Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Yosharian]

Demon Aspect bonuses provide passive bonuses even if they are not activated? This is confusing. I have a STR bonus from Vavakia even though I don't have it activated?

The Balor form grants the Vorpal effect which shows up as a blank white square in your character's buff icon list. Owlcat you are a fucking joke.

CRPGBro's video showed the Marilith form getting 2H bonuses to its Longsword attacks but now it only seems to get 1H bonuses.

These demonic forms are just badly designed and really underwhelming, like really the endgame mythic demon forms use +1 weapons? The Balor's whip is just called 'Flaming +1' with a space in the middle where the word 'whip' should be?

This is just retarded.

 

[Daidre]

What the fuck? Demon spells automatically use CHA and will not use any other mental stat?

No they aren't. There is ancient visual bug for some spellbooks, but it doesn't affect actual spellcasting.

Demon Aspect bonuses provide passive bonuses even if they are not activated? This is confusing. I have a STR bonus from Vavakia even though I don't have it activated?

Yes, passive bonuses from Minor and Major aspects are always on. There was discussion about it couple dozen pages ago.

The Balor form grants the Vorpal effect which shows up as a blank white square in your character's buff icon list. Owlcat you are a fucking joke.

It is indeed bugged for players and real Balors both. Afaik guy who made TT Tweaks needed to implement it from scratch in one of his components.

 

[Grunker]

Barring the annoyance that my mounted pouncer can't surprise charge half the time due to glitches (after charging she halts halfway to the target and begins the fight in a surprise round with a standard action unable to charge), it is severely crippling that she often doesn't get the Spirited Charge x2 bonus.

 

[Yosharian]

What the fuck? Demon spells automatically use CHA and will not use any other mental stat?

No they aren't. There is ancient visual bug for some spellbooks, but it doesn't affect actual spellcasting.

Demon Aspect bonuses provide passive bonuses even if they are not activated? This is confusing. I have a STR bonus from Vavakia even though I don't have it activated?

Yes, passive bonuses from Minor and Major aspects are always on. There was discussion about it couple dozen pages ago.

The Balor form grants the Vorpal effect which shows up as a blank white square in your character's buff icon list. Owlcat you are a fucking joke.

It is indeed bugged for players and real Balors both. Afaik guy who made TT Tweaks needed to implement it from scratch in one of his components.

Ah thank god about the CHA thing. So it just uses your highest mental stat?

Jesus christ I can't believe you get those benefits passively. That's huge. What does activating them even do, then?

Hmm OK well I'm gonna have to think about this, not sure if I want to go the shapeshifter route given how weak the Marilith/Balor forms are. +14 STR from the Balor form is pretty powerful but what's the point if he's one-handing his fucking weapon. Sigh.

 

[Grunker]

Haplo you seem to have much experience with mounted combat. Why am I not getting the bonus? It doesn't matter on which conditions I charge - the feat is completely useless.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Barring the annoyance that my mounted pouncer can't surprise charge half the time due to glitches (after charging she halts halfway to the target and begins the fight in a surprise round with a standard action unable to charge), it is severely crippling that she often doesn't get the Spirited Charge x2 bonus.

That shit was working (most of the time...) at release...

 

[Yosharian]

Ok so I figured it out. This Marilith form gets iteratives. Those are the ones that get the 2H benefits. Then it has a bunch of extra Longsword attacks that are just counted as 1H.

 

[Daidre]

Ah thank god about the CHA thing. So it just uses your highest mental stat?

Jesus christ I can't believe you get those benefits passively. That's huge. What does activating them even do, then?

It does not use any mental stat, only your MR. Mythic spellbook was using highest mental stat in the beta, but they changed it to MR and that is how it stayed, afaik.
You can only apply limited number of Aspects to your Demonic Rage, so it an only Rage-specific parts of the Aspects that are changed on the ability panel.

Barring the annoyance that my mounted pouncer can't surprise charge half the time due to glitches (after charging she halts halfway to the target and begins the fight in a surprise round with a standard action unable to charge), it is severely crippling that she often doesn't get the Spirited Charge x2 bonus.

Owlcat fixed Spirited Charge recently so now only first attack gets x2 multiplier, if you Charge with pounce. Here discussion.
There is rule that you get Standard action in surprise round if you WIN initiative roll, while your enemies get none, they skip their turn. Maybe that is what is happening to you?

 

[Grunker]

Ah thank god about the CHA thing. So it just uses your highest mental stat?

Jesus christ I can't believe you get those benefits passively. That's huge. What does activating them even do, then?

It does not use any mental stat, only your MR. Mythic spellbook was using highest mental stat in the beta, but they changed it to MR and that is how it stayed, afaik.
You can only apply limited number of Aspects to your Demonic Rage, so it an only Rage-specific parts of the Aspects that are changed on the ability panel.

