Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Haplo]

What I had in mind is more about sneak attacks on spells, like hellfire ray.
(Should have built Nenio as arcane trickster too but I didn't )

Well, initially I did want to make her one, but... when she joined my party, she urgently needed other feats and felt I can't delay her spellcasting progression so...
Octavia was prepared for that role much better.

 

[ga♥]

I don't know, witch seems pretty much a gimped wiz/sorcerer, maybe it is bettere in the pnp.
The hex and unique abilities after the start of the game are not that useful (exept the bite attack).

Well, Sleep hex is solid and Owlcat buffed it greatly by removing Witch's lvl as HD restriction. No wonders here, it would be useless here in PnP version.
Protective luck is wonderful and does wonders to save high AC tanks from being critted on Unfair. No 24h cooldown like a normal luck so it could be spammed in each combat and extended with Cackle.
Evil Eye and Misfortune are cool if you can land some save or suck spell from another spellcaster and useful in general.
From the Major Hexes, Beast's Gift is good as I've mentioned - a free attacks for everyone.
Agony - close to Sleep but targets Fort.
And Grand Hexes are meh at the level where you'd get them.

As a package deal, I would rate them higher then Sneak Attacking cantrips from AT (as the main filler non-spellcasting action).

And Witch's spellbook is filled with some cool flavorful spells in PnP that will never translate properly into CRPG. And was truncated to the bare minimum in the Wrath(

And I am still conflicted over spontaneous vs prepared Witch. Spontaneous Witch-blaster can at least extend her repertoire with special Fire/Lightning themed items but pays for this with full-round casts for all Metamagic feats and this hurts.

Sleep hex and evil eye were great at the start of the game. I am in chapter 4 and on hard enemies get +4 to saving throws so I just stopped using them because even if you can spam them the chance they land are near to 0 and action economy dictates better usage.

Protective hexes are nices even late but nothing to chose a witch over a wizard/sorcerer IMHO.

but evil eye it's not a "land or not", there's no SR check and enemies are either immune or not
the saving throws just reduce the duration and you have to sustain it with cackle
might be cumbersome for RTWP that i agree

Uhm I may be wrong but even though there was no SR check, I remember saving throws checks popping up on the combat log and if it succeded (pretty much everytime) right clicking on the enemy showed no icon.

 

[ga♥]

What I had in mind is more about sneak attacks on spells, like hellfire ray.
(Should have built Nenio as arcane trickster too but I didn't )

Well, initially I did want to make her one, but... when she joined my party, she urgently needed other feats and felt I can't delay her spellcasting progression so...
Octavia was prepared for that role much better.

Yeah well Octavia was made for it, but I feel that with all the spell slots you get from mythics feats a bit of delay (1 level) on spell progression is not a big deal.

 

[ArchAngel]

Shit, are the lich companions supposed to suck this much?

Spoiler

Delamere is okay (hard to botch an archer build), but Stauton comes with an underwhelming class, bad stats, and bizarre feat choices. Neither gets mythic powers and can't even be respecced. Seems significantly worse than the living companions, before even taking into account how annoying they are to heal.

On hard they suck majorly, not even using them, maybe the slayer. On anything below core they are probably much more viable but not having mythic abilities isn’t worth it, undead immunities are nice but you already can get a vanguard for that.

What are you all taking about. I got both and both have access to Mythic companion abilities...

What someone might miss from them is that they are both silent all the time. Basically like if you had a mercenary.

They don’t have mythic path abilities for me, wtf

Did you take them out to any mission?

 

[Daidre]

BTW, whatever anyone has to say about this game - staging encounters where an enemy has artificially achieved stats like +13 Dexterity bonus to AC (because somebody decided to give a DEX of 36, just like that), and a weapon like a dagger which does 1d4+24 damage (but only in that character's hands), is akin to D:OS2 gimmick battles.

I think they've got something to switch STR>DEX for damage bonus and Piranha Strike.

Just like all those very insightful Owlbears from P:K who all took Iron Will + Improved Iron Will to cover for their weakest save.

 

[Shadenuat]

Russian bear strong willed, just like life.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Russian bear strong willed, just like life.

Owlbear as the symbol of United Russia would have given it the majority without election rigging.

 

[NJClaw]

Just like all those very insightful Owlbears from P:K who all took Iron Will + Improved Iron Will to cover for their weakest save.

What do you expect the enemies to do when on the other side there are degenerates like Thac0 and Haplo picking CRANE STYLE on their HORSES AND DINOSAURS?

How does a horse that uses CRANE STYLE even look like?

 

[Delterius]

Just like all those very insightful Owlbears from P:K who all took Iron Will + Improved Iron Will to cover for their weakest save.

