Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Sarathiour]

Nice bait.

Haplo, your standard for what could be considered good are starting to seriously worry me.

 

[Desiderius]

Owlcat: here’s at least six Donains with game-changing abilities you can’t get anywhere else. Main reason to play classes with Domains. In case you’re stuck on the Animal Domain meme we’ll give you a free pet you can ride to get you out of that rut.

Players: nah, we like it so much we’re going to burn our most scarce and powerful resource (Mythic abilities) getting it on a class *that already has a full pet*.

Gotta hand it to you guys, that’s impressive dedication to the one-weird-trick lifestyle. Nobody can nerf themselves like memechasers.

Do it to get a massively overpowered boost in early levels, respec at higher levels (or swap to a different NPC/merc). Not too hard to figure out how people would use it. Alternatively use it to multiclass into something that doesn't get pet levels.

Burning your Mythic abilities and Domains on a few pet levels is the opposite of overpowered, massively or otherwise. Classes without pet levels are designed to be played without pets. There aren't that many pet items to go around, nor are there the buffs that make pets viable if you want to have functional characters. You're just running in circles.

If you want to have a pet (and run Seelah/Daeran without one) play a pet class. Use your Mythics on what the class is good at. Use your Domain(s) to get abilities your can't get anywhere else and that you need to stop the things that are killing you. Let your classes develop instead of letting your ADHD make you switch around from class to class on one character. Most abilities take awhile in a class to get there/unlock, even on the "broken" classes that aren't that broken.

Use all this mental energy you're using trying to find the one-weird-trick to break open the game on the hundred unweird spells and abilities you haven't had time to read yet.

 

[RunningWolf]

"One-wierd-trick lifestyle" got to be the faggiest reddit tier made up term i heard on the internet. Normal people grow out of inventing cringe insults in the kindergarten but this retard didn't get the memo.

 

[Desiderius]

"One-wierd-trick lifestyle" got to be the faggiest reddit tier made up term i heard on the internet. Normal people grow out of inventing cringe insults in the kindergarten but this retard didn't get the memo.

If the shoe fits…

Reddit tier indeed. It’s what you’re doing. If you think it’s an insult then you’re telling on yourself a little bit. Try a different approach that doesn’t feel like an insult when accurately described.

 

[Average Manatee]

You take an ability that can give up to +6 pet levels. That's +6 BAB, +6 HD, +6 levels of feats and stat increases and other buffs. That's an incredible deal in most cases, way better than taking e.g. Mythic Beast. Imagine if you could literally take a mythic feat at level 10 that instantly gave your character level 16. That'd be an automatic pick. Obviously for an animal companion it's a bit less so but still powerful.

Desiderius always finds a way to take a bad opinion and immediately get militant about it.

 

[Daidre]

Burning your Mythic abilities and Domains on a few pet levels is the opposite of overpowered, massively or otherwise. Classes without pet levels are designed to be played without pets. There aren't that many pet items to go around, nor are there the buffs that make pets viable if you want to have functional characters. You're just running in circles.

Last several pages it is you who is running in circles with your domains obsession.

I had run domain-spamming Sosiel couple of times and my experience was thoroughly meh.
In low-tier fights domains are not worth the clicks wasted on them because everything is zerg-rushed in RTwP.
In mid-tier fights in TB all high performers like archers and ray-casters, who can potentially profit from his domain buffs, are way way before him in initiative order and delaying their turn will only give the enemy chance to fuck your party. And Sosiel's initiative is both horrendous and almost unsalvageable at the same time (Lann Inqusitor would do much better). So when he finally gets his precious clicks all priority targets are already shot/CCed/burnt to crisp.
And in select uber important fights where, for example, Community Domain, would be priceless (Nocticula, Baphomet) you can't even put it up before the fight due to shitton of scripted events.

Of course, they are still very useful in the rare fights where you can prepare beforehand and that last more than 1-2 rounds, like Playful Darkness and maybe Pathetic Quasit, but those are extremely few and far between for my Hard/Unfair parties. So choosing between Scald and Cleric as support luggage for my Unfair run I would take Scald (with his up to +14 AB buff and party-wide pounce) ten times out of ten.

