Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Desiderius]

What's the difference between level drain or just them DPSing you through any other kind attack, even if it's touch?

What other monster can use their regular attack to completely ignore your armor AC bonus and kill your dedicated full tank in 2 (almost guaranteed) hits?

What other monster requires you to immediately go back to a safe space and rest even if they hit you just once, and you have literally no way to heal it yourself, because unlike simply missing 5 HP after a normal monster's attack, even a single negative level is a huge deal when you're level 3?

Seelah isn’t the best tank in the first place (which is one reason the Mount is so good), this isn’t an MMO so tank and spank isn’t really ideal in any case (though you can use a tank effectively in some cases, just not all), and even if you like to use a tank the best tank changes depending on the foe, as in this fight.

This is a good thing. Seriously don’t get the lust for faceroll.

 

[Desiderius]

I must be remembering the beginning of the game wrong; I thought the shadows did STR damage and the wights in the basement (Pitaxian wine cellar) were the ones that did negative level damage?

There’s one Wight there that does. The Cairn Wights don’t.

 

[Lambach]

If your Sorc has Glitterdust I think that works on Undead. Oh wait Sorc doesn’t hit second level spells until lvl 4. Another reason to go Wiz.

More like "another reason to skip some bullshit encounter designed by a lobotomite so my Sorcerer can drown in pussy 12 shared casts per day of the best Spells at any given level at will, as well as making up Metamagic Spells on the fly".

I must be remembering the beginning of the game wrong; I thought the shadows did STR damage and the wights in the basement (Pitaxian wine cellar) were the ones that did negative level damage?

I've been at that point about 2 weeks ago and I distinctly remember silently screaming "these motherfucking ghosts are actually fucking Level Draining me what the FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK"

 

[ga♥]

Lambach you can ress your MC if you are quick and using a scroll (no spell).
Don't know if it's intended or a bug.

 

[Desiderius]

What's the difference between level drain or just them DPSing you through any other kind attack, even if it's touch?

What other monster can use their regular attack to completely ignore your armor AC bonus and kill your dedicated full tank in 2 (almost guaranteed) hits?

What other monster requires you to immediately go back to a safe space and rest even if they hit you just once, and you have literally no way to heal it yourself, because unlike simply missing 5 HP after a normal monster's attack, even a single negative level is a huge deal when you're level 3?

Why are you fighting them at level 3 lol? Threat management is a big part of these games. Especially as a Sorc you’d want to hold off until you have your lvl 2 spells at least. Seelah picks up Veil of Positive Energy then (also the one vs Outsiders which is really good).

You get your big chunks of EXP from quests. Work on those before autistically clearing maps.

 

[ga♥]

Btw I had enough money to buy death ward scrolls in chapter 1. Also IIRC if you immediatly kill Kaleysa or whatever the backer quest npc name is, you get a death ward scroll (and a +3 bow too) from the guy sho asked you to kill her.

 

[Desiderius]

Btw I had enough money to buy death ward scrolls in chapter 1. Also IIRC if you immediatly kill Kaleysa or whatever the backer quest npc name is, you get a death ward scroll from the guy sho asked you to kill her.

And a +3 Bow for Lann lol.

 

[Lambach]

Why are you fighting them at level 3 lol?

I don't know, motherfucker, maybe because I was following the Quests Owlcat were telling me to follow and it was my first, blind playthrough so I didn't have a tiny Desideruis Fairy hovering above my shoulder and giving me sage advice?

I was exploring the areas that Owlcat explicitly told me to me to explore via Quest exposition and I ran into an encounter that had literally no business whatsoever being where it was at that point in the game.

Why in the ever-loving fuck are you so zealous about defending indefensible, bullshit, lazy, poor, idiotic design choices like that Marketplace encounter?

 

[ga♥]

You ever wonder why no other D&D-inspired CRPG ever threw Level Drain at you at level 3? Because that shit is just terminally retarded, and it seems everyone except Owlcat and you guys knows it.

Shadows, Nabassu and the wights in the cellars are all optional encounters, you don't have to fight them, so no one is throwing anything at you.
In my first blind playthrough I left the shadows there and went back when I was level 5 simply because I couldn't handle them (I also didn't have Finnean with ghost touch because I went first to the market place).

 

[Lambach]

Shadows, Nabassu and the wights in the cellars are all optional encounters, you don't have to fight them, so no one is throwing anything at you.

Give me one (1) example of a similar optional encounter in any other D&D-based CRPG, i.e. one where it's literally mathematically impossible for you to have the right tools to deal with it at that point in the game.

 

[ga♥]

Shadows, Nabassu and the wights in the cellars are all optional encounters, you don't have to fight them, so no one is throwing anything at you.

Give me one (1) example of a similar optional encounter in any other D&D-based CRPG, i.e. one where it's literally mathematically impossible for you to have the right tools to deal with it at that point in the game.

Sure, BG1, if you stumble at the basilisk map at lvl1 you are dead. You get Korax but thats not enough to handle all basilisks.

 

[Lambach]

Sure, BG1, if you stumble at the basilisk map at lvl1 you are dead.

Oh yeah?

 

[ga♥]

Sure, BG1, if you stumble at the basilisk map at lvl1 you are dead.

Oh yeah?

You mean like buying the death ward scrolls, and lesser restoration scrolls/potions at the tavern...?

 

[Lambach]

Granted, it's not exactly a popular choice and most people won't pick it so early, but you do have the tool to counter the Basilisk as early as level one.

Now find me an equivalent to counter Level Drain in WotR at level 1.