What do you expect the enemies to do when on the other side there are degenerates like Thac0 and Haplo picking CRANE STYLE on their HORSES AND DINOSAURS?

How does a horse that uses CRANE STYLE even look like?

to be fair half of this shit is owlcat's fault. pathfinder: kingmaker? more like pathfinder: why the fuck are all those bonuses stacking?

 

[ArchAngel]

Just like all those very insightful Owlbears from P:K who all took Iron Will + Improved Iron Will to cover for their weakest save.

What do you expect the enemies to do when on the other side there are degenerates like Thac0 and Haplo picking CRANE STYLE on their HORSES AND DINOSAURS?

How does a horse that uses CRANE STYLE even look like?

Same like the Horse that has Skill Focus Trickery and it is picking the locks and disarming traps :D

 

[Turuko]

I don't know, witch seems pretty much a gimped wiz/sorcerer, maybe it is bettere in the pnp.
The hex and unique abilities after the start of the game are not that useful (exept the bite attack).

Well, Sleep hex is solid and Owlcat buffed it greatly by removing Witch's lvl as HD restriction. No wonders here, it would be useless here in PnP version.
Protective luck is wonderful and does wonders to save high AC tanks from being critted on Unfair. No 24h cooldown like a normal luck so it could be spammed in each combat and extended with Cackle.
Evil Eye and Misfortune are cool if you can land some save or suck spell from another spellcaster and useful in general.
From the Major Hexes, Beast's Gift is good as I've mentioned - a free attacks for everyone.
Agony - close to Sleep but targets Fort.
And Grand Hexes are meh at the level where you'd get them.

As a package deal, I would rate them higher then Sneak Attacking cantrips from AT (as the main filler non-spellcasting action).

And Witch's spellbook is filled with some cool flavorful spells in PnP that will never translate properly into CRPG. And was truncated to the bare minimum in the Wrath(

And I am still conflicted over spontaneous vs prepared Witch. Spontaneous Witch-blaster can at least extend her repertoire with special Fire/Lightning themed items but pays for this with full-round casts for all Metamagic feats and this hurts.

Sleep hex and evil eye were great at the start of the game. I am in chapter 4 and on hard enemies get +4 to saving throws so I just stopped using them because even if you can spam them the chance they land are near to 0 and action economy dictates better usage.

Protective hexes are nices even late but nothing to chose a witch over a wizard/sorcerer IMHO.

but evil eye it's not a "land or not", there's no SR check and enemies are either immune or not
the saving throws just reduce the duration and you have to sustain it with cackle
might be cumbersome for RTWP that i agree

Uhm I may be wrong but even though there was no SR check, I remember saving throws checks popping up on the combat log and if it succeded (pretty much everytime) right clicking on the enemy showed no icon.

if they pass the saving throws, and most of them do, evil eye stays up for 1 round/6 sec and you can keep it active with your cackle (move action) every turn
try in TB mode it's pretty straighforward

 

[Daidre]

....degenerates picking CRANE STYLE on their HORSES AND DINOSAURS?

And on the dogs...

Spoiler

 

[ArchAngel]

I don't know, witch seems pretty much a gimped wiz/sorcerer, maybe it is bettere in the pnp.
The hex and unique abilities after the start of the game are not that useful (exept the bite attack).

Well, Sleep hex is solid and Owlcat buffed it greatly by removing Witch's lvl as HD restriction. No wonders here, it would be useless here in PnP version.
Protective luck is wonderful and does wonders to save high AC tanks from being critted on Unfair. No 24h cooldown like a normal luck so it could be spammed in each combat and extended with Cackle.
Evil Eye and Misfortune are cool if you can land some save or suck spell from another spellcaster and useful in general.
From the Major Hexes, Beast's Gift is good as I've mentioned - a free attacks for everyone.
Agony - close to Sleep but targets Fort.
And Grand Hexes are meh at the level where you'd get them.

As a package deal, I would rate them higher then Sneak Attacking cantrips from AT (as the main filler non-spellcasting action).

And Witch's spellbook is filled with some cool flavorful spells in PnP that will never translate properly into CRPG. And was truncated to the bare minimum in the Wrath(

And I am still conflicted over spontaneous vs prepared Witch. Spontaneous Witch-blaster can at least extend her repertoire with special Fire/Lightning themed items but pays for this with full-round casts for all Metamagic feats and this hurts.

Sleep hex and evil eye were great at the start of the game. I am in chapter 4 and on hard enemies get +4 to saving throws so I just stopped using them because even if you can spam them the chance they land are near to 0 and action economy dictates better usage.