 

[Desiderius]

Why not both?

Skald MC so you can add Azata to land spells and Sosiel to give advantage to everything (including skill checks). Giving additional Domains to Sosiel is bad because his action econ is already Swift-flooded, which is what makes them so good on everyone else who can fit one (or two - Reg can take multiples) in.

And again you’ve turned things exactly backwards. It’s the Animal Domain retards who are obsessed. I’m trying to get them out of that rut so they can see what they’re missing.

On the scripted fights you can activate the Domain ability as a Swift the first round of combat. That’s what Domain Zealot is for. By the time you hit the late scripted fights you’ve got some Mythic picks to play with, unlike people burning their early ones making their own Bismuth.

 

[Desiderius]

You take an ability that can give up to +6 pet levels. That's +6 BAB, +6 HD, +6 levels of feats and stat increases and other buffs. That's an incredible deal in most cases, way better than taking e.g. Mythic Beast. Imagine if you could literally take a mythic feat at level 10 that instantly gave your character level 16. That'd be an automatic pick. Obviously for an animal companion it's a bit less so but still powerful.

Desiderius always finds a way to take a bad opinion and immediately get militant about it.

Don’t take Mythic Beast either. Literally everything you do is soloing, one-dimensional, and win more. Huntmaster full pet is already strong and you can wear relic gloves to make it ridiculous.

You really are InEffective.

The glaring issue with Sacred Huntmaster is how to help MC suck less since you gave away your Judgements to get the pet in the first place.

 

[Stoned Ape]

Why not both?
everyone else who can fit one (or two - Reg can take multiples) in.

Only if you multiclass him with cleric/inquisitor, they patched out Hellknights being able to take Domain Zealot or Impossible Domain...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder...c/as_of_patch_11_regill_cant_take_the_mythic/

Unless they patched it back in again without saying anything about it!

 

[Desiderius]

You take an ability that can give up to +6 pet levels. That's +6 BAB, +6 HD, +6 levels of feats and stat increases and other buffs. That's an incredible deal in most cases, way better than taking e.g. Mythic Beast. Imagine if you could literally take a mythic feat at level 10 that instantly gave your character level 16. That'd be an automatic pick. Obviously for an animal companion it's a bit less so but still powerful.

Desiderius always finds a way to take a bad opinion and immediately get militant about it.

Don’t take Mythic Beast either. Literally everything you do is soloing, one-dimensional, and win more. Huntmaster full pet is already strong and you can wear relic gloves to make it ridiculous.

You really are InEffective.

The glaring issue with Sacred Huntmaster is how to help MC suck less since you gave away your Judgements to get the pet in the first place.

If you want to get a feel for the issue here play the Varnhold DLC companions. They're well-designed to accentuate some issues with popular build options while highlighting some things people had missed.

The Cleric has Animal Domain and as a consequence effectively has no action economy herself whatsoever. And the pet starts out at lvl 2 when you get it so you're pretty much priced in to using the only feat the Cleric gets for the whole DLC on Boon. If you do Elk does great but Cleric will make you pull your hair trying to get that Bow relevant at all. You can buy a Shock Bow but... she's not even proficient with it.

 

[Average Manatee]

Don’t take Mythic Beast either. Literally everything you do is soloing, one-dimensional, and win more. Huntmaster full pet is already strong and you can wear relic gloves to make it ridiculous.

Why would you even suggest that I would take Mythic Beast when the double leveling trick is vastly stronger?

The glaring issue with Sacred Huntmaster is how to help MC suck less since you gave away your Judgements to get the pet in the first place.

Curious how you think I'm one-dimensional when it's clearly you. The MC's strength is irrelevant, what matters is the strength of the whole party. If giving your pet +6 levels is a greater increase than another ability then it's a good pick.

 

[Desiderius]

Burning your Mythic abilities and Domains on a few pet levels is the opposite of overpowered, massively or otherwise. Classes without pet levels are designed to be played without pets. There aren't that many pet items to go around, nor are there the buffs that make pets viable if you want to have functional characters. You're just running in circles.

