KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Sykar]

Indeed, it is based. But here's a couple of little differences to 3.5 just when it comes to point buy:

1) Recommended values for point buy in Pathfinder range from 10 (low fantasy) to 25 (epic). The same values in dnd 3.5 range from 15 to 32. Equivalent to those 25 points epic is 32 points in 3.5.
2) Pathfinder has higher point cost of raising stats. It takes 17 points in Pathfinder to raise a stat to max 18 from starting 10, where it takes 16 points in 3.5 to raise a stat to max 18 from starting 8.

So yeah, it's kind of pointless to compare point values of characters across different game systems this directly. Especially since roll methods can and do create a huge difference in stats all the time in the same game.

Essentially confirmed what I said.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Er, no. See, not only do you get less points in Pathfinder when compared to the same level game in 3.5, but it takes more points to get high stats, even with the fact that you start with 10s.

Or was your point not that those 25 points are too much points to give?

 

[Sykar]

Er, no. See, not only do you get less points in Pathfinder when compared to the same level game in 3.5, but it takes more points to get high stats, even with the fact that you start with 10s.

Or was your point not that those 25 points are too much points to give?

Actually yes, it precisely confirms my point that 25 points in Pathfinder are a lot more than they are in other game worlds. You yourself post the very proof of this and you are still in denial.
What do I care about what happens later? This is about the very early levels and how powerful you are and you are more powerful with a 25 point build in Pathfinder than in most other D&D 3.5 worlds.

 

[Ent]

I'm pretty sure pathfinder point buy has always started at 10, right?

 

[ArchAngel]

Er, no. See, not only do you get less points in Pathfinder when compared to the same level game in 3.5, but it takes more points to get high stats, even with the fact that you start with 10s.

Or was your point not that those 25 points are too much points to give?

Actually yes, it precisely confirms my point that 25 points in Pathfinder are a lot more than they are in other game worlds. You yourself post the very proof of this and you are still in denial.
What do I care about what happens later? This is about the very early levels and how powerful you are and you are more powerful with a 25 point build in Pathfinder than in most other D&D 3.5 worlds.

And you miss the point that 25 point buy in Pathfinder is not same as 25 in D&D. Just because it says 25 it does not mean you can compare it directly. He told you it is comparable with 32 in D&D 3.5

 

[sstacks]

All this debating over point buys is one of the things that makes me happy to be a geek.

 

[Sykar]

Er, no. See, not only do you get less points in Pathfinder when compared to the same level game in 3.5, but it takes more points to get high stats, even with the fact that you start with 10s.

Or was your point not that those 25 points are too much points to give?

Actually yes, it precisely confirms my point that 25 points in Pathfinder are a lot more than they are in other game worlds. You yourself post the very proof of this and you are still in denial.
What do I care about what happens later? This is about the very early levels and how powerful you are and you are more powerful with a 25 point build in Pathfinder than in most other D&D 3.5 worlds.

And you miss the point that 25 point buy in Pathfinder is not same as 25 in D&D. Just because it says 25 it does not mean you can compare it directly. He told you it is comparable with 32 in D&D 3.5

Which was my point, genius.

 

[ArchAngel]

Er, no. See, not only do you get less points in Pathfinder when compared to the same level game in 3.5, but it takes more points to get high stats, even with the fact that you start with 10s.

Or was your point not that those 25 points are too much points to give?

Actually yes, it precisely confirms my point that 25 points in Pathfinder are a lot more than they are in other game worlds. You yourself post the very proof of this and you are still in denial.
What do I care about what happens later? This is about the very early levels and how powerful you are and you are more powerful with a 25 point build in Pathfinder than in most other D&D 3.5 worlds.

And you miss the point that 25 point buy in Pathfinder is not same as 25 in D&D. Just because it says 25 it does not mean you can compare it directly. He told you it is comparable with 32 in D&D 3.5

Which was my point, genius.