Barring the annoyance that my mounted pouncer can't surprise charge half the time due to glitches (after charging she halts halfway to the target and begins the fight in a surprise round with a standard action unable to charge), it is severely crippling that she often doesn't get the Spirited Charge x2 bonus.

Owlcat fixed Spirited Charge recently so now only first attack gets x2 multiplier, if you Charge with pounce. Here discussion.
There is rule that you get Standard action in surprise round if you WIN initiative roll, while your enemies get none, they skip their turn. Maybe that is what is happening to you?

You misunderstand. *No* attacks are getting the x2 modifier.

 

[Yosharian]

It does not use any mental stat, only your MR. Mythic spellbook was using highest mental stat in the beta, but they changed it to MR and that is how it stayed, afaik.
You can only apply limited number of Aspects to your Demonic Rage, so it an only Rage-specific parts of the Aspects that are changed on the ability panel.

Ahh I see.

 

[Jaedar]

There is rule that you get Standard action in surprise round if you WIN initiative roll, while your enemies get none, they skip their turn. Maybe that is what is happening to you?

You're supposed to finish the action you start with though. So if you charge with vulpine pounce before the enemies notice you, you get a full attack off (and then no other action in the surprise round). It's weird if mounted charge works differently, but I guess the game is messing up somehow and counting the mount as getting to complete the charge, while the mounter only gets standard.

 

[Yosharian]

There's often bugs with surprise rounds. I win initiative sometimes in my tests and yet still the enemy goes before me

 

[Daidre]

You misunderstand. *No* attacks are getting the x2 modifier.

Maybe you charge outside of combat? Implementation is a bit weird in this case - if you use Charge ability that belongs to the mount then Charge "buff" with all bonuses will be applied only to the animal, not to it's rider. But Mounted Character's Charge is applied to both of them.

It's weird if mounted charge works differently, but I guess the game is messing up somehow and counting the mount as getting to complete the charge, while the mounter only gets standard.

I've encountered similar behavior when two charging characters are opening TB fight with Charge out of combat - only one of then will complete the charge and second will be stopped mid-way because simultaneous action is no-no in TB.
Add to it some archer in the party who is set to attack enemy from the paused state, for example, and he could be the first to start TB combat, stopping BOTH chargers mid-action and pushing them down initiative query (Happened all the time with ranged Vital Strike for me with it's uber-short animation).

 

[Grunker]

I am using the Charge from Arushaelae. I have tried both inside and outside combat.

 

[Humbaba]

Trickster path so far is extremely cringe but I'll reserve judgement until I get further into the path. I also thought Azata was fairly cringe but it grew on me and the CG guerilla clearing out entire areas was really cool. Having said that, apparently Trickster can just alter reality and do whatever the fuck as long as it is funny to someone and I wonder how far that's gonna go. Though I don't think I'll ever get used to Socothbenoth sexually harassing me, so I won't feel sorry in the slightest once my bugs eat him alive.

Mechanically speaking, Trickster is great for a sneak attackers/skill monkeys like vivisectionist. Don't know though how good it is for other types of classes, it seems highly specialised for the rogueish kind. Lich was similar in that way but for casters or gishes.

 

[Yosharian]

Does anyone have a Demon save file outside the Threshold dungeon? I need one to do some testing for this Shapeshifter build

Anyone?

 

[Grunker]

Any tips for dealing with Ancient Blighted Treant with a low caster party (i.e. can't just spam fire spells)?

 

[Longes]

Trickster path so far is extremely cringe but I'll reserve judgement until I get further into the path. I also thought Azata was fairly cringe but it grew on me and the CG guerilla clearing out entire areas was really cool. Having said that, apparently Trickster can just alter reality and do whatever the fuck as long as it is funny to someone and I wonder how far that's gonna go. Though I don't think I'll ever get used to Socothbenoth sexually harassing me, so I won't feel sorry in the slightest once my bugs eat him alive.

Mechanically speaking, Trickster is great for a sneak attackers/skill monkeys like vivisectionist. Don't know though how good it is for other types of classes, it seems highly specialised for the rogueish kind. Lich was similar in that way but for casters or gishes.

Trickster is good for everyone. It's better for some builds, but everyone gets something out of Trickster. At worst you can just take Perception for more feats and uber-companions.

In terms of writing, it's not a comedy so much as it is a farce. Trickster is Mask funny, not ha ha funny. Which ends up being a mixed bag on top of the sparse number of Trickster options to begin with.

 

[Haplo]

Ah thank god about the CHA thing. So it just uses your highest mental stat?

Jesus christ I can't believe you get those benefits passively. That's huge. What does activating them even do, then?

It does not use any mental stat, only your MR. Mythic spellbook was using highest mental stat in the beta, but they changed it to MR and that is how it stayed, afaik.
You can only apply limited number of Aspects to your Demonic Rage, so it an only Rage-specific parts of the Aspects that are changed on the ability panel.

