KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Yosharian]

And how many of the population has high enough strenght to make an effective fighter, that could take on the fantasy races with far superior scores? It's not just human vs human, when an owlbear could eat half of your village barony for breakfast.

Frankly, if you'd have realism in a fantasy setting, then humanity would become extinct, because apex predators in the fantasy settings are not only stronger, but also more wise and/or intelligent. Just look how much wisdom a worg has in this game. Does it actually act like it, though? Not really; that is the "no realism" part.

You don't have have to fend off a smilodon with a sword in real life, because intelligence does trump strenght given enough time. That is why humanity is now hunting all the stronger species into extinction, and not the other way around. (where are the heroic owlbears when you need them...)

Fuck man, you give our ancestors too little credit. We used to hunt megafauna with nothing more than teamwork and pointy sticks.

Pretty sure when animals have wisdom in RPGs it’s acting as a stand-in for instinct.

Instinct is part of the Wisdom attribute. Not really a 'stand-in'.

 

[hell bovine]

Fuck man, you give our ancestors too little credit. We used to hunt megafauna with nothing more than teamwork and pointy sticks.

Pretty sure when animals have wisdom in RPGs it’s acting as a stand-in for instinct.

Yeah, but it was using these sticks & stones in an intelligent manner that got us ahead of animal predators. (Which was possible because there were no owlbears.)

There was a mod for Baldur's Gate (I think it was Tactics?) that attempted a "realistic" random encounter with a dragon. Your party arrived at a new map, a few seconds later you heard this "whoosh" sound and got a dragon breath in your face. And that's why the dragons you actually get to fight in BG are sitting on their fat lizard asses in small caverns, even though no highly intelligent beast would gimp themselves on the battlefield like that.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Wisdom governs Spot, Listen, Sense Motive and everything that has to do with the senses. A negative Wisdom modifier means that your average dog has a hearing and eyesight that is worse than an average human, which poses several logic problems.

The only logical problem I see here is that Wisdom somehow connected to senses in rules, I mean rogue, who take cleric with him on robbery of some noble manor ( for trap/secret stash finding) is very bizarre view in my opinion.

Not to mention that compared to humans, common sense is far more prevalent in the rest of the animal kingdom. Darwin Awards are given out for a reason.

It's even going more ridiculous with animals who can't see shit, but have a good hearing like cave bats and etc, because it means that this animal (non magical animal) should be wiser than dwarven priest only for flying in their caves. It doesn't have much sense for me, because wisdom is ability to act by using experience and common sense - first require time for gaining and second need collective to obtain, but more important: both of them attributes only sentient being and cave bat doesn't have much intelligence for it. Maybe I am wrong in something, but it's look like senses was given to Wisdom only because many people would gladly dump it otherwise.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Instinct is part of the Wisdom attribute. Not really a 'stand-in'.

Sorry, but it's not. At least according common knowledge gathered through thousands years. Scientific research didn't saw straight connection between wisdom and primal instincts too.

 

[Doktor Best]

So on to more important questions: How is the bug situation currently?

 

[Yosharian]

Instinct is part of the Wisdom attribute. Not really a 'stand-in'.

Sorry, but it's not. At least according common knowledge gathered through thousands years. Scientific research didn't saw straight connection between wisdom and primal instincts too.

I'm not talking about science, I'm talking about the abstract ability score in the D&D role-playing system. 'Wisdom', as an abstract concept in D&D, encompasses such things as primal instinct. It's not a stand-in, they didn't just shove it in there at the last minute. The attribute is designed to encompass that.

 

[Yosharian]

Regarding the October 22nd patch that was supposed to drop - apparently they're not doing that anymore.

Finally, there is one more thing we at Owlcat wanted to talk to you about.

Unfortunately, there is a downside to the speed with which we solve newly-found issues - to be completely honest, it doesn’t leave us enough time to test all of the game thoroughly after each fix. It takes a whole week at minimum to test every aspect of our complex game, so delivering 2-3 hotfixes each week leaves our team only enough time to check fixes locally. Still, we know this is no excuse for issues that persist in the game, as well as those that are added with some of the fixes. Every bug report we receive literally tears us apart with the feeling of guilt for not finding and solving the issue before the game went live. As such, we want to be open with all you Pathfinders, so that you understand our philosophy and our current pipeline. Right now we feel it is more important to keep fixing critical issues as quickly as possible, rather than to stop releasing hotfixes for about 2 weeks and focus on a big patch.

Once we are sure all major problems have been addressed, we will get back to a more stable, "patch-oriented" development approach.

Thank you for your patience and your support! That is what keeps us alive and kicking.

Looks like it'll be months before we get a decent big patch. Fuck this shit.

 

[Van-d-all]

As much as I can understand Owlcat's appeasement tactic of hotfix patching, it's only gradually turning the game to an ever larger fuckheap of unmanagable code.

Regarding the October 22nd patch that was supposed to drop - apparently they're not doing that anymore.

Finally, there is one more thing we at Owlcat wanted to talk to you about.

Unfortunately, there is a downside to the speed with which we solve newly-found issues - to be completely honest, it doesn’t leave us enough time to test all of the game thoroughly after each fix. It takes a whole week at minimum to test every aspect of our complex game, so delivering 2-3 hotfixes each week leaves our team only enough time to check fixes locally. Still, we know this is no excuse for issues that persist in the game, as well as those that are added with some of the fixes. Every bug report we receive literally tears us apart with the feeling of guilt for not finding and solving the issue before the game went live. As such, we want to be open with all you Pathfinders, so that you understand our philosophy and our current pipeline. Right now we feel it is more important to keep fixing critical issues as quickly as possible, rather than to stop releasing hotfixes for about 2 weeks and focus on a big patch.

