Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[InD_ImaginE]

Not sure why you are surprised about this she is a typical Bioware companion that the absolute majority players are fans of those.

I would argue that Bioware characters have a more... what is the correct word? Cohesion? As in the characters are tonally consistent. My biggest problem with Arue is how her character shifts tonally from the Main Quest to her companion interaction.

There are probably worse characters than her in Bioware games but I feel they still have better consistencies.

 

[Ghulgothas]

There is one valuable asset that was definitely overpriced for what he could offer. More than that - his personal quest was confusing and not engaging enough. We are talking about Greybor.

For what he could offer he cost a tad too much and was, mechanically, a worse choice than a mercenary. This issue has an easy fix - just cut his cost by half and now he is a fair-priced mercenary (if there is such a thing).

Another problem was his personal quests. There were some inconsistencies in his quest, some confusing descriptions. Overall, it caused a lot of frustration. At the moment we are reworking and tweaking it, so it will be an interesting and exciting adventure.

The re-write will be appreciated, but the change in his hiring price feels like a mistake. Wasn't Greybor's big problem in the alpha was that he was critically unoptimized and built wierdly?

 

[Shinros]

I find this to be.... surprising. Not Daeran and Cam and Ember. They have their appeal.

Arue is IMO one of the worst execution wise out of all the companion due to the fact that her character theme (demon looking for redemption) kinda clashes with the obvious waifu-baiting writing in her companion dialogue/quest. Now both of them can be with each other you know? The problem is her writing as presented in non-companion quest interaction (as in Main Story for her introduction and when you bring her to quests) is one of tragic character but the tone of her companion dialogue/quest is one of bulby demon learning to be mortal and learning of true love (from you!) which kinda make a mood whiplash in regards to her whole character.

Arue is pure waifu bait, her dialogue reeks of it people are really into that. But I agree, that it's not surprising that Daeran, Camellia and Ember are popular.

I expect wenduag to shoot up in popularity when people get to her romance, especially from what I have seen. She's going to be a Trojan horse.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

Nice update, didn't play the alpha but that top companion list smells of simpery.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Arue is pure waifu bait, her dialogue reeks of it people are really into that.

Honestly, it would be better if they just go full waifu bait with her. Right now I feel like the companion you bring to the party and the companion you talk within the city is written by 2 different people. Or 1.5 different people.

Other companion doesn't really have this issue where their tone is widely different between normal content and companion related content.

 

[CaesarCzech]

Arue is pure waifu bait, her dialogue reeks of it people are really into that.

Honestly, it would be better if they just go full waifu bait with her. Right now I feel like the companion you bring to the party and the companion you talk within the city is written by 2 different people. Or 1.5 different people.

Other companion doesn't really have this issue where their tone is widely different between normal content and companion related content.

If they wanted Waifu bait they should have progresively increase it as you progress throught quests etc, she starts out with tragic theme and as she progresses throught her redemption her themes LIGHTEN UP so to speak, voila you have both and you have it in thematic and consistent manner.

 

[Ghulgothas]

I expect wenduag to shoot up in popularity when people get to her romance, especially from what I have seen. She's going to be a Trojan horse.

That's gonna start whenever they release her official portrait. Goin' from her Alpha model it looks like they're plucking off all her undesirable insect-bits as to make her into a Cheetah-esque Tigerwoman.

 

[Shinros]

That's gonna start whenever they release her official portrait. Goin' from her Alpha model it looks like they're plucking off all her undesirable insect-bits as to make her into a Cheetah-esque Tigerwoman.

I think she's going to get a facelift like Lann as you said, personally I don't like her all that much until I saw how she can change.

 

[purpleblob]

Pretty surprised Regill wasn't in the most popular list. He's definitely my most favourite.

Not surprising though most of romance options are post popular.

 

[Lacrymas]

I'd have preferred Graybor stay expensive, but get a better build than a mercenary can. That might make him a no-brained in every party, though. Also, no waifus please, let them be as monstrous as possible.

 

[Yosharian]

I'd have preferred Graybor stay expensive, but get a better build than a mercenary can. That might make him a no-brained in every party, though

Story NPCs SHOULD be no-brainers, mechanically.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Story NPCs SHOULD be no-brainers, mechanically.

Could you please delineate?

 

[Lawntoilet]

The re-write will be appreciated, but the change in his hiring price feels like a mistake. Wasn't Greybor's big problem in the alpha was that he was critically unoptimized and built wierdly?

He had 2 completely wasted feats (Finesse feats, but his Str is higher than his Dex). Slayer is a good class so he was still usable but worse than a Slayer merc could be (and way pricier).
He also doesn't have a lot of story in the Alpha.

 

[Yosharian]

The re-write will be appreciated, but the change in his hiring price feels like a mistake. Wasn't Greybor's big problem in the alpha was that he was critically unoptimized and built wierdly?

He had 2 completely wasted feats (Finesse feats, but his Str is higher than his Dex). Slayer is a good class so he was still usable but worse than a Slayer merc could be (and way pricier).
He also doesn't have a lot of story in the Alpha.

Dear god...

I hope this isn't indicative of Owlcat's intentions with story NPCs, I had just about enough of their shitty builds in Kingmaker. Just give us full control of NPC builds already for fuck's sake.

