Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Darth Canoli]

It's called Skyrim Syndrome. Modern gamers want to SEE ENEMY - KILL ENEMY - NO THOUGHT NEEDED. It's pretty sad and steep decline, too. Handmade, non-level scaled worlds often add tough encounters off the beaten path that you will A) die to, then hopefully B) realize you need to come back later. It's fairly simple. Any talk of the "DM got it wrong" is steep, STEEP decline. Sad.

That one was funny.

Boy, it's called the loading screen + poor traveling mechanism syndrome.
It's so painful to explore that you try to avoid to have to return to locations you already visited.

As far as i'm concerned, hard encounters is a good thing, as long as it's it looks "fair", in ToEE, you get a quest to kill the King Frog and that fight can turn to a nightmare when the giant crocodile join along with the lizardmen and their witch (in some versions you can't fight them separately, they join no matter how far you stay from them), it's fun, then again, ToEE has it's flaws but none of PK loading and traveling shenanigans.

Also, wererats with high level alchemist fire (and in such quantity) is just absurd.

There was also the spider cave early in the game where the big spider isn't even a threat but the spiderlings are immune to normal weapons and take 10 minutes to kill, was that fun ? More like a chore.

Also, the flying skull in the mite/kobold war area that appears when you sleep in the improvised camp, you're somewhat warned some monsters killed a group of adventurers and just nearby, on the top of a hill, a group of 4/5 panther-like beast, you feel like you took care of the problem, you sleep in the camp and the skull arrives, immune to normal weapons (another 15 minutes fight), the fucking thing has an unlimited amount of mass fear spell/ability, this isn't even fun.

I'm all for tough encounters like the stag lord one (this one is fun and well designed) but the rest seems rushed and terribly executed, just like their shitty traveling system, their loading issues (it starts alright though, in the beginning of the game, loading time and frequencies are far better than Deadfire) and their poorly executed kingdom management.

This game is close to something real good, it just need one year more of development, a ToEE like turn-based combat system, revamped encounters, fixed loading issues, fixed kingdom management and traveling.

One year and it could have turn out to be a masterpiece, instead, it'll soon be forgotten, like BT4 is already forgotten.

 

[Sharpedge]

It's called Skyrim Syndrome. Modern gamers want to SEE ENEMY - KILL ENEMY - NO THOUGHT NEEDED. It's pretty sad and steep decline, too. Handmade, non-level scaled worlds often add tough encounters off the beaten path that you will A) die to, then hopefully B) realize you need to come back later. It's fairly simple. Any talk of the "DM got it wrong" is steep, STEEP decline. Sad.

That one was funny.

Boy, it's called the loading screen + poor traveling mechanism syndrome.
It's so painful to explore that you try to avoid to have to return to locations you already visited.

As far as i'm concerned, hard encounters is a good thing, as long as it's it looks "fair", in ToEE, you get a quest to kill the King Frog and that fight can turn to a nightmare when the giant crocodile join along with the lizardmen and their witch (in some versions you can't fight them separately, they join no matter how far you stay from them), it's fun, then again, ToEE has it's flaws but none of PK loading and traveling shenanigans.

Also, wererats with high level alchemist fire (and in such quantity) is just absurd.

There was also the spider cave early in the game where the big spider isn't even a threat but the spiderlings are immune to normal weapons and take 10 minutes to kill, was that fun ? More like a chore.

Also, the flying skull in the mite/kobold war area that appears when you sleep in the improvised camp, you're somewhat warned some monsters killed a group of adventurers and just nearby, on the top of a hill, a group of 4/5 panther-like beast, you feel like you took care of the problem, you sleep in the camp and the skull arrives, immune to normal weapons (another 15 minutes fight), the fucking thing has an unlimited amount of mass fear spell/ability, this isn't even fun.

I'm all for tough encounters like the stag lord one (this one is fun and well designed) but the rest seems rushed and terribly executed, just like their shitty traveling system, their loading issues (it starts alright though, in the beginning of the game, loading time and frequencies are far better than Deadfire) and their poorly executed kingdom management.