Barring the annoyance that my mounted pouncer can't surprise charge half the time due to glitches (after charging she halts halfway to the target and begins the fight in a surprise round with a standard action unable to charge), it is severely crippling that she often doesn't get the Spirited Charge x2 bonus.

Owlcat fixed Spirited Charge recently so now only first attack gets x2 multiplier, if you Charge with pounce. Here discussion.
There is rule that you get Standard action in surprise round if you WIN initiative roll, while your enemies get none, they skip their turn. Maybe that is what is happening to you?

You misunderstand. *No* attacks are getting the x2 modifier.

Well, that's depressing. Did the Devs mess it again? Like Dairdre wrote, sometimes the game recognizes the mount charges, but doesn't calculate rider's attack as charge.

What might be worth testing is attack reach. If you're using a reach weapon - try with a normal one - and vice versa if you don't.

In general I've always had best Charge success rates with Medium sized mounts.

 

[Daidre]

Hm, tested the Spirited Charge in mod-clear game, it is basic version without Pounce, but it seem to work ok:

Spoiler

Owlcat fixed it at last so now it properly applies x2 modifier instead of creating separate Piercing attack.
And that is how her crit looks like:

Spoiler

There are could be a thousand of extra conditions that mess with it (like different pet/rider's pounce combos), of course, but it does not look broken to me.

 

[Grunker]

Not using a reach weapon, no. And no mods that integrere with it. Guess I’ll test some more

 

[Kjaska]

Wenduag just suggested we put some rando child cleric into a bubble of furs and let him slowcook, while describing his agony in detail - which was just the culmination of a series of such suggestions...

I don't remember that, but it's probably a cleric of an evil god right? Turnabout is fair play.

No, quite the opposite. It's the poor cleric kid in the Temple of the Good Hunt. Her justification is his "betrayal", but that's not really the point, the point is how comically explicit it is. This game has a real fetish for explicit evil. It's like it thinks that the more explicit some act is, the more it succeeds in depicting evil. I don't mind it most of the time, it's a game about demons so hey, you know, it's got a Book of Vile Darkness vibe which is fun in the kitsch sort of way. But with the companions it's a little comical

That interaction is revealed to be insincere later on and is hinted as such even during it IMO. Basically a bad cop routine.

 

[Longes]

Wenduag just suggested we put some rando child cleric into a bubble of furs and let him slowcook, while describing his agony in detail - which was just the culmination of a series of such suggestions...

I don't remember that, but it's probably a cleric of an evil god right? Turnabout is fair play.

No, quite the opposite. It's the poor cleric kid in the Temple of the Good Hunt. Her justification is his "betrayal", but that's not really the point, the point is how comically explicit it is. This game has a real fetish for explicit evil. It's like it thinks that the more explicit some act is, the more it succeeds in depicting evil. I don't mind it most of the time, it's a game about demons so hey, you know, it's got a Book of Vile Darkness vibe which is fun in the kitsch sort of way. But with the companions it's a little comical

That interaction is revealed to be insincere later on and is hinted as such even during it IMO. Basically a bad cop routine.

I don't think so. If you are romancing Wenduag, she brings up tormenting Kyado as one of the good times you've had together.

That said. Wenduag is really obviously performing a macho, because she grew up in a toxic environment and can't see past the "might makes right" framework. She's very insecure, she's kind of afraid of the unfamiliar environment, so she hypercompensates with "mwahaha" evil gloating, bullying, and violence. While Lann deals with similar issues by basically being suicidal. There's a reason Wenduag's events in Drezen are all things where Wenduag breaks social norms and terrified of looking stupid tries to murder everyone involved (tavern fight, One-Eyed Devil's dagger). And why she hates you if you make her look stupid in response to that.

 

[IllusiveBrian]

Because of that charge surprise round bug I don't ever charge with my mounted characters to open (seems to usually work OK with non-mounted). If I want to charge with them I'll open with something else and if the surprise round doesn't let them charge just pause, turn turn based off and on again and it will give them a move action.

 

[Daidre]

Wenduag is really obviously performing a macho, because she grew up in a toxic environment and can't see past the "might makes right" framework

Except there were no such cruelty in the environment where she actually grew up - mongrels are a tight knit community that puts extreme value on the family bonds and on communal responsibility. Many of them are completely enamored with the stories of crusades and all that duty + honor luggage that comes with it. So the "natural" inclination would be to protect non-combatants of the tribe, not to spit on them.

Still, she is not typical mongrel due to hers chance meeting with Hosilla, who fed Wenduag some demonic rage and made a good little minion out of her. Still, she willingly accepted cultist's philosophy, betrayed her own tribe and was proud to set up similar "accidents" for the promising younglings.

In short, I do not agree that it is environment's fault that Wenduag is dumb, cowardly and selfish bug-girl.