Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Simple Simon]

I think completion % is not the best way to measure whether a game is good or not. For example, I have a lot more than 30 hours invested into Elex but I'm not sure I am even to Chapter 2 yet because I went around and got all the companions and did sidequests and stuff like that. I believe Chapter 2 does not start until you pick a faction and I did not want to close myself off to the other factions until I did all the stuff I could for them. In the meantime, I got distracted by other games. To the extent that's a problem, it is a problem with me, not with the game. That being said, I will agree that the load times in Pathfinder can be off-putting. It can feel like you need to be able to commit to 3 plus hours of gaming just to make any kind of significant progress.

 

[Safav Hamon]

It turns out Deadfire actually outsold Kingmaker.

It made steam's top 100 ranked by gross revenue list, and Kingmaker didn't.

https://store.steampowered.com/sale/winter2018bestof/

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Yet at the time, you did dismiss them as if you were blind, and I trust that more than any potential backpedaling in the now. Yes, some of it is nitpicking (but the Tristian thing is not; it's glaring), but the fact remains that they passed you by completely, and saying that previous chapters had as obvious issues as latter ones is a straight-out lie, since I wouldn't have played as much as I did if that was true; I'd just have dismissed the game as shit outright, much as the initial meeting with Jaethal almost did.

There's just simply no way in hell you've had 500 nearly bug-free hours of play. It is possible you have 500 hours of only bugs you don't care about, but that's a huge fucking difference, since your standards are incredibly low, as established both here (in terms of narrative issues, bugs, etc) and elsewhere (in terms of games in general).

Okay buddy, whatever you say.

 

[2house2fly]

It doesn't say anything about whether the game is good, but it's an indicator of what people who bought the game thought of it. If the vast majority of players get put off and never finish the game, then that's got to make the developer nervous. How many people would be enticed to buy a game by seeing "from the makers of Pathfinder Kingmaker" in the ad? How many people would be put off by it?

 

[Simple Simon]

It turns out Deadfire actually outsold Kingmaker.

It made steam's top 100 ranked by gross revenue list, and Kingmaker didn't.

https://store.steampowered.com/sale/winter2018bestof/

Jokes aside, Deadfire came out about 4 months before Kingmaker and has had several sales that included the 3 DLCs. Kingmaker's first DLC just came out. So we are not exactly comparing apples to apples.

 

[ArchAngel]

It turns out Deadfire actually outsold Kingmaker.

It made steam's top 100 ranked by gross revenue list, and Kingmaker didn't.

https://store.steampowered.com/sale/winter2018bestof/

Jokes aside, Deadfire came out about 4 months before Kingmaker and has had several sales that included the 3 DLCs. Kingmaker's first DLC just came out. So we are not exactly comparing apples to apples.

Also Deadfire is selling for 45Euro while P:KM is 40 Euro. It matters when both games only sold few 100 000 copies.

 

[ArchAngel]

As for the discussion in last few pages, someone mentioned that its score is back to 69% (it went up over 80% last time I checked) on Steam. I went to read negative reviews and most are complaining about bugs, game stopping their progress, them not enjoying last two chapters or people irritated by loading screens and bad kingdom management (I also complained about this a lot).
Ending chapters even people here complained about so it is understandable that normies are even more pissed about it.

It is still a best RPG of 2018 but lets be realistic and admit game is far from what it could and should have been. That it is still best just shows how pathetic is the choice of quality cRPGs on the market.

 

[Cael]

You also can't see narrative inconsistencies even when explicitly pointed out to you. Your ability to notice things and make judgements regarding them is suspect at best.

I saw what you mentioned and I thought you were nitpicking. I felt Chapter 5 flowed just as well as the first few, and even became one of my favorite chapters yet. Yes, you can see some dumb things in that chapter but also throughout the game. It's not perfect. If you care to list them again I will break each one down point by point if you'd like. I'm not blind.