This game is close to something real good, it just need one year more of development, a ToEE like turn-based combat system, revamped encounters, fixed loading issues, fixed kingdom management and traveling.

One year and it could have turn out to be a masterpiece, instead, it'll soon be forgotten, like BT4 is already forgotten.

I think a simple inspecting of the enemy and realizing it is a level 13 aberration is enough to warn you off fighting the floating skull. If you want to fight it at the level you meet it, you can with resist energy and a lot of patience, but early game encounters like this are (in my opinion) placed there to condition you to the idea that sometimes it is best to come back later.

 

[Darth Canoli]

You can't even flee a battle, you're supposed to reload ?

This game isn't even poorly designed, it's not designed at all.

 

[Fedora Master]

The wererats can be disabled with one or two color sprays.
The biggest problem with them and most harder encounters in Kingmaker is that you have to know what you're going to encounter and that requires reloading at least once.

 

[Cael]

The wererats can be disabled with one or two color sprays.
The biggest problem with them and most harder encounters in Kingmaker is that you have to know what you're going to encounter and that requires reloading at least once.

Any game that requires you to use metagaming knowledge is, by definition, DECLINE.

 

[Sharpedge]

If you are playing the game on hard or unfair, the game warns you that in some cases, winning the fight may just come down to lucky dice rolls. The need to reload is downright implied in the difficulty itself:

Even so, beyond act 1, you won't be needing good dice rolls to win, even on unfair. If you are playing on anything underneath hard or unfair, you probably won't need to reload that often and even when you do, I don't really see what the problem is. Is failure such a major issue that being forced to reload is a terrible thing? If reloading is such an issue for you, play the game on story difficulty, that way you never need to worry about doing it.

 

[Darth Canoli]

The butt-hurt is strong in this thread, i was right, this is the new Bulgur's Gate.

 

[Cael]

Even so, beyond act 1, you won't be needing good dice rolls to win, even on unfair. If you are playing on anything underneath hard or unfair, you probably won't need to reload that often and even when you do, I don't really see what the problem is. Is failure such a major issue that being forced to reload is a terrible thing? If reloading is such an issue for you, play the game on story difficulty, that way you never need to worry about doing it.

Gentlemen, I think we have found the fucktard of 2019. And 2019 hasn't even arrived yet.

 

[Sharpedge]

The wererats can be disabled with one or two color sprays.
The biggest problem with them and most harder encounters in Kingmaker is that you have to know what you're going to encounter and that requires reloading at least once.

Any game that requires you to use metagaming knowledge is, by definition, DECLINE.

Yes, just like in Baldur's Gate 2, you are probably going to reload the first time you fight Kangaxx the Demilich. Such a terrible game requiring you to know that he will spam imprisonment in your general direction.

 

[Cael]

The wererats can be disabled with one or two color sprays.
The biggest problem with them and most harder encounters in Kingmaker is that you have to know what you're going to encounter and that requires reloading at least once.

Any game that requires you to use metagaming knowledge is, by definition, DECLINE.

Yes, just like in Baldur's Gate 2, you are probably going to reload the first time you fight Kangaxx the Demilich. Such a terrible game requiring you to know that he will spam imprisonment in your general direction.

You walk into a high-level mage fight without preparing for Imprisonment or insta-kill spells? You are a fucking retard, aren't you?

 

[ArchAngel]

It's called Skyrim Syndrome. Modern gamers want to SEE ENEMY - KILL ENEMY - NO THOUGHT NEEDED. It's pretty sad and steep decline, too. Handmade, non-level scaled worlds often add tough encounters off the beaten path that you will A) die to, then hopefully B) realize you need to come back later. It's fairly simple. Any talk of the "DM got it wrong" is steep, STEEP decline. Sad.

That one was funny.

Boy, it's called the loading screen + poor traveling mechanism syndrome.
It's so painful to explore that you try to avoid to have to return to locations you already visited.