I am not even sure what is your point anymore, I just wrote that as I agree with Zero Credibility

 

[aweigh]

if it's comparable to a 32 point buy from dnd 3.5 then it's still way too high. anyway who gives a fuck it's not like we already know about the encounter design in the game, and from what i saw in the last battle in sstack's latest video enemies can easily 1-shot low-level PCs sooooo yeah

what i'm concerned about is the lack of an object highlighting button. without this the game is nigh unplayable!

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

The last time I played there were new feats like fencing grace and slashing grace added to get dex to damage on rapier and other weapons.

would anyone ever actually use a rapier and dance around like faggot poking people with a needle?

I guess the blade can get between armor, was it ever really a weapon used in battle/warfare?

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

That is the glory of 25 point buy my friend

It is in fact not 25 point-buy since standard is to start at attribute level 8, not 10. So you have to add 12 points and therefore this is in fact 37 point buy. Try to get the same stats in ToEE with the point-buy system. Good luck.

Also iirc you could set some sort of "silver star" and get another +2 to that attribute. If I am not mistaken that can add another 4-6 points to the equation, making it a 40+ point-buy system, NOT 25.

Here a possible human barbarian in TOEE by comparison:

Str 18 (16 points)
Dex 14 (6 points)
Con 11 (3 points)
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 8

Not quite as good eh? You could shave off 2 points from strength and have 6 points for the secondary attributes if you fancy but with two handed damage bonus being rounded down you go from +6 bonus damage to +4. A substantial difference especially in early game.

I do hope there is a way to make it a bit less OP and that having 18 and 19's is not required or forced on us. I guess so far this overpowered super hero character thing is the most worrying aspect of what I have seen so far. Otherwise it all looks great.

 

[Brancaleone]

The last time I played there were new feats like fencing grace and slashing grace added to get dex to damage on rapier and other weapons.

would anyone ever actually use a rapier and dance around like faggot poking people with a needle?

I guess the blade can get between armor, was it ever really a weapon used in battle/warfare?

It was, and no wonder, since the rapier is quite a beast of a sword (it's one of the heaviest and longest one-handed ones).

 

[aweigh]

most people don't know the history of the rapier or as it was originally conceived and called the "side sword", literally because it would hang by a fighter's side (instead of on the horse like a traditional war sword); it was designed to be used in the city instead of the open field and made for thrusting and quick killing so that it could quickly target and neutralize the opponent without needing room for swinging.

what is now called the "short sword" in dnd and the like is in actuality the real rapier, or epee, and along with "side sword" it was also called a "short sword" because it was a smaller version of an "arming sword" which is what dnd refers to as a "long sword".

the modern look of the rapier with the oversized guards on the hilts came later when it was adopted by upper classes and became a duelist weapon whereas previously it was used more for assassination and street fighting, situations where the word "duel" wouldn't really be accurate to use.

 

[Brancaleone]

most people don't know the history of the rapier or as it was originally conceived and called the "side sword", literally because it would hang by a fighter's side (instead of on the horse like a traditional war sword); it was designed to be used in the city instead of the open field and made for thrusting and quick killing so that it could quickly target and neutralize the opponent without needing room for swinging.

what is now called the "short sword" in dnd and the like is in actuality the real rapier, or epee, and along with "side sword" it was also called a "short sword" because it was a smaller version of an "arming sword" which is what dnd refers to as a "long sword".

the modern look of the rapier with the oversized guards on the hilts came later when it was adopted by upper classes and became a duelist weapon whereas previously it was used more for assassination and street fighting, situations where the word "duel" wouldn't really be accurate to use.

All correct, but you probably meant "smallsword" instead of "short sword".