 

[Efe]

its enough if they dont pick very specifiic feats/stats that force your hand to a single build.
imho companions should have better total stats but not necessarily better than a merc built with a single purpose.

val has unnecessary charisma and con that let many here enjoy her as kineticist and sorceror.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

I hope this isn't indicative of Owlcat's intentions with story NPCs, I had just about enough of their shitty builds in Kingmaker.

I mean besides not being hyper-optimized, KM companion was fine.

And the companion usually has higher point buy to offset their not so optimized Ability Scores.

In WoR the PC with 25 point buy is actually the lowest out of all the companions.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Well, apparently table toppers are not that great at explaining. OK.

In my opinion, companions should never be better that specialized mercs and should be worse than them in general. On one hand, the companion's stats should reflect their personality and not optimization (Pallegina in the first Pillars is great example of that). On the other hand, playing with companion only party should be a challenge that increases difficulty by at least half a level - so the player will have to choose between interestring stories and characters and optimized efficient mutes. There can be exceptions, like Ekundayo and probably Jubilost, but those should be exceptions and not the rule.

Honestly, the personality of Ekundayo, his life story and ideal stats for his class make him too close to a good mercenary. Which is the part of his story, and it is great storytelling through gameplay by the developers - but sometimes he becomes boring.

 

[Yosharian]

its enough if they dont pick very specifiic feats/stats that force your hand to a single build.
imho companions should have better total stats but not necessarily better than a merc built with a single purpose.

val has unnecessary charisma and con that let many here enjoy her as kineticist and sorceror.

Yes cos it's totally her CHA and CON, which are easily altered in seconds using BoT, that are the issue, and not her starting feats and choice of starting class.

Come on.

Just allow full respec (aside from race, obviously) as an option in the difficulty menu, problem solved wow that was hard.

 

[Trashos]

Huh?
Val's CON is super helpful for a simple tank. Not as helpful as not being killable in higher difficulties (like Jaethal is) or having Mirror Image, but it is the next best thing.
Val's CHA is both relevant to her potential role as a Regent, and for intimidating with Dazzling Display.

Higher difficulties change a lot of things and force players to be creative, but statwise Val is a pretty good tank for Normal/Challenging difficulties, and even for the difficult early game of Hard/Unfair.

I generally agree that companions should not be perfect builds. You want a perfect build, you have to work for it.

 

[LannTheStupid]

You want a perfect build, you have to work for it.

I'd say "you have to sacrifice for it". Changing Valerie to a STR sword saint with corresponding stats totally erases her personality, her quest, and her story. The same is true for other companions. I am strongly against full respec options in the game, and the respec itself should change the difficulty as in Kingmaker.

Mods, on the other hand, are completely different matter. If a person knows the game to the point where he is not interested in companions then mod the game. Or if a player wants to rob himself from the game experience - it's on him as well.

 

[NJClaw]

Just allow full respec (aside from race, obviously) as an option in the difficulty menu, problem solved wow that was hard.

We are talking about Owlcat.

Something like this would probably break the entire game. It's not unreasonable to think that Linzi ABSOLUTELY needs Extra Performance in order for Power Attack to work as intended on other characters.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

Well, apparently table toppers are not that great at explaining. OK.

In my opinion, companions should never be better that specialized mercs and should be worse than them in general. On one hand, the companion's stats should reflect their personality and not optimization (Pallegina in the first Pillars is great example of that). On the other hand, playing with companion only party should be a challenge that increases difficulty by at least half a level - so the player will have to choose between interestring stories and characters and optimized efficient mutes. There can be exceptions, like Ekundayo and probably Jubilost, but those should be exceptions and not the rule.

Honestly, the personality of Ekundayo, his life story and ideal stats for his class make him too close to a good mercenary. Which is the part of his story, and it is great storytelling through gameplay by the developers - but sometimes he becomes boring.

I love that both how Ekunduyo destroying everything and how Amiri gets demolished by most monsters after bragging on how she can solo them is fitting for both their stories and character.

 

[Yosharian]

Huh?
Val's CON is super helpful for a simple tank. Not as helpful as not being killable in higher difficulties (like Jaethal is) or having Mirror Image, but it is the next best thing.
Val's CHA is both relevant to her potential role as a Regent, and for intimidating with Dazzling Display.

Higher difficulties change a lot of things and force players to be creative, but statwise Val is a pretty good tank for Normal/Challenging difficulties, and even for the difficult early game of Hard/Unfair.

I generally agree that companions should not be perfect builds. You want a perfect build, you have to work for it.

But I wasn't asking for perfect builds.

Companions just need something unique to elevate them above standard mercs. For example a ranger could have a unique pet, or a Paladin could have a unique spell, or something like that.

Jaethal is a perfect example of how to build a unique character, too bad she's not a CHA-based spellcaster though.

What I am asking for is competently-chosen feats, and at least above average subclass choices. Finesse feats on a STR character? Come on.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I think Pallegina's might and her struggle with the Paladin training gives more to her character than the fact she's a unique godlike with (potentially) cloaka.

But jedem das Seine, sure.

 

[Trashos]

a Paladin could have a unique spell

This I like, and I miss no opportunity to recommend it left and right. I am mostly thinking about abilities that shed light on the companion's personality, and maybe even provide with some QoL. I am always thinking of Mazzy from BG2 as an example, who is a fighter with Lay on Hands and Invoke Courage.

Finesse feats on a STR character?

That does sound weird, I agree. I do not know whether they have a specific weapon in mind for that companion, however. (maybe strong enough for the armor, and finesse for the weapon? I do not know, I have not seen the companion or what options there are.)