As far as i'm concerned, hard encounters is a good thing, as long as it's it looks "fair", in ToEE, you get a quest to kill the King Frog and that fight can turn to a nightmare when the giant crocodile join along with the lizardmen and their witch (in some versions you can't fight them separately, they join no matter how far you stay from them), it's fun, then again, ToEE has it's flaws but none of PK loading and traveling shenanigans.

Also, wererats with high level alchemist fire (and in such quantity) is just absurd.

There was also the spider cave early in the game where the big spider isn't even a threat but the spiderlings are immune to normal weapons and take 10 minutes to kill, was that fun ? More like a chore.

Also, the flying skull in the mite/kobold war area that appears when you sleep in the improvised camp, you're somewhat warned some monsters killed a group of adventurers and just nearby, on the top of a hill, a group of 4/5 panther-like beast, you feel like you took care of the problem, you sleep in the camp and the skull arrives, immune to normal weapons (another 15 minutes fight), the fucking thing has an unlimited amount of mass fear spell/ability, this isn't even fun.

I'm all for tough encounters like the stag lord one (this one is fun and well designed) but the rest seems rushed and terribly executed, just like their shitty traveling system, their loading issues (it starts alright though, in the beginning of the game, loading time and frequencies are far better than Deadfire) and their poorly executed kingdom management.

This game is close to something real good, it just need one year more of development, a ToEE like turn-based combat system, revamped encounters, fixed loading issues, fixed kingdom management and traveling.

One year and it could have turn out to be a masterpiece, instead, it'll soon be forgotten, like BT4 is already forgotten.

I hope this is a troll post. Because otherwise I am afraid for your mental health..

 

[Sharpedge]

The wererats can be disabled with one or two color sprays.
The biggest problem with them and most harder encounters in Kingmaker is that you have to know what you're going to encounter and that requires reloading at least once.

Any game that requires you to use metagaming knowledge is, by definition, DECLINE.

Yes, just like in Baldur's Gate 2, you are probably going to reload the first time you fight Kangaxx the Demilich. Such a terrible game requiring you to know that he will spam imprisonment in your general direction.

You walk into a high-level mage fight without preparing for Imprisonment or insta-kill spells? You are a fucking retard, aren't you?

Its been at least 10 years since I last replayed that game, so my memory may be a bit foggy, but I seem to recall the fact that he was going to be hostile to you in the first place wasn't exactly something implied and instead he appeared to you in the form of someone asking for help? Anyhow, this argument goes both ways, see here. You sleep at a campfire surrounded by corpses of adventurers wearing gear that is substantially better than yours, that is conveniently available to use and you aren't expecting to be attacked by something that can kill said adventurer party? Alternatively, let us consider the rat cave. The traps outside it are DC 21 (25 on unfair) each, with the exception of the alarm which is higher (I can't remember how high, I just remember I don't believe I was able to disarm it). You need to either disarm or walk into at least 3 of them in order to reach the entrance, I say at least because you may feel like exploring and run into the other 4 or so in the area. At best you will have the following:

1. 3 of attribute from class skill.
   
2. 5 of attribute from attribute bonus.
3. 4 of attribute from skill focus.
4. 4 from level ups.
5. I think 4 from miscellaneous buffs.

Totaling to 20. If you are buffing to disarm traps, you are also probably buffing with every other buff available and are also likely capable of dealing with the wererats themselves. If you are not, that is -4, leaving you at 16. If you do not have the skill focus for trickery (or perception to detect them in the first place) which is a possibility, that leaves you at 12. You need at least a roll of 9 or higher to disable them, which is not that bad, but you are at the point where you can probably fight them anyhow. If you were not warned by the traps all over the place that there was going to be a fight ahead, then you garner no sympathy from me.

 

[Cael]

The wererats can be disabled with one or two color sprays.
The biggest problem with them and most harder encounters in Kingmaker is that you have to know what you're going to encounter and that requires reloading at least once.

Any game that requires you to use metagaming knowledge is, by definition, DECLINE.

Yes, just like in Baldur's Gate 2, you are probably going to reload the first time you fight Kangaxx the Demilich. Such a terrible game requiring you to know that he will spam imprisonment in your general direction.