Most d&d's visual representations of the "rapier" seem in fact quite close to a smallsword (largest rapiers can weight up to three times as much as the lightest smallswords, just to give an idea of the difference):

 

[Absinthe]

For you guys nattering about point buy, here is a point buy calculator of 3.5, PF, and 5E: https://www.myth-weavers.com/pointbuy.html

sstacks, start a new thread in the Codex Playground subforum if you're LPing this. Don't just bury it inside the Kingmaker thread.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Everyone had bows or some kind of pike or a lance back then. Trying to use a sword (big knife) against pike or a bow back then was as effective as trying to use a combat knive against some terrorist with AK today.
Focus on sword combat is a big lie holywood and tabletop gaming manufacturers are spreading.
The only time swords were used in combat is then rapier and other swords with good arm guard was invented.
It happened after invention of gunfire which made bows & pikes shit and people didn't know how to combat which is why they focused on swords for a short time. Any REAL historian will tell you that.
It's quite easy to distinguish real sword from fake sword - if it has a good arm guard then its intended to used in combat, if it doesn't - then its a fake sword invented by holywoord & tabletop gaming manufacturers

 

[Brancaleone]

It's quite easy to distinguish real sword from fake sword - if it has a good arm guard then its intended to used in combat, if it doesn't - then its a fake sword invented by holywoord & tabletop gaming manufacturers

Practically any sword which was used in conjunction with a shield (especially a handgrip shield) had little to no handguard, so no. And even many swords used by themselves outside of Europe had little to no protection for the hand. Developed hilts are mostly an European thing, since in other martial cultures cutting into your opponent's cut is preferred to parrying with the forte of your own blade.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

It's quite easy to distinguish real sword from fake sword - if it has a good arm guard then its intended to used in combat, if it doesn't - then its a fake sword invented by holywoord & tabletop gaming manufacturers

Practically any sword which was used in conjunction with a shield (especially a handgrip shield) had little to no handguard, so no. And even many swords used by themselves outside of Europe had little to no protection for the hand. Developed hilts are mostly an European thing, since in other martial cultures cutting into your opponent's cut is preferred to parrying with the forte of your own blade.

That explains how non-european countries got themselves under colonial rule of european empires for hundreds of years.

 

[Brancaleone]

It's quite easy to distinguish real sword from fake sword - if it has a good arm guard then its intended to used in combat, if it doesn't - then its a fake sword invented by holywoord & tabletop gaming manufacturers

Practically any sword which was used in conjunction with a shield (especially a handgrip shield) had little to no handguard, so no. And even many swords used by themselves outside of Europe had little to no protection for the hand. Developed hilts are mostly an European thing, since in other martial cultures cutting into your opponent's cut is preferred to parrying with the forte of your own blade.

That explains how non-european countries got themselves under colonial rule of european empires for hundreds of years.

Any REAL historian knows that the secret weapons of colonial era were yuge sword hand-guards.

 

[Alex]

Point-buy is decline. Will there be random character creation?

 

[Stokowski]

most people don't know the history of the rapier or as it was originally conceived and called the "side sword", literally because it would hang by a fighter's side (instead of on the horse like a traditional war sword); it was designed to be used in the city instead of the open field and made for thrusting and quick killing so that it could quickly target and neutralize the opponent without needing room for swinging.

This is the cor anglais, or "English horn", so called because it is neither English, nor a horn. Not to be confused with the French Horn, which is, of course, German.

 

[sstacks]

sstacks, start a new thread in the Codex Playground subforum if you're LPing this. Don't just bury it inside the Kingmaker thread.

I post everything in a thread Infinitron created a while back for me:
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/shane-plays-lps-and-interviews.104816/

 

[Zero Credibility]

Does anyone know if alternate racial traits are going to be in? I love those.

 

[Absinthe]

I post everything in a thread Infinitron created a while back for me:
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/shane-plays-lps-and-interviews.104816/

I'd recommend you just start a new thread for the individual LP in the Playground if you want it to draw attention. You're LPing an alpha, so it'd probably interest a lot more people than whoever lurks the Kingmaker thread or whoever lurks your general LP/interview channel thread.

 

[sstacks]

I post everything in a thread Infinitron created a while back for me:
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/shane-plays-lps-and-interviews.104816/

I'd recommend you just start a new thread for the individual LP in the Playground if you want it to draw attention. You're LPing an alpha, so it'd probably interest a lot more people than whoever lurks the Kingmaker thread or whoever lurks your general LP/interview channel thread.

I'm fine doing that but always assumed Infinitron preferred me to keep my stuff in the thread he created. If he's cool with it, I'm cool with it