 

[ga♥]

Granted, it's not exactly a popular choice and most people won't pick it so early, but you do have the tool to counter the Basilisk as early as level one.

Now find me an equivalent to counter Level Drain in WotR at level 1.

First of all, the protection from petrification will just make you immune to the basilisk gaze, not actually hit it at level1. So moot point. You still have to postpone for later like shadows/nabassu (the shadows can be done at level 3 with the right party and metagame knowledge).
Now, the death ward scroll is 700 gold each IIRC, and last 30 mins (probably a bug). So what is the difference? You can have that amount by level 3.

 

[Desiderius]

Now it’s lvl one lol.

Ok, troll, that’s enough food for you.

 

[Lambach]

You mean like buying the death ward scrolls, and lesser restoration scrolls/potions at the tavern...?

No, I mean like literally being able to pick it at level one at character creation without buying scrolls. And even if you do buy a scroll, it's a Level 1 spell, so you can scribe it, put in your Spellbook and then you can prepare it whenever as early as Level 1.

"Death Ward" that protects you from Level Drain is a Level 4 Divine Spell. If you're an Arcane caster, you can't Scribe it no matter what, you can only rely on using Scrolls that are, at that very early point in the game, extremely expensive. And if you're a Divine Caster, you can't Scribe scrolls to begin with, so you'll have to wait until you're level 7 at least.

Stop fucking defending indefensible, brain-dead, bullshit design choices. Stop it. What the fuck is the matter with you people? Stop it.

 

[ga♥]

You mean like buying the death ward scrolls, and lesser restoration scrolls/potions at the tavern...?

No, I mean like literally being able to pick it at level one at character creation without buying scrolls. And even if you do buy a scroll, it's a Level 1 spell, so you can scribe it, put in your Spellbook and then you can prepare it whenever as early as Level 1.

"Death Ward" that protects you from Level Drain is a Level 4 Divine Spell. If you're an Arcane caster, you can't Scribe it no matter what, you can only rely on using Scrolls that are, at that very early point in the game, extremely expensive. And if you're a Divine Caster, you can't Scribe scrolls to begin with, so you'll have to wait until you're level 7 at least.

Stop fucking defending indefensible, brain-dead, bullshit design choices. Stop it. What the fuck is the matter with you people? Stop it.

I mean, I don't understand why the fact that you can't use a learned spell and have to use a scroll/wand/potion/we makes it a bad encounter.

The only thing I could agree (a little bit) with you is about the shadow's location since they are in the middle of the map it could be hard to understand they are optional.

Protection of petrification in bg1 at level 1 means you have at most 2 casts of it per rest, if you are a specialist. So doesn't protect you either, so need scrolls too, or multiple mages, which is probably not the case at that point of the game, and as I said, at level 3 you can hit the shadows, at level 1 you can't hit the basilisks unless you get a 20.

 

[Shadenuat]

Granted, it's not exactly a popular choice and most people won't pick it so early, but you do have the tool to counter the Basilisk as early as level one

https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Vampiric_Wolf

 

[Sarathiour]

There is plenty of poor design decison and bad encounter in the game, but shadow and the red dragon ain't one.

 

[Stoned Ape]

I must be remembering the beginning of the game wrong; I thought the shadows did STR damage and the wights in the basement (Pitaxian wine cellar) were the ones that did negative level damage?

I've been at that point about 2 weeks ago and I distinctly remember silently screaming "these motherfucking ghosts are actually fucking Level Draining me what the FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK"

I remember not enjoying the shadows the first time I played that map, too. I was running a Sage Sorcerer then, and I didn't have anything in my spell book to really help the situation.

Subsequently I've not had a problem with them, though. I think Sorcerer is a pretty difficult class to play through in the early game; getting spells a level later really hurts them at low level compared to Wizards.

They must have patched in the level drain recently for some reason, I'm pretty sure I only had to deal with STR drain before (which is still unpleasant but nowhere near as painful).

 

[Lambach]

I mean, I don't understand why the fact that you can't use a learned spell and have to use a scroll/wand/potion/we makes it a bad encounter.

Because obtaining even a single scroll that has what you need for this encounter is very difficult at this point in the game and will set you back in terms of other, more important purchases, and you're likely going to need more than just one single scroll because those Level-Draining assholes like to spread the love, from I've personally seen.

The only thing I could agree (a little bit) with you is about the shadow's location since they are in the middle of the map they are hard to understand they are optional.

Yeah, sure, fine, they're optional, whatever. I agree. In fact, I think they're the only optional encounter in WotR that I've skipped so far. So what? Does that mean they're not utterly bullshit design that has absolutely no place being where it is? No it doesn't, because they really are a piece of utterly bullshit design that has no place being where it is first place.

Protection of petrification in bg1 at level 1 means you have at most 2 casts of it per rest, if you are a specialist. So doesn't protect you either, so need scrolls too, or multiple mages, which is probably not the case at that point of the game.

All I'm hearing is "BG easily gives you the tools to deal with the problem, but you have to be careful how you use them, while Owlcat just shit on your face and laugh".

 

[Desiderius]

I feel like it was always (temporary) lvl or I wouldn’t have avoided that area until lvl 4/5. You do need to get past them before Tavern defense if you want to get Nabasu after, which helps you get to lvl six for big Garrison fights.

 

[ga♥]

I don't remember level drain either, only abilty dmg, maybe they added it. And yeah in subsequent playthroughs they get easier to deal with. Exactly like in IE games encounters.

 

[Lambach]

And yeah in subsequent playthroughs they get easier to deal with. Exactly like in IE games encounters.

Well yeah, in subsequent playthroughs, you remember where they are, so you can entirely avoid them easier.