Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[just]

I finally did that Ivory dungeon in Act 3. Ending was hilarious.

Spoiler

After I had to beat the locust man 3 times and his summons (4 times if you count the the phase where he turns into Locusts and then gets back together after you kill all Locusts) I go and talk to Jeribeth that says "Tnx for killing him, now I will kill you" and then dies before she can do anything.. I know she is a demon but she is supposed to be old and smart and stuff, not suicidal

How did you get that outcome

Spoiler

did you refuse her help at the entrance?

i had the same edning and did everything she asked me to do

 

[ArchAngel]

I finally did that Ivory dungeon in Act 3. Ending was hilarious.

Spoiler

After I had to beat the locust man 3 times and his summons (4 times if you count the the phase where he turns into Locusts and then gets back together after you kill all Locusts) I go and talk to Jeribeth that says "Tnx for killing him, now I will kill you" and then dies before she can do anything.. I know she is a demon but she is supposed to be old and smart and stuff, not suicidal

How did you get that outcome

Spoiler

did you refuse her help at the entrance?

Spoiler

I did tell her I would help and she told me to come find her afterwards and that she would answer a question. When I did find her, she was alone with two random demons, she answers one question and turns hostile (only her). I then kill her in 1 round and that is it LOL
Funny thing I was thinking if I should betray her first but decided not to since I am playing a LE character and I will mostly stick to my word.

 

[ga♥]

I finally did that Ivory dungeon in Act 3. Ending was hilarious.

Spoiler

After I had to beat the locust man 3 times and his summons (4 times if you count the the phase where he turns into Locusts and then gets back together after you kill all Locusts) I go and talk to Jeribeth that says "Tnx for killing him, now I will kill you" and then dies before she can do anything.. I know she is a demon but she is supposed to be old and smart and stuff, not suicidal

How did you get that outcome

Spoiler

did you refuse her help at the entrance?

i had the same edning and did everything she asked me to do

Spoiler

in my case she thanked me and went back to the abyss o_O

 

[Mauman]

Spoiler

in my case she thanked me and went back to the abyss o_O

Yeah, same. I'm actually confused.

Wonder if they refused to let her take the one dude from Wintersun, or if they

Spoiler

killed the flower version of said dude

That might do it.

 

[Ipum]

About what I talked about the slog that ch 5/6 would be in PF2E or D&D 5E, one spell :

Finger of Death - It is save or die originally, in the 2E, in 3E and PF1e nerfed to only deal a very high amount of damage, so even at lv 20, the maximum damage is 200. In Generic wow clone : tabletop edition it got heavily nerfed and the nerf was carried to 5E and PF2e. Dealing mere 70 damage on PF2e and mere 60.5 average damage(7d8+30) in 5E. In both games, you can find low CR mobs with 3 digit hp(something that even in Dragons was rare in 2E).

Even DDO which is a mmo, where you expect to see way more balance BS, FoD OHK stuff. I know cuz I have a lv 27 Pale Master there. A lot of mobs have protections, so I need to cast disjunction before attempting to finger then.

Phantasmal Killer is described as "emotion, fear, mind-affecting". Which exactly immunity you're writing about? And what other weaknesses this foe has?

Yep. You can kill even spawn of rovagug with it. Undeads, I believe that some undeads and constructs are immune to it but that is it. Illusion magic suffers way less restriction in OHKilling capabilities than necromancy in 3E.

In DnD 3,5 it was:
Necromancy [Death]
Level: Drd 8, Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One living creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial
Spell Resistance: Yes
You can slay any one living creature within range. The target is entitled to a Fortitude saving throw to survive the attack. If the save is successful, the creature instead takes saving throw.

 

[Parabalus]

So a big issue with the game is Archmage armour if there was an Ascendant armour focus would this fix using armours?

Why do you think it's an issue?

Because it allows touch armor to scale too well to make the real armour lose in comparison.

This would not be an issue in itself if the enemies who make touch attacks were few and far between. But they are extremely prevalent, worse when they do stat or level damage.

Who targets touch?

