Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Parabalus]

- Full VO
- Dumbed down ruleset
- Stat bloat
- Writing and story adapted for the 10 year-old audience.

"Hey let's play this on Tactictan mode, it will be a real proving ground for my abilities as an RPG player!" - don't blame me for this never crossing my mind. :D

Yeah, wotr really declined quick...

None of those 4 fit WotR though.

 

[AwesomeButton]

WoTR will def often ignore your frontline and go for backline, it happens.

What AI does D:OS2 have, apart from some terrain use?

TBH I was wondering the same, but I don't care enough to ask.

And a final thing on difficulty - I doubt I'll ever play WotR on anything above Core either. I just don't see a point. I won't enjoy minmaxing to the point of making Hard trivial to play, any more than I have already enjoyed minmaxing to make Core trivial to play. It's just numbers inflation for me. The feeling of being able to overwhelm most encounters is for me the same feeling, on Core and on Hard.

 

[Cryomancer]

wotr has stat bloat that is not present whatsoever in the original game and exists purely to challenge the player because they can't be bothered implementing an AI that does more than attack the thing closest to it

I agree. In chapter 1, you see conjurers using invisibility and spamming summon monster, but in late game, you don't see the mobs doing interesting things. And the numbers are too bloated. The difficulty fells completely artificial and out of place.

But guess what. Even with the poor writing, AI problems and number bloat, this game is better than any gear farming cooldown managing game.

That decline in later stages is a common problem in most RPGs sadly.

NWN 1/2 - Hordes of The Underdark and Mask of The Betrayer late game is great. Baldur's Gate 2 chapter 5 is amazing. But this is probably the exception, not the rule.

None of those 4 fit WotR though.

Writing and stat bloat fits. But DOS2 is arguably worse in this two aspects.

 

[Reinhardt]

- Full VO
- Dumbed down ruleset
- Stat bloat
- Writing and story adapted for the 10 year-old audience.

"Hey let's play this on Tactictan mode, it will be a real proving ground for my abilities as an RPG player!" - don't blame me for this never crossing my mind. :D

Yeah, wotr really declined quick...

None of those 4 fit WotR though.

Ask Victor about dragons and ac.

 

[Reinhardt]

But DOS2 is arguably worse in this two aspects.

How can you know if you didn't even played it past fort? I mean shitting on games is an ancient codex tradition but shitting on numbers when you never seen those numbers is haram.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

What AI does D:OS2 have, apart from some terrain use?

DOS2 AI uses utility theory when evaluating what move to make with a lot of factors considered
If you install the devkit most of the scripts for enemy AI come with it
there's a barebones rundown of it here: https://docs.larian.game/Combat_AI

yes, I'm aware the game has stat bloat, but it's an innate part of the ruleset.
wotr has stat bloat that is not present whatsoever in the original game and exists purely to challenge the player because they can't be bothered implementing an AI that does more than attack the thing closest to it

these are two completely separate issues, I hope that clears things up champ

"My pet game can have stat bloat, yours cannot, because it's a different situation there." Ok rusty. I don't really care ether way, seriously. Just wanted to make fun of the double standard. Just play and enjoy whatever you feel like enjoying.

the statbloat in DOS2 sucks, but it is part of the game. They were not adapting something that already exists and adjusting it, I'd say I'm not sure why you can't understand this but I'm pretty sure it's because you're a peak midwit

 

[Parabalus]

- Full VO
- Dumbed down ruleset
- Stat bloat
- Writing and story adapted for the 10 year-old audience.

"Hey let's play this on Tactictan mode, it will be a real proving ground for my abilities as an RPG player!" - don't blame me for this never crossing my mind. :D

Yeah, wotr really declined quick...

None of those 4 fit WotR though.

Ask Victor about dragons and ac.

It's def not bloated for the PC's power level. They could comfortably put enemies with 100 AC in A6 tbh.

DOS2 AI uses utility theory when evaluating what move to make with a lot of factors considered

Next you'll tell us it was done using agile development and runs on a blockchain, sure sign it's good.