Last several pages it is you who is running in circles with your domains obsession.

I had run domain-spamming Sosiel couple of times and my experience was thoroughly meh.
In low-tier fights domains are not worth the clicks wasted on them because everything is zerg-rushed in RTwP.
In mid-tier fights in TB all high performers like archers and ray-casters, who can potentially profit from his domain buffs, are way way before him in initiative order and delaying their turn will only give the enemy chance to fuck your party. And Sosiel's initiative is both horrendous and almost unsalvageable at the same time (Lann Inqusitor would do much better). So when he finally gets his precious clicks all priority targets are already shot/CCed/burnt to crisp.
And in select uber important fights where, for example, Community Domain, would be priceless (Nocticula, Baphomet) you can't even put it up before the fight due to shitton of scripted events.

Of course, they are still very useful in the rare fights where you can prepare beforehand and that last more than 1-2 rounds, like Playful Darkness and maybe Pathetic Quasit, but those are extremely few and far between for my Hard/Unfair parties. So choosing between Scald and Cleric as support luggage for my Unfair run I would take Scald (with his up to +14 AB buff and party-wide pounce) ten times out of ten.

Wrath version of Luck Domain gives Sos an ability at sixth lvl that gives him multiple rounds of advantage on everything. He puts it on himself to slay with Divine Favor/Power, Righteous Might/Frightful, and Eaglesoul.

He's a boss killer when he does this since he can also mix in Touch of Good on top of it. Also full round (not just one attack or check).



With the multiple-round Luck ability and Reach he'll pick up big AoOs even when casting.



And of course we all know from P:K how Touch of Good helps on skill checks.

The first Luck ability gives advantage for a whole round as well. Since you're using a Reach Weapon you can use it in response to declaring your attack (in RTwP) or just normally in TB on the melee toons standing in front of you and they'll have advantage the following round on everything. Or you can give them Touch of Good for same duration.

The second Good Domain ability got overlooked in P:K on Tristian but it picks up additional activations (with Domain rnd/2*lvl each) at lvl 12, 16, and 20. You can start keeping up Holy on multiple weapons with it and with pretty much everything Evil that's a lot of extra damage.

 

[Desiderius]

Don’t take Mythic Beast either. Literally everything you do is soloing, one-dimensional, and win more. Huntmaster full pet is already strong and you can wear relic gloves to make it ridiculous.

Why would you even suggest that I would take Mythic Beast when the double leveling trick is vastly stronger?

The glaring issue with Sacred Huntmaster is how to help MC suck less since you gave away your Judgements to get the pet in the first place.

Curious how you think I'm one-dimensional when it's clearly you. The MC's strength is irrelevant, what matters is the strength of the whole party. If giving your pet +6 levels is a greater increase than another ability then it's a good pick.

FFS you're the one who brought up Mythic Beast.

MC's strength is never irrelevant since it's MC that gets the Mythic Path. It's only a good pick if it's something you need and it's better than the alternatives. The only alternatives you seem to be aware of are the one-dimensional ones. There are others.

 

[Average Manatee]

FFS you're the one who brought up Mythic Beast.

To say that it was weaker than the pet leveling trick? Clearly you misunderstood if you thought I was recommending taking it.

MC's strength is never irrelevant since it's MC that gets the Mythic Path. It's only a good pick if it's something you need and it's better than the alternatives. The only alternatives you seem to be aware of are the one-dimensional ones. There are others.

First, you don't have to do this on the MC, you can do this on any character.

Second, it depends on what you are doing with your MC or how you want to level them. If you want to only take 10 levels in a pet class then this ensures you have a max level pet. It's pretty simple and obviously effective if you know what you are doing.

 

[Desiderius]

Why not both?
everyone else who can fit one (or two - Reg can take multiples) in.

Only if you multicalss him with cleric/inquisitor, they patched out Hellknights being able to take Domain Zealot or Impossible Domain...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder...c/as_of_patch_11_regill_cant_take_the_mythic/

Unless they patched it back in again without saying anything about it!