 

[ArchAngel]

Spoiler

in my case she thanked me and went back to the abyss o_O

Yeah, same. I'm actually confused.

Wonder if they refused to let her take the one dude from Wintersun, or if they

Spoiler

killed the flower version of said dude

That might do it.

I did kill the guy that was running the village for her. But my point was not that

Spoiler

She turns on us, but that it was such a pathetic fight. Especially compared to the Locust dude I just fought moments earlier.

 

[NJClaw]

About what I talked about the slog that ch 5/6 would be in PF2E or D&D 5E, one spell :

Finger of Death - It is save or die originally, in the 2E, in 3E and PF1e nerfed to only deal a very high amount of damage, so even at lv 20, the maximum damage is 200. In Generic wow clone : tabletop edition it got heavily nerfed and the nerf was carried to 5E and PF2e. Dealing mere 70 damage on PF2e and mere 60.5 average damage(7d8+30) in 5E. In both games, you can find low CR mobs with 3 digit hp(something that even in Dragons was rare in 2E).

LOL...

Just a question. Did you ever played 3E or 2E? Or any other game like Vampire : the Requiem, GURPS, any retroclone? basically except by 4E, every other TT RPG is higher lethality than 5e and pf2e.

Lol, the verve.

I started playing AD&D in 1999 as a 6 year old, under the guidance of the older brother of a friend of mine. We switched to 3E in 2002 and played non stop 3-6 times a week for 11 years, when our group of old-time friends inevitably had to part ways because everyone moved to a different big city to work or study. Since 2013, I have 3 regular groups and various occasional ones. We regularly play a weird mix of Pathfinder and 3E at least 2 times a week and 5E one time a week, and with the occasional groups we try many different games that we explore for a month or two and then drop to move to the next thing. Along the years we tried almost everything "mainstream" enough to come to our attention, from GURPS to Numenera, from 13th Age to Rolemaster, from Dungeon World to Lamentations of the Flame Princess. Not Vampire thought, because, despite my internet persona, I don't like the taste of dick in my mouth.

So yeah, I have played 3E and 2E. Precisely, I've played them for my entire life. I would have started sooner, but I literally didn't have brain cells.

 

[Shadenuat]

Viktor is right though.

Death effects are hard counters to potential hp bloated things, and also a reminder that anyone, unless they are also supported by party buffs, is never too far away from death, goblin or dragon. It is what one would call a high gamble choice in terms of tactics. Wiz8 is full of such effects you must use to quickly and efficiently clear hordes of enemies, from stuns that lead to double damage to all kinds of katana decapitations.
But if such powerful spell does barely more damage than a crit from fighter even without any op feats, it can't serve its purpose.

The ideal fix would be for it to drain a percentage of enemy hitpoints (D2 Static Field), but calculating percentages is not adding and substracting ab or whatever, so not an option for PnP. Although recalculating stats due to potential stat might also be annoying?
Percentage drain would, however, work always regardless of any bloat you might end up with in your monsters. It's something that might not be needed in PnP, but for CRPG I would definitely rework all this into a more lethal no-nonsense system.

 

[ArchAngel]

Viktor is right though.

Death effects are hard counters to potential hp bloated things, and also a reminder that anyone, unless they are also supported by party buffs, is never too far away from death, goblin or dragon. It is what one would call a high gamble choice in terms of tactics. Wiz8 is full of such effects you must use to quickly and efficiently clear hordes of enemies, from stuns that lead to double damage to all kinds of katana decapitations.
But if such powerful spell does barely more damage than a crit from fighter even without any op feats, it can't serve its purpose.

The ideal fix would be for it to drain a percentage of enemy hitpoints (D2 Static Field), but calculating percentages is not adding and substracting ab or whatever, so not an option for PnP. Although recalculating stats due to potential stat might also be annoying?
Percentage drain would, however, work always regardless of any bloat you might end up with in your monsters. It's something that might not be needed in PnP, but for CRPG I would definitely rework all this into a more lethal no-nonsense system.