 

[purupuru]

The thing I hate most about Kingmaker is the "rewards" you get from kingdom management. Because rewards don't feel that rewarding when you don't put in the effort for it.
When you just skip days with the upgrade projects and the artisans would line up to fill your inventory to the brim with magic items, the earlier days of exploring and dungeoneering start to feel like a bad joke. Pretty realistic for a baron I suppose, but not what I want in an rpg, not by far.
The relics from the crusade system at least offers a slim sense of exploration, though I don't like it that you basically have to choose blindly between the item types. And of course many items are straight up bugged.

 

[AwesomeButton]

the statbloat in DOS2 sucks, but it is part of the game. They were not adapting something that already exists and adjusting it, I'd say I'm not sure why you can't understand this but I'm pretty sure it's because you're a peak midwit

I was being courteous and this is what I get - "you don't like what I like, therefore you must be dumb". Ok rusty, sure. Have a nice day.

 

[Reinhardt]

- Full VO
- Dumbed down ruleset
- Stat bloat
- Writing and story adapted for the 10 year-old audience.

"Hey let's play this on Tactictan mode, it will be a real proving ground for my abilities as an RPG player!" - don't blame me for this never crossing my mind. :D

Yeah, wotr really declined quick...

None of those 4 fit WotR though.

Ask Victor about dragons and ac.

It's def not bloated for the PC's power level. They could comfortably put enemies with 100 AC in A6 tbh.

But those stats have no sense in universe. Why beggar demons are abused in abyss when you can go and solo conquer some kingdom in golarion with your stats?

 

[AwesomeButton]

Next you'll tell us it was done using agile development and runs on a blockchain, sure sign it's good.

BTW I referenced utility based AI some pages ago, but rusty didn't notice it because I'm too dumb for him to read my posts ;(
http://battlebrothersgame.com/dev-blog-27-ai-battle-brothers-part-1/

 

[NJClaw]

DOS2 AI uses utility theory when evaluating what move to make with a lot of factors considered

Very useful. Now just tell them to make a game where you can't one-shot the final boss with three different skills on the highest possible difficulty setting.

 

[Emmanuel2]

Is there any reason to pick normal sorc over cross blooded sorc? What is the downside?

You get 1 less spells known in total per spell level that you have access to. So cross-blooded sorcerers have even less spells to choose from and get new spells a level later compared to non-crossblood sorcerers.

It's strange that the downside is not mentioned in the class screen, or at least from what I can tell, but the downside is there and is faithful to the Tabletop version.

 

[Parabalus]

Next you'll tell us it was done using agile development and runs on a blockchain, sure sign it's good.

you seem pretty butthurt

Just wanted to know how you make D:OS2 fun.

- Full VO
- Dumbed down ruleset
- Stat bloat
- Writing and story adapted for the 10 year-old audience.

"Hey let's play this on Tactictan mode, it will be a real proving ground for my abilities as an RPG player!" - don't blame me for this never crossing my mind. :D

Yeah, wotr really declined quick...

None of those 4 fit WotR though.

Ask Victor about dragons and ac.

It's def not bloated for the PC's power level. They could comfortably put enemies with 100 AC in A6 tbh.

But those stats have no sense in universe. Why beggar demons are abused in abyss when you can go and solo conquer some kingdom in golarion with your stats?

Sounds like Paizo's fault, they made the stats for the rest of the universe.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Sounds like Paizo's fault, they made the stats for the rest of the universe.

What makes you think the wotr computer game has stats anywhere near the AP's stats?

 

[Sunri]

After clearing Battle Bliss Arena all my portal disappeared lol this game is getting better with every minute

 

[Reinhardt]

Sounds like Paizo's fault, they made the stats for the rest of the universe.

