink Eye]

Desiderius I have never read "The Grand Inquisitor". I guess I should rectify that.

 

[Desiderius]

Desiderius I have never read "The Grand Inquisitor". I guess I should rectify that.

Should ain't got nothing to do with. Do what thou wilt.

You'll get more out of it (and life) if you read it in the course of reading the book.

 

[Desiderius]

It's interesting when a Westerner huffs and puffs about understanding of religion in the light of Russian Orthodox church whereas chief people at Owlcat are former Soviets who were brouhgt up on the legacy of 1917-1920 when priests were thrown from bell towers.

Unlike yourself, they seem bright enough to learn from their mistakes. The only legacy of the 1917-1920 clowns is that they get to make textbooks boring enough that it's a challenge for some Westerners to pretend to read them, making for a decent diligence screen for getting their guild card.

That's not huffing and puffing, you'll know it when I huff and puff. Ignorance of and alienation from one's own people and traditions are at the heart of Western Decline, especially the writing in our games. Easterlings make a decent control group.

 

[Pink Eye]

Fear the choke point!

 

[Yosharian]

Nope. Still not fixed:

Sorry, I'm too stupid to solve this puzzle.

He gains the Arcane Protector's dodge bonus even if it isn't equipped.

I tested this, you do not receive bonuses from non-equipped weapons. Maybe it's a bug specific to Arcane Protector?

Edit: ok yeah AP is granting dodge bonuses when equipped in unused slots, LMAO nice one Owlcat

 

[DalekFlay]

Fear the choke point!

Hardest fights in the game in my experience are where they spawn enemies out of nowhere behind your casters/archers after the fight begins. I guess that's true for any game like this though. Octavia dies, reload, know it's coming and move them to a safe spot ahead of time, repeat.

 

[Yosharian]

*Brief intermission between philosophical discussions*

The Outflank crit chain always makes me laugh:

Spoiler

Ah, if I only had Seize the Moment...

*end of intermission*

Seize the Moment doesn't stack with Outflank.

 

[Yosharian]

Wow it's not just Arcane Protector, tons of stuff is adding bonuses while equipped in unused slots. Just tested Staff of Whispering Souls and it works, lmao

 

[Pink Eye]

Fear the choke point!

Hardest fights in the game in my experience are where they spawn enemies out of nowhere behind your casters/archers after the fight begins. I guess that's true for any game like this though. Octavia dies, reload, know it's coming and move them to a safe spot ahead of time, repeat.

>Hardest fights in the game in my experience are where they spawn enemies out of nowhere behind your casters/archers after the fight begins.
Pretty much, yeah. Which is unfortunate, in my opinion. Although, there are some real good boss fights in Kingmaker. I don't want to spoil anything, though.

 

[Xamenos]

*Brief intermission between philosophical discussions*

The Outflank crit chain always makes me laugh:

Spoiler

Ah, if I only had Seize the Moment...

*end of intermission*

Seize the Moment doesn't stack with Outflank.

Are you absolutely sure about that?

Fear the choke point!

Hardest fights in the game in my experience are where they spawn enemies out of nowhere behind your casters/archers after the fight begins. I guess that's true for any game like this though. Octavia dies, reload, know it's coming and move them to a safe spot ahead of time, repeat.

On reason I liked the Siroket battle. You couldn't cheese it like that.

 

[Yosharian]

Well. Alright I admit I didn't test it, but I read online that it doesn't stack

https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/0/2805074491022851948/#c2805074491022868378

Waagabond
4 Nov, 2018 @ 6:12pm

No it dont stack as it does the same thing with different wording. There is no double proc.

I have outflank and seize the moment in one of my campaigns and I can verify that you only get one proc of attack of opportunity when your allies crit.

Both basically give an attack of opportunity to you when an ally is critting.
Or you give attack of opportunities to your ally if you are critting.

If all your team members have ouotflank it does exactly the same thing as seize the moment. To the T.

You take outflank and skip seize the moment.
That said, you really want Combat Reflexes that is a mandatory skill if you have atleast 3 melee with high crit range weapons as the attack of opportunities will be flying in like no tomorrow.

As for the original question : Nope, dont pick the feat up if you have outflank. If you have outflank pick it up but makes no sense to take seize the moment over outflank, zero sense at all

 

[Desiderius]

Well. Alright I admit I didn't test it, but I read online that it doesn't stack

It doesn't stack in that if you have both you don't get two AoOs at once, but it does stack in that an additional crit that round (like you'll often see in a crit chain) will trigger Seize after you've burned your Outflank trigger.

Seize also triggers off of Ranged crits. It's good to get for a Fighter with Fighter's Tactics which works similar to Inquisitor's Solo Tactics so you don't need anyone else to waste a feat on it to get it to work. Can also share it with Vanguard or Tactical Leader for bosses.

 

[Desiderius]

On reason I liked the Siroket battle. You couldn't cheese it like that.

Likewise the Demon in Pitax Torture Chamber near Reaford.

 

[NJClaw]

Can anyone confirm that Vital Strike doesn't work with Overhand Chop?

 

[NJClaw]

Yosharian, is that WTF because they should work together or because it's obvious you can't use Overhand Chop with Vital Strike?

As far as I know, they should "stack", since Vital Strike is used as part of an attack action:

Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. [...]

and Overhand Chop works with any attack action:

At 3rd level, when a two-handed fighter makes a single attack (with the attack action or a charge) with a two-handed weapon, he adds double his Strength bonus on damage rolls.

However, I can't find a way to get the Overhand Chop bonus while using Vital Strike:

Spoiler

These are two attacks made by a Level 6 Fighter with the Two-Handed archetype and 21 Strength:
- the first one is without Vital Strike and the damage bonus is correct (5x2 + 1 from Weapon Training);
- the second one is with Vital Strike and the damage is wrong (5x1,5 + 1 from Weapon Training).

 

[Pink Eye]

I have become DEATH! DESTROYER OF WORLDS!