Protective hexes are nices even late but nothing to chose a witch over a wizard/sorcerer IMHO.

but evil eye it's not a "land or not", there's no SR check and enemies are either immune or not
the saving throws just reduce the duration and you have to sustain it with cackle
might be cumbersome for RTWP that i agree

Uhm I may be wrong but even though there was no SR check, I remember saving throws checks popping up on the combat log and if it succeded (pretty much everytime) right clicking on the enemy showed no icon.

if they pass the saving throws, and most of them do, evil eye stays up for 1 round/6 sec and you can keep it active with your cackle (swift action) every turn
try in TB mode it's pretty straighforward

Cackle is move action.

 

[Delterius]

wish cackle was an aura that froze you in place for RTWP tbh

 

[ga♥]

I don't know, witch seems pretty much a gimped wiz/sorcerer, maybe it is bettere in the pnp.
The hex and unique abilities after the start of the game are not that useful (exept the bite attack).

Well, Sleep hex is solid and Owlcat buffed it greatly by removing Witch's lvl as HD restriction. No wonders here, it would be useless here in PnP version.
Protective luck is wonderful and does wonders to save high AC tanks from being critted on Unfair. No 24h cooldown like a normal luck so it could be spammed in each combat and extended with Cackle.
Evil Eye and Misfortune are cool if you can land some save or suck spell from another spellcaster and useful in general.
From the Major Hexes, Beast's Gift is good as I've mentioned - a free attacks for everyone.
Agony - close to Sleep but targets Fort.
And Grand Hexes are meh at the level where you'd get them.

As a package deal, I would rate them higher then Sneak Attacking cantrips from AT (as the main filler non-spellcasting action).

And Witch's spellbook is filled with some cool flavorful spells in PnP that will never translate properly into CRPG. And was truncated to the bare minimum in the Wrath(

And I am still conflicted over spontaneous vs prepared Witch. Spontaneous Witch-blaster can at least extend her repertoire with special Fire/Lightning themed items but pays for this with full-round casts for all Metamagic feats and this hurts.

Sleep hex and evil eye were great at the start of the game. I am in chapter 4 and on hard enemies get +4 to saving throws so I just stopped using them because even if you can spam them the chance they land are near to 0 and action economy dictates better usage.

Protective hexes are nices even late but nothing to chose a witch over a wizard/sorcerer IMHO.

but evil eye it's not a "land or not", there's no SR check and enemies are either immune or not
the saving throws just reduce the duration and you have to sustain it with cackle
might be cumbersome for RTWP that i agree

Uhm I may be wrong but even though there was no SR check, I remember saving throws checks popping up on the combat log and if it succeded (pretty much everytime) right clicking on the enemy showed no icon.

if they pass the saving throws, and most of them do, evil eye stays up for 1 round/6 sec and you can keep it active with your cackle (swift action) every turn
try in TB mode it's pretty straighforward

I will try, my understanding was save = no effect at all. There was actually an option that autopauses the game every spell used in Kingmaker, but sadly this included cantrip so it was really annoying and unusable, need to check if they changed it in WOTR.

EDIT: if cackle is a standard action then my old point stands; can't use evil eye from chapter 3 onward.

 

[Thac0]

Just like all those very insightful Owlbears from P:K who all took Iron Will + Improved Iron Will to cover for their weakest save.

What do you expect the enemies to do when on the other side there are degenerates like Thac0 and Haplo picking CRANE STYLE on their HORSES AND DINOSAURS?

How does a horse that uses CRANE STYLE even look like?

Meet Prinny:

His Kung Fu is great and he hasn't had his AC hit in the last 15 hours of play.

 

[NJClaw]

I will try, my understanding was save = no effect at all. There was actually an option that autopauses the game every spell used in Kingmaker, but sadly this included cantrip so it was really annoying and unusable, need to check if they changed it in WOTR.

EDIT: if cackle is a standard action then my old point stands; can't use evil eye from chapter 3 onward.

Even with a successful save, the enemy gets the penalty for 1 round. You can cackle to immediately extend it, and cackle is a move action.

 

[Turuko]

I don't know, witch seems pretty much a gimped wiz/sorcerer, maybe it is bettere in the pnp.
The hex and unique abilities after the start of the game are not that useful (exept the bite attack).

Well, Sleep hex is solid and Owlcat buffed it greatly by removing Witch's lvl as HD restriction. No wonders here, it would be useless here in PnP version.
Protective luck is wonderful and does wonders to save high AC tanks from being critted on Unfair. No 24h cooldown like a normal luck so it could be spammed in each combat and extended with Cackle.
Evil Eye and Misfortune are cool if you can land some save or suck spell from another spellcaster and useful in general.
From the Major Hexes, Beast's Gift is good as I've mentioned - a free attacks for everyone.
Agony - close to Sleep but targets Fort.
And Grand Hexes are meh at the level where you'd get them.