I think this was changed to spare random deaths of players, not because of enemies. Because high levels turn into throwing death spells around and players get to roll saves vs these more often and get to fail them more often.

Now that we mention "death" spells, that fucking Locust mage turned my almost Lich into a Dog. And since I had Mirror Image on, there were a lot of dogs there :D

 

[NJClaw]

Viktor is right though.

He really isn't, though.

He laments the fact that 5E is supposed to be "a slog" because save or dies have been nerfed, but he knows literally nothing about 5E. He is considering single spells like Finger of Death in a vacuum and saying "hey, this deals less damage then before, therefore combat will take forever"; however, in the real world where people actually play D&D instead of only discussing it in a CRPG forum, everyone who has ever played with this edition knows that nothing could be further from the truth. 5E characters' damage output is so high that encounters rarely last more than 2-3 rounds. To have a longer combat, you need to use an escamotage to stretch its length (like using waves of enemies, giving the boss more phases, making enemies undetectable after a while, or something like that).

He decided that combat in 5E takes forever without having even the slightest idea of how the edition plays at the table.

 

[kinzadza]

high-level PF combat is called rocket tag for a reason.

 

[Shadenuat]

I think this was change to spare random deaths of players

It was, it gravitated to making systems upon systems to make sure players not lose their characters. But it simply isn't that necessary in a combat CRPG. Glances, heals over time, death doors, all these safe spaces lead to dragged out combats a-la early PoE.

5E characters' damage output is so high that encounters rarely last more than 2-3 rounds

Isn't 5E known for a problem of making it hard to kill players?

Regardless, a lot of these spells end up p. pathetic in a CRPG, because numbers stack more favourably for physical damage due to increased amount of characters, monster encounters and buffs you can stack, so whatever there is in 5E, problems of FoD being kinda underwhelming is not going anywhere.

Now that we mention "death" spells, that fucking Locust mage turned my almost Lich into a Dog

Illusions/Transmutation are cool yeah. Especially when (if?) they will fix shadow magic.

 

[ArchAngel]

Regardless, a lot of these spells end up p. pathetic in a CRPG, because numbers stack more favourably for physical damage due to increased amount of characters, monster encounters and buffs you can stack, so whatever there is in 5E, problems of FoD being kinda underwhelming is not going anywhere.

It is really not underwhelming atm in Act 3. Many enemies show up with Blur, Displacements, Greater Invisibility and/or Mirror Image and those are in the back often. Melee will need to move there and do one attack and probably suffer AoO and miss. Ranged will miss more than they hit. My Caster will either one shot them or two shot them with such spells. My caster can also choose to cast Greater Dispel Magic on them (which has lower chance to work) or cast True Sight on one of the archers (as melee still need to waste a round to get there). Usually best course of actions is to just FoD them.
As for later.. well FoD is a lvl 7 spells for a reason, later you need to use lvl 8 and lvl 9 spells.

 

[Parabalus]

Viktor is right though.

He really isn't, though.

He laments the fact that 5E is supposed to be "a slog" because save or dies have been nerfed, but he knows literally nothing about 5E. He is considering single spells like Finger of Death in a vacuum and saying "hey, this deals less damage then before, therefore combat will take forever"; however, in the real world where people actually play D&D instead of only discussing it in a CRPG forum, everyone who has ever played with this edition knows that nothing could be further from the truth. 5E characters' damage output is so high that encounters rarely last more than 2-3 rounds. To have a longer combat, you need to use an escamotage to stretch its length (like using waves of enemies, giving the boss more phases, making enemies undetectable after a while, or something like that).

He decided that combat in 5E takes forever without having even the slightest idea of how the edition plays at the table.

Solasta combat is pretty lethal, lots of 1 rounds kills etc. Higher levels prob have even more of it.

 

[Shadenuat]

Melee will need to move there and do one attack and probably suffer AoO and miss

Just don't miss lol.
You're playing TB I take it.

 

[ArchAngel]

Melee will need to move there and do one attack and probably suffer AoO and miss

Just not miss lol.
You're playing TB I take it.