Working:



Inspiring Command also needs to beat SR and mind-affecting. This may be WAI. Since player-side SR doesn't stack (or didn't last I checked) that may not be big concern, but probably an issue with Aru since she gets it naturally. Spell Pen of ability was 22 at lvl 20. Had forgotten it also boosts CMD and skill checks (like Reg Intimidate checks) so pretty handy.

 

[Desiderius]

If you want to only take 10 levels in a pet class then this ensures you have a max level pet. It's pretty simple and obviously effective if you know what you are doing.

Burning Mythics and Domains fucking around with your pet and cutting yourself off from your high level class abilities are highly InEffective things that are regrettably very popular among the clickbait clowns polluting all the online guides. It was originally amusing seeing the powergamers nerf themselves trying to cram their 3.5 concepts into the PF ruleset but now it's kind of depressing seeing new players get sent on wild goose chases away from the simple competence that would allow them to enjoy the game.

This is something I might want to facilitate a Prestige Class with a Pet base but beyond that it's bad news. And you only get the max pet if you burn yet another feat on Boon, which is why Animal Domain is deceptively bad in the first place.

 

[Average Manatee]

Burning Mythics and Domains fucking around with your pet and cutting yourself off from your high level class abilities are highly InEffective things that are regrettably very popular among the clickbait clowns polluting all the online guides. It was originally amusing seeing the powergamers nerf themselves trying to cram their 3.5 concepts into the PF ruleset but now it's kind of depressing seeing new players get sent on wild goose chases away from the simple competence that would allow them to enjoy the game.

What? You aren't high level, you're taking this as a character who is around level 6-10.

This is something I might want to facilitate a Prestige Class with a Pet base but beyond that it's bad news. And you only get the max pet if you burn yet another feat on Boon, which is why Animal Domain is deceptively bad in the first place.

You don't need boon. Do you understand how this works?

 

[Desiderius]

Pet basics:

They have diminishing returns in numbers. While they don't gum up melee like in P:K since you can mount them, there's only so many good pet items to go around and each pet sucks resources keeping them buffed and taking feats supporting them (with added feats + Mobility skill pts required for effective mounted combat).

With that in mind I only want one or two at most so I want the one or two I have to either:

(1) solve a problem like Daeran's Curse. Tabletop Tweaks removes Stagger immunity from Freedom of Movement which makes getting around Daeran's Curse a lot harder while also making Stagger effects you apply better against more mobs. The Nature Second Mystery that gives Daeran the mount also gives him Barkskin and some other good Revelations so in parties that use Daeran a lot he'll likely have a mount going forward. That probably means Seelah goes back on the ground to free up more Feats and Skill Pts that were going to Mounted Combat. She's set up more for tanking by midgame so going unmounted again lets her do that while getting Weapon Bond back and giving Daeran/MC the prime pet items. I like Mythic Skill Focus Evo, Initiative, and Shield Bashing on her and that takes too many Feats to fit in Mounted stuff.

(2) be a class that is designed around the pet/mount and gets the most out of it/the rider like Cav, Hunter, Arcane Rider, or Sohei. That can either be MC or Lann on Hunter. I've done Sacred HM and it doesn't quite get there with Lann and the Inq spellbook has too much overlap with Divine/Pal that I already have. Nomad is also reasonably solid (full Mount, Point Blank free) but a little uninteresting compared to Aru. Those classes all have unique higher (class) level abilities and spells/abilities that scale by class level so I'm looking to go single-class or one ZA lvl with Lann. Divine Hunter is only one with Domain but you're giving up a lot for it so hard to see value in burning it on improving pet that's already good with Hunter.

 

[Desiderius]

Burning Mythics and Domains fucking around with your pet and cutting yourself off from your high level class abilities are highly InEffective things that are regrettably very popular among the clickbait clowns polluting all the online guides. It was originally amusing seeing the powergamers nerf themselves trying to cram their 3.5 concepts into the PF ruleset but now it's kind of depressing seeing new players get sent on wild goose chases away from the simple competence that would allow them to enjoy the game.

What? You aren't high level, you're taking this as a character who is around level 6-10.