There is literally nothing combined mortal armies we seen in first 3 chapters can do stop few random demons from the streets of chapter 4.(well, except to lure them into crusade battle and kill 100000 demons with one fireball, of course)

 

[Mauman]

Was there a mod that let completely respec companions? Tried toybox but Im too retarded to figure out respeccing with that mod

Since I didn't see anybody who posted this (apologies if somebody did), the correct/newest/working version of the respec mod is on github, NOT Nexus.

 

[Cryomancer]

It's def not bloated for the PC's power level. They could comfortably put enemies with 100 AC in A6 tbh.

But it makes no sense. I don't care how epic your adventure is. Mephistopheles has 48 AC in P&P. No PC's should easily get more than it. And is not only stat bloat.

For example, in P&P, the Lich template ( https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/lich/ ) requires complex crafting checks to make a phylactery, 120k gold and gives way less abilities than the lich mythic path.

One ability which liches can get gives 35 Spell Resistance + mythic rank, up to 45 SR. Mephistopheles has 41 SR. Spawn of Rovagug in Kingmaker had 36 SR. I'm not comparing a mythic hero with a normal mob. I'm comparing with "godlike" beings.

After clearing Battle Bliss Arena all my portal disappeared lol this game is getting better with every minute

Navigating this city without portals will gonna be a nightmare...

 

[Parabalus]

Sounds like Paizo's fault, they made the stats for the rest of the universe.

What makes you think the wotr computer game has stats anywhere near the AP's stats?

I don't, the AP stats are probably wrong.

 

[Atlet]

Most rpgs have problems with the end game and not so great enemy AI. So, its not only WotR fault, the best rpgs out there suffer the same issues.

Pointing out the not so good narrative is the same problem. Vast majority of the rpgs out there suffer from it, also.

 

[Parabalus]

ut it makes no sense. I don't care how epic your adventure is. Mephistopheles has 48 AC in P&P. No PC's should easily get more than it.

Your PCs can easily get that in Act 1. That AC is for tabletop larpers and no save&load, it's essentially game-journo mode.

Think in WoTR he has mid-70s AC, which is more realistic.

 

[Grauken]

DOS2 AI uses utility theory when evaluating what move to make with a lot of factors considered

Very useful. Now just tell them to make a game where you can't one-shot the final boss with three different skills on the highest possible difficulty setting.

"game has broken skills therefore it is bad"
wow every game ever made is bad
this is your mind on owlcat's cock

Rusty, I know you don't read other people's posts so I'm not getting mad at you, but come on. I'm not saying the game is bad. All things considered, I actually enjoyed it and defended it against some unfair criticism.

That's the difference between a sane person and you (when you go on your shitposting sprees, otherwise you're sane too): you are physically unable to understand that it's possible to criticize a game while still enjoying its qualities.

You're praising D:OS2 for its radiant AI, but what's the point when in an entire 120 hours playthrough there's not a single enemy able to withstand the fucking dumb skills you got in the very first area?

Rusty just likes story-mode

 

[Cryomancer]

Crispy, retardo this derail, pls

I apologize, but I can't stand someone praising D:OS2 to be shitting on WotR for "lack of AI and stat bloat". That's just ridiculous.

Me too. I can get someone like Pink Eye who criticize this game and praises KoTC2, but criticizing it to praise divinity is nonsensical... BTW, KoTC2 has something akin to mythic transformation but with way less "bloat". You can even become a construct ( https://www.heroicfantasygames.com/FWE/Pages/FWE_Moons.htm ) And you can play as a exotic race, you can be a Half Giant Barbarian or a Half Salamanter Psion for eg.

how awful this game is

It is not awful. It is just not as good as kingmaker.

 

[Daidre]

My main gripe is crusade mode, it does nothing but slow the game down. At least with Kingdom management (which I hate) we got some uber rewards. Crusades give some strange relics and XP (lol)

Relics that crusaders loot could be turned into uber rewards too - after two Kingdom card events (study and enchant) with some choices on what type of an item you want (ring, weapon etc).

So each relic could be turned into like 3-7 artifacts that party uses, and drastically different at that. For example, rod that turns all damage to unholy, or the neck for a greasy wizards:

Spoiler