Yes, TB.
Not miss vs Displacement and Mirror Image and AC and rolling 1 all the time (RNG is rigged vs players)? Good luck.

 

[Shadenuat]

You can just dimension door whole party right into enemy and kill them btw. No movement problems.

Displacement etc. is ignored by True Sight.

1 all the time (RNG is rigged vs players

Just rub Ember head for luck, secret Mishulin cheat.

 

[ArchAngel]

You can just dimension door whole party right into enemy and kill them btw. No movement problems.

That only works if none of the melee enemies are dangerous to my back line. My archers and Mage solve most problems, melee is for tanking and taking out their melee.

But it would be cool to have a custom party of Enlarged Reach weapon Melee focused guys and one guys that buffs them and has a bunch of Dimension Doors to transport them all over the battlefield :D
Damn, I should have done this to my players while I was still being a DM just to see an expression on their faces :D
Especially a friend that was always playing mages, I bet he would rage quit after that :D

 

[Shadenuat]

But it would be cool to have a custom party of Enlarged Reach weapon Melee focused guys and one guys that buffs them and has a bunch of Dimension Doors

All riding giant dogs. See, you can imagine perfect tactic. No need for tankfighters.

As for Necromancy, I am just consistently amazed at how D&D inspired games treat it as some boring garbo game after game, at least on lower levels. By their idea necromancy is like touching people or shooting some ray or a fear spell. It's not just kind of spells you gain or even their effectiviness, but even conceptually, it lacks imagination. Just compare to even a bunch of ARPGs like D2 where they really went all out with Necro with summoning, curses and poison & bone trees; in Path of Exile, you can play skeletons that run into things and explode. Can't D&D make this stuff at least amusing in some way?

I've actually read some old Necro books from D&D too to find anything good to play, one of my players made a spell from it called Hear Heartbeat, that allowed her to hear living beings and some other neat stuff; but it's never in CRPGs.

Another low level spell from D&D I found was "Extermination", that killed HD of vermin or low HD critters (birds, azata butterflies special snowflakes, etc.); a lvl1 spell that easily did good damage to Vermin and scaled with level would be great in both KM/Wrath.

 

[Lagole Gon]

Uh, I did rest. In my own room. With that stupid elf retard chick in there. She's too young, so don't even think about it.

Disrespect Ember one more time and I'm going full-on maxie on you

I would execute her on the spot. Unfortunately she is my only blaster so she lives for now…

It's fine. I've heard you can mind break her if you sabotage her personal quest.

 

[ga♥]

A question regarding Perception 2 on tricksters, I thought it would automatically make you succeed perception checks. But it doesn't seem the case, so what are the "hidden things" you are supposed to notice with it?

 

[Daidre]

But it would be cool to have a custom party of Enlarged Reach weapon Melee focused guys and one guys that buffs them and has a bunch of Dimension Doors

All riding giant dogs. See, you can imagine perfect tactic. No need for tankfighters.

See, you've got it!

By the way, our cutest little witch gets amazing Major Hex on lvl 10 - Beast's Gift that last 1 min/lvl and does not have 24h cooldown. This thing adds bite or 2 claw attack to whomever. So, dog with Bite iteratives and 2 claws (or extra tripping bite) at full BAB - that's something!

 

[Mauman]

A question regarding Perception 2 on tricksters, I thought it would automatically make you succeed perception checks. But it doesn't seem the case, so what are the "hidden things" you are supposed to notice with it?

I thought that was just fluff text for "new feats, have fun".

Speaking of which, turning 1st level spells into cantrips is hilarious. And of course all of the other spells going down a level (or being bolstered on their normal level, etc...)

 

[ga♥]

A question regarding Perception 2 on tricksters, I thought it would automatically make you succeed perception checks. But it doesn't seem the case, so what are the "hidden things" you are supposed to notice with it?

I thought that was just fluff text for "new feats, have fun".

Speaking of which, turning 1st level spells into cantrips is hilarious. And of course all of the other spells going down a level (or being bolstered on their normal level, etc...)

Uh i have to try, having magic missle as cantrip seems handy