Yet at the time, you did dismiss them as if you were blind, and I trust that more than any potential backpedaling in the now. Yes, some of it is nitpicking (but the Tristian thing is not; it's glaring), but the fact remains that they passed you by completely, and saying that previous chapters had as obvious issues as latter ones is a straight-out lie, since I wouldn't have played as much as I did if that was true; I'd just have dismissed the game as shit outright, much as the initial meeting with Jaethal almost did.

There's just simply no way in hell you've had 500 nearly bug-free hours of play. It is possible you have 500 hours of only bugs you don't care about, but that's a huge fucking difference, since your standards are incredibly low, as established both here (in terms of narrative issues, bugs, etc) and elsewhere (in terms of games in general).

Most of the companions read like Mary Sues or at the very least some sort of personal author pet like Wesley. Out of all of them, maybe Valerie's one is the least hammy or "muh spehsual". I mean, seriously. Tristian being a fallen angel? Come on! That is four year old "I am a hero" fantasy stuff.

 

[ga♥]

I agree on these points from Gregz review:

Maps are reused 4-5 times in places.

Unbearable load times. Frequent required trips back to your throne room to solve kingdom management issues makes this especially painful

+5 weapons, worth thousands of GP, can be found in barrels and crates in towns during the end game.

Kingdom management is a tedious and joyless experience. The option to play with it disabled doesn't work. There are many cases where you can lose the game by "misplaying" this mechanic, without explanation.

Not much on the rest.

Anyway you still spent 430 hours, honestly could you explain how did you play a game you hate so much for 430 hours?!?!?

 

[Gregz]

Anyway you still spent 430 hours, honestly could you explain how did you play a game you hate so much for 430 hours?!?!?

Easy. I alt-tabbed out and left the client running while doing other things, including sleeping.

 

[Safav Hamon]

It is still a best RPG of 2018 but lets be realistic and admit game is far from what it could and should have been. That it is still best just shows how pathetic is the choice of quality cRPGs on the market.

I think Deadfire is best, but I still agree with you.

Two RTwP infinity engine clones should not be competing for the title of best CRPG. Hopefully next year is better.

 

[drgames]

It made steam's top 100 ranked by gross revenue list, and Kingmaker didn't.

Divinity Original Sin 2 sold even more, thus it is better than PoE 2 and Pathfinder: Kingmaker. And yet, it is one of the most generic shining piece of shit I have recently played. See the fallacy of your logic?

Also keep in mind that gross revenue is the total amount of sales recognized for a reporting period, but it does not indicate the profit. Obsidian lost very hard with PoE 2.

 

[pm_675]

Virgin PoE fanboys have to come here since Deadfire thread is dead. Except the same three or four people trying to convince themselves that pillows is more entertaining than watching paint dry.
Sad.

 

[ArchAngel]

I can fully understand people that really didn't like P:KM endgame and then in rage leave a negative post on Steam even after playing the game for 100-200h.
I kind of did the same few years ago. I played Underrail, reached endgame and got so angry because of Deep Caverns I never finished the game and on Codex GotY poll for that year voted for POE 1 over Underrail due to being able to finish PoE 1.
I am so sorry
Emotions ruled over common sense in that moment.

 

[vortex]

There was a stream with developer Arseniy Deriglazov. He's such an interesting dude and probably one of my favorite narrative designer.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/354953802

 

[Lhynn]

Its not hard to compare PoE 2 to PFKM, its very hard to stop if you start tho.

But as a general rule what PoE2 lacks is generally aiming to challenge the player in any way. It offers absolutely nothing but burning hours of your life till the next game comes along.

PFKM has its flaws, a ton of them even after getting past the bugs, but it constantly challenges the player, it constantly asks the player to think. Its happy to leave the player with the tools he picked and if none of them work thats fine. This goes beyond difficulty, and it is an intrinsic part of gameplay for the duration of the game. This forces the player to engage with the game, it makes the player care about the outcome.