Once we are sure all major problems have been addressed, we will get back to a more stable, "patch-oriented" development approach.

Thank you for your patience and your support! That is what keeps us alive and kicking.

Looks like it'll be months before we get a decent big patch. Fuck this shit.

As much as I can understand Owlcat's appeasement tactic of hotfix patching, it's gradually turning the game to an ever larger fuckheap of unmanageable code. It was fine the first few times, but now when new bus emerge, they really should stop doing this and focus on proper support and testing.

 

[Jarpie]

Wasn't that in some older hotfix, and didn't they say that the big patch should be coming next week or so in discord yesterday?

 

[panda]

Anyone knows how to get best artisan stuff btw? I think I got invitation from poe parody lore dumping chick but that is it. I ignored her since nobody in my party uses exotic stuff.

law armor? did whole quest chain, never got it
super pwn hammer? same

I think there was dev post saying that you need 10 in assotiated kingdom stat.
Here is items list, though it is quite incomplete, i got several items not listed there, like

and couple of others which i already sold.

 

[Shadenuat]

Had X in quite a few stats.

Well, all those items are p. trashy compared to what you can just buy from JRPG merchant during endgame.

 

[Reinhardt]

because apex predators in the fantasy settings are not only stronger, but also more wise and/or intelligent.

And breed like rabbits.

 

[panda]

Had X in quite a few stats.

Well, all those items are p. trashy compared to what you can just buy from JRPG merchant during endgame.

Yeah, though masterpices is alright. E.g. Bokken's potion should give +2 inherent bonus to all stats.

 

[Shadenuat]

Oh god the endgame





it is so broken. like tears in the rain broken

it also slowly corrupts your saves.

 

[Cael]

Maybe I am wrong in something, but it's look like senses was given to Wisdom only because many people would gladly dump it otherwise.

Failed a Spot Check.

 

[Haba]

Oh god the endgame

it is so broken. like tears in the rain broken

it also slowly corrupts your saves.

It is about the time an RPG took Doki Doki Literature Club kind of approach.

"Fuck your min-maxed adventurer party <playername> I shall destroy your savegames, lets see how you fare without savescumming every decision point!"

 

[hell bovine]

because apex predators in the fantasy settings are not only stronger, but also more wise and/or intelligent.

And breed like rabbits.

Lol, there was this terrible dragon movie, where the lizards take over the world by breeding and humanity is reduced to hiding in bunkers and growing tomatoes. I guess you could make a game like that: roll your heroic farmer, with strenght determining how many tomatoes you can carry and wisdom giving a bonus to fertilizer knowledge.

 

[fantadomat]

Yeah, but it was using these sticks & stones in an intelligent manner that got us ahead of animal predators.

Uhhhh no,our luck stat was over the roof. We even managed to cast Armageddon and make a huge bolder to fall from the sky,killing all the apex predators.

 

[Volourn]

Well. Looks like I got the evil bugs. I can no longer exit my kingdom. I think it has something to do with those bard troublkemakers from Pitax. I interact with them and they simply spam their silly poem. But, that's it. I am trapped. L0L

And, the Ring of Circumstances is either buggy or I am the Ring of Incompetence unable to get it work. L0L


DAMN.

 

[Cael]

Well. Looks like I got the evil bugs. I can no longer exit my kingdom. I think it has something to do with those bard troublkemakers from Pitax. I interact with them and they simply spam their silly poem. But, that's it. I am trapped. L0L

And, the Ring of Circumstances is either buggy or I am the Ring of Incompetence unable to get it work. L0L


DAMN.

Save, exit game and reload. Might work.

 

[Serus]

citation please

We already had someone in this thread who finished the game. At level 16 iirc. And reports on Steam confirms it, people finishing it around level 16~18.

 

[Incendax]

Yeah. Level 20 appears to be the realm of DLC, or parties less than 6.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I'm liking the general atmosphere and writing so far, but jesus christ the reviews saying the combat is overtuned were not wrong. I'm fucking level 2 guys, why am I running into shit with 37 ac making +23 touch attacks? Why am I in a dungeon filled with shit dealing dex damage before I have any way at all of healing that besides resting for an entire week? Why are the party members such horrible jank with feats like toughness and garbage weapons and spells? I think I've spent as much time reloading as actually playing. Fuck, even the battle at the trading post was retarded thanks to forcing me to start in open LOS from like 6 archers, I think in half my attempts someone got crit to death in the first round or two.

 

[Yosharian]

I'm liking the general atmosphere and writing so far, but jesus christ the reviews saying the combat is overtuned were not wrong. I'm fucking level 2 guys, why am I running into shit with 37 ac making +23 touch attacks? Why am I in a dungeon filled with shit dealing dex damage before I have any way at all of healing that besides resting for an entire week? Why are the party members such horrible jank with feats like toughness and garbage weapons and spells? I think I've spent as much time reloading as actually playing. Fuck, even the battle at the trading post was retarded thanks to forcing me to start in open LOS from like 6 archers, I think in half my attempts someone got crit to death in the first round or two.

Are you playing on Core Rules?

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

The outpost is OK if you 1) get Bokken to help which requires Diplomacy check and 2) make the checks to discover the traps / oil slick so the entry is trapped/oiled + set on fire by bombs from Bokken

But yes the balance in the early lvls is absolutely bananas. It becomes easier later, for instance in the middle of ch2 at lvl8 it's almost too easy.