This is something I might want to facilitate a Prestige Class with a Pet base but beyond that it's bad news. And you only get the max pet if you burn yet another feat on Boon, which is why Animal Domain is deceptively bad in the first place.

You don't need boon. Do you understand how this works?

Animal Domain is late pet. So to get 20th level pet with ten pet levels you'd need Boon or you'd only have 17.

Multi-classing in general cuts you off from high (class) level abilities (unless you go Legend obv). That's why it's bad. It's like the difference between Wiz 7 multiclassing and Wiz 8.

 

[Average Manatee]

Animal Domain is late pet. So to get 20th level pet with ten pet levels you'd need Boon or you'd only have 17.

Yes, and? Getting a level 17 pet as a level 10 character is still powerful as fuck, and it'll be level 19 as soon as you are level 11 and reach level 20 once you've reached level 12.

Multi-classing in general cuts you off from high (class) level abilities (unless you go Legend obv). That's why it's bad. It's like the difference between Wiz 7 multiclassing and Wiz 8.

Which doesn't matter until you get to high levels, at which point you can either respec or pick up another npc/merc to replace the pet build character if the high level ability is more powerful than what your multiclass gets you. In the meantime at low/mid levels you're getting a massively overpowered pet for 1 mythic ability.

 

[Daidre]

He's a boss killer when he does this since he can also mix in Touch of Good on top of it. Also full round (not just one attack or check).

Except you need to be complete retard to waste Sosiel's precious actions and limited resources to have him using domain abilities on himself, when literally anybody else standing next to him would be a better recipient for this buff. Often including 50 STR dog from Animal Domain he sits on.
His melee potential is just the horse in the vacuum - in the fights where your high performers need his domain buffs to help them hit enemies you'd never waste them on mid-bab cleric with mediocre STR, and in the fights where your martials have 95% hit chance already - everything of notice is already dead/disabled at the time when armored cleric with the worst initiative in the party is ready for action and in position to hit something.

 

[Desiderius]

BAB is irrelevant.

For fuck sake for the millionth time this isn’t 3.5. I posted a pic because I knew you’d be on this bullshit. That’s Hard and Unfair.

Divine Favor/Power are *Personal*. Righteous Might/Frightful are *Personal*. Eaglesoul is *Personal*. You’ve got Abundant Casting and resting makes your army stronger. That means rnd/lvl stuff is on the menu, especially for the hardest fights. Bubble Buff mod makes it one click.

The second Luck ability gives advantage for multiple rounds *only to him*. Is there anybody who plays this game who can fucking read?

He’s the one with the Glaive proficiency from his Diety and the STR to wield it. He’s not even Tristian (who could also slay because of the Personal spells but didn’t have the Domain giving him advantage for multiple rounds or the STR Sos starts with).

As for action econ what action econ? That’s the point of the Reach - he even slays while casting. Which is also in one of the pics posted. But yeah he can also just buff and slay if you want to go that way.

Jesus people Pathfinder games have been out for five years now. Wrath for what three? When are you going to leave the BG tropes behind and read the PF stuff and adjust the PF stuff you knew from P:K to Wrath?

 

[Desiderius]

Animal Domain is late pet. So to get 20th level pet with ten pet levels you'd need Boon or you'd only have 17.

Yes, and? Getting a level 17 pet as a level 10 character is still powerful as fuck, and it'll be level 19 as soon as you are level 11 and reach level 20 once you've reached level 12.

Multi-classing in general cuts you off from high (class) level abilities (unless you go Legend obv). That's why it's bad. It's like the difference between Wiz 7 multiclassing and Wiz 8.

Which doesn't matter until you get to high levels, at which point you can either respec or pick up another npc/merc to replace the pet build character if the high level ability is more powerful than what your multiclass gets you. In the meantime at low/mid levels you're getting a massively overpowered pet for 1 mythic ability.

Or you could just learn to suck less so you didn’t have to jump through all those hoops.

 

[Average Manatee]

"having a stronger build" = "jumping through hoops", OK?

 

[Technomancer]

I hate respec options in rpgs, it is a massive decline. Legalized cheats basically, a system that breaks balance and is prone to abuse.