 

[2house2fly]

Anyway you still spent 430 hours, honestly could you explain how did you play a game you hate so much for 430 hours?!?!?

Ha, people who like Bethesda games say this to their critics all the time

This forces the player to engage with the game, it makes the player care about the outcome.

Actually, in 98% of cases, it doesn't.

 

[Lhynn]

Actually, in 98% of cases, it doesn't.

Up to the player if he wants to be challenged or not.

Most players in general are happy with the illusion. But i like to think we call those retards bullshit here.

Also as i said, buggy release can put a lot of people off.

 

[ArchAngel]

Seems RPG Watch got a review for P:KM out: https://www.rpgwatch.com/show/article?articleid=466

 

[archaen]

Seems RPG Watch got a review for P:KM out: https://www.rpgwatch.com/show/article?articleid=466

We got us a 2% on our hands here. My views closely match *hers*. Polish up the last two chapters, increase load speed,and it is my best crpg of all time.

 

[Crichton]

I've been playing this for the past few weeks (currently somewhere in chapter 2, just got the bard a job as cultural advisor) and I rather like it but I'm surprised it's gotten such a positive reception here. It's very much a suped-up NWN2:OC, shitload of character development options, mega-weapons, RTwP, wonky encounter design, good music, OK graphics, mixed writing, basebuilding minigame. For people like me who liked the NWN2:OC, it's great: bigger, better ruleset and they put some effort into Crossroad Keep this time! Not so sure about it being an instant classic though...

Best thing so far: tying up the troll king with skeletons while Ekundayo murders him with that acid damage bow (makes Frostseeker look like a tinker toy).

Worst thing so far: 2 min after rescuing Octavia, she's propositioning my character despite the fact that she has a boyfriend, because they have an understanding. Crom's Iron Legions! I thought the shark fag from Deadfire was bad; modern games need a "companions don't talk about about their personal lives" checkbox! You know where the troll king lives or a guy who has a map to Ukaizo? Great. You have deviant sexual tastes? STFU.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

We got us a 2% on our hands here. My views closely match his. Polish up the last two chapters, increase load speed,and it is my best crpg of all time.

It's up there for me, too. know I'll revisit it a lot in the future. I can't wait to see the endless dungeon and the Varnhold DLC, too. I really hope after those 3 DLC they decide to make even more DLC or at the very least work on a huge sequel. They are a very promising RPG studio.

 

[ArchAngel]

Part of the game up to Stag Lord is one of the best cRPG parts of any game ever. If they made a whole RPG with that level of quality instead of losing time and effort on half finished features like Kingdom management, it would be the best game ever.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I've been playing this for the past few weeks (currently somewhere in chapter 2, just got the bard a job as cultural advisor) and I rather like it but I'm surprised it's gotten such a positive reception here. It's very much a suped-up NWN2:OC, shitload of character development options, mega-weapons, RTwP, wonky encounter design, good music, OK graphics, mixed writing, basebuilding minigame. For people like me who liked the NWN2:OC, it's great: bigger, better ruleset and they put some effort into Crossroad Keep this time! Not so sure about it being an instant classic though...

Best thing so far: tying up the troll king with skeletons while Ekundayo murders him with that acid damage bow (makes Frostseeker look like a tinker toy).

Worst thing so far: 2 min after rescuing Octavia, she's propositioning my character despite the fact that she has a boyfriend, because they have an understanding. Crom's Iron Legions! I thought the shark fag from Deadfire was bad; modern games need a "companions don't talk about about their personal lives" checkbox! You know where the troll king lives or a guy who has a map to Ukaizo? Great. You have deviant sexual tastes? STFU.

Octavia is the village bicycle

 

[purpleblob]

Seems RPG Watch got a review for P:KM out: https://www.rpgwatch.com/show/article?articleid=466

We got us a 2% on our hands here. My views closely match his. Polish up the last two chapters, increase load speed,and it is my best crpg of all time.

*Hers.* Thanks for sharing the review here, ArchAngel.