You walk into a high-level mage fight without preparing for Imprisonment or insta-kill spells? You are a fucking retard, aren't you?

Its been at least 10 years since I last replayed that game, so my memory may be a bit foggy, but I seem to recall the fact that he was going to be hostile to you in the first place wasn't exactly something implied and instead he appeared to you in the form of someone asking for help? Anyhow, this argument goes both ways, see here. You sleep at a campfire surrounded by corpses of adventurers wearing gear that is substantially better than yours, that is conveniently available to use and you aren't expecting to be attacked by something that can kill said adventurer party? Alternatively, let us consider the rat cave. The traps outside it are DC 21 (25 on unfair) each, with the exception of the alarm which is higher (I can't remember how high, I just remember I don't believe I was able to disarm it). You need to either disarm or walk into at least 3 of them in order to reach the entrance, I say at least because you may feel like exploring and run into the other 4 or so in the area. At best you will have the following:

1. 3 of attribute from class skill.
   
2. 5 of attribute from attribute bonus.
3. 4 of attribute from skill focus.
4. 4 from level ups.
5. I think 4 from miscellaneous buffs.

Totaling to 20. If you are buffing to disarm traps, you are also probably buffing with every other buff available and are also likely capable of dealing with the wererats themselves. If you are not, that is -4, leaving you at 16. If you do not have the skill focus for trickery (or perception to detect them in the first place) which is a possibility, that leaves you at 12. You need at least a roll of 9 or higher to disable them, which is not that bad, but you are at the point where you can probably fight them anyhow. If you were not warned by the traps all over the place that there was going to be a fight ahead, then you garner no sympathy from me.

There is a difference between preparing for a high-level mage fight, and walking into a bunch of traps and thinking, "Hey! Wererats. WITH BOMBS!!! So let's prepare Resist Fire."

 

[Efe]

so you'd be okay with it if it was a wererat with fireballs?

 

[hell bovine]

The wererats can be disabled with one or two color sprays.
The biggest problem with them and most harder encounters in Kingmaker is that you have to know what you're going to encounter and that requires reloading at least once.

Any game that requires you to use metagaming knowledge is, by definition, DECLINE.

Yes, just like in Baldur's Gate 2, you are probably going to reload the first time you fight Kangaxx the Demilich. Such a terrible game requiring you to know that he will spam imprisonment in your general direction.

You walk into a high-level mage fight without preparing for Imprisonment or insta-kill spells? You are a fucking retard, aren't you?

Kangaxx doesn't actually cast imprisonment, which is a touch spell, but uses his own "special" version (trap the soul) which is ranged and which he can spam like there is no tomorrow. There is no spell equivalent in the game that can be cast by a mage. Then again, most enemy mages in BG2 cheat with force spell scripts, instead of casting spells, so he's in good company.

 

[Cael]

The wererats can be disabled with one or two color sprays.
The biggest problem with them and most harder encounters in Kingmaker is that you have to know what you're going to encounter and that requires reloading at least once.

Any game that requires you to use metagaming knowledge is, by definition, DECLINE.

Yes, just like in Baldur's Gate 2, you are probably going to reload the first time you fight Kangaxx the Demilich. Such a terrible game requiring you to know that he will spam imprisonment in your general direction.

You walk into a high-level mage fight without preparing for Imprisonment or insta-kill spells? You are a fucking retard, aren't you?

Kangaxx doesn't actually cast imprisonment, which is a touch spell, but uses his own "special" version (trap the soul) which is ranged and which he can spam like there is no tomorrow. There is no spell equivalent in the game that can be cast by a mage. Then again, most enemy mages in BG2 cheat with force spell scripts, instead of casting spells, so he's in good company.

They are both disabled by the anti-school spell (forgot the name), IIRC. You just set it to Abjuration, I think.

 

[Yosharian]

The wererats can be disabled with one or two color sprays.
The biggest problem with them and most harder encounters in Kingmaker is that you have to know what you're going to encounter and that requires reloading at least once.

Any game that requires you to use metagaming knowledge is, by definition, DECLINE.

Yes, just like in Baldur's Gate 2, you are probably going to reload the first time you fight Kangaxx the Demilich. Such a terrible game requiring you to know that he will spam imprisonment in your general direction.

You walk into a high-level mage fight without preparing for Imprisonment or insta-kill spells? You are a fucking retard, aren't you?

Kangaxx doesn't actually cast imprisonment, which is a touch spell, but uses his own "special" version (trap the soul) which is ranged and which he can spam like there is no tomorrow. There is no spell equivalent in the game that can be cast by a mage. Then again, most enemy mages in BG2 cheat with force spell scripts, instead of casting spells, so he's in good company.

That guy is an absolute bastard on SCS2.

 

[hell bovine]

They are both disabled by the anti-school spell (forgot the name), IIRC. You just set it to Abjuration, I think.

You'd still need to know what trap the soul is and that ability is not mentioned anywhere in the game previous to the encounter. Compare this to Aec'Letec and his gaze, which you get warned about by the ghoul in Durlag's Tower.

Yosharian
I know, vanilla combat is so boring by comparison.

 

[Raghar]

Wererats is how every encounter should have been, instead of 22 undead cyclops

Cheese hidden in their stash was an extra lolz

At least these undead cyclops are thematic. What do you expect in an Undead Cyclop lair? There was also that mage which was making J. very happy when he batched her in sunlight when he casted enervation. Sadly he was bit hostile and was obliterated with bit feeling of loss.

These encounters should allow some talks and not end always by killing all opponents.

The Cyclop lair has larger problem. Inability to return into Cyclop lair. In fact even returning to upper level probably would break some stuff.

Normally when you have rats like these, you can get info about them from nearby city. Famous rat thief guild full of fire bombs that wreaks havoc around surrounding countryside.

 

[ArchAngel]

Wererats is how every encounter should have been, instead of 22 undead cyclops

Cheese hidden in their stash was an extra lolz

At least these undead cyclops are thematic. What do you expect in an Undead Cyclop lair? There was also that mage which was making J. very happy when he batched her in sunlight when he casted enervation. Sadly he was bit hostile and was obliterated with bit feeling of loss.

These encounters should allow some talks and not end always by killing all opponents.

The Cyclop lair has larger problem. Inability to return into Cyclop lair. In fact even returning to upper level probably would break some stuff.

Normally when you have rats like these, you can get info about them from nearby city. Famous rat thief guild full of fire bombs that wreaks havoc around surrounding countryside.

Not everyone needs to be told about by locals. Not to mention there are not locals there to talk about it. Rats already exist when only civilization is Oleg's and Oleg is bullied by common bandits. Those wererats would rape both Oleg and all the bandits in the area if they left their cave.
They might as well been some ex prisoners that only picked that cave to hole up for a short while before moving on.
At best maybe in Technic camp you can find notes about escaped wererate slaves or something.

 

[Cael]

They are both disabled by the anti-school spell (forgot the name), IIRC. You just set it to Abjuration, I think.

You'd still need to know what trap the soul is and that ability is not mentioned anywhere in the game previous to the encounter. Compare this to Aec'Letec and his gaze, which you get warned about by the ghoul in Durlag's Tower.

Imprison is a high level mage spell. Expect it when you fight mages. Fire bombs is not a wererat ability. Nor is traps an exclusive wererat thing. In fact, at low levels, I'd expect kobolds, not wererats.

 

[Jenkem]

yikes what the fuck happened to this thread?

 

[Gregz]

yikes what the fuck happened to this thread?

More people are actually playing the game.

 

[Volrath]

yikes what the fuck happened to this thread?

Pillows fanboys mang, horrible creatures. Avoid them when you can.

 

[Thane Solus]

I tried to play POE again to get a semi fix of BG (probably gona play BG again). Oh my! Now i understand the trolling behind Obisidian. Endurance and health, progression, the maps, the casters, mediocre to shit. No fun allowed! BG 1 is 10 times more fun than this, on just about everything but graphicx.

Gona try this (Pathfinderz) and/or maybe Divinity One, or just play BG-EE probably for better UI...but original modded, is better...

Meh