As a package deal, I would rate them higher then Sneak Attacking cantrips from AT (as the main filler non-spellcasting action).

And Witch's spellbook is filled with some cool flavorful spells in PnP that will never translate properly into CRPG. And was truncated to the bare minimum in the Wrath(

And I am still conflicted over spontaneous vs prepared Witch. Spontaneous Witch-blaster can at least extend her repertoire with special Fire/Lightning themed items but pays for this with full-round casts for all Metamagic feats and this hurts.

Sleep hex and evil eye were great at the start of the game. I am in chapter 4 and on hard enemies get +4 to saving throws so I just stopped using them because even if you can spam them the chance they land are near to 0 and action economy dictates better usage.

Protective hexes are nices even late but nothing to chose a witch over a wizard/sorcerer IMHO.

but evil eye it's not a "land or not", there's no SR check and enemies are either immune or not
the saving throws just reduce the duration and you have to sustain it with cackle
might be cumbersome for RTWP that i agree

Uhm I may be wrong but even though there was no SR check, I remember saving throws checks popping up on the combat log and if it succeded (pretty much everytime) right clicking on the enemy showed no icon.

if they pass the saving throws, and most of them do, evil eye stays up for 1 round/6 sec and you can keep it active with your cackle (swift action) every turn
try in TB mode it's pretty straighforward

Cackle is move action.

you're right, i've edited

 

[ga♥]

I will try, my understanding was save = no effect at all. There was actually an option that autopauses the game every spell used in Kingmaker, but sadly this included cantrip so it was really annoying and unusable, need to check if they changed it in WOTR.

EDIT: if cackle is a standard action then my old point stands; can't use evil eye from chapter 3 onward.

Even with a successful save, the enemy gets the penalty for 1 round. You can cackle to immediately to extend it, and cackle is a move action.

How is it better than just casting a spell? IMHO action economy is unfavorable to evil eye when enemies are guaranteed to succed the saving throw.

 

[Delterius]

I will try, my understanding was save = no effect at all. There was actually an option that autopauses the game every spell used in Kingmaker, but sadly this included cantrip so it was really annoying and unusable, need to check if they changed it in WOTR.

EDIT: if cackle is a standard action then my old point stands; can't use evil eye from chapter 3 onward.

Even with a successful save, the enemy gets the penalty for 1 round. You can cackle to immediately to extend it, and cackle is a move action.

How is it better than just casting a spell? IMHO action economy is unfavorable to evil eye when enemies are guaranteed to succed the saving throw.

For one because you can still cast a quickened spell. For another because Evil Eye is a debuff they cannot escape from.

 

[Percy]

-4AC or AB is good no matter how long the duration dude.

 

[Larianshill]

Victor kept shilling this game in BG3 thread 24/7. So, is it good?

 

[Delterius]

Victor kept shilling this game in BG3 thread 24/7. So, is it good?

Wrath is pretty progressive but BG3 has an alien cheat on you so it wins.

 

[NJClaw]

I will try, my understanding was save = no effect at all. There was actually an option that autopauses the game every spell used in Kingmaker, but sadly this included cantrip so it was really annoying and unusable, need to check if they changed it in WOTR.

EDIT: if cackle is a standard action then my old point stands; can't use evil eye from chapter 3 onward.

Even with a successful save, the enemy gets the penalty for 1 round. You can cackle to immediately to extend it, and cackle is a move action.

How is it better than just casting a spell? IMHO action economy is unfavorable to evil eye when enemies are guaranteed to succed the saving throw.

It's not better than casting a spell in every possible situation, but it can be whenever you need to:

(a) hit a single enemy that has a very high AC. -4 to AC is no joke, it's the equivalent of flanking with ouflank,

(b) boost your chance to not get hit. -4 to attack rolls is no joke, it's the equivalent of having the Shield spell on all your characters,

or

(c) affect the enemy with a spell. -4 to saving throws is no joke, it's the equivalent of Dirge of Doom + Archon's Aura.

 

[ga♥]

I will try, my understanding was save = no effect at all. There was actually an option that autopauses the game every spell used in Kingmaker, but sadly this included cantrip so it was really annoying and unusable, need to check if they changed it in WOTR.

EDIT: if cackle is a standard action then my old point stands; can't use evil eye from chapter 3 onward.

Even with a successful save, the enemy gets the penalty for 1 round. You can cackle to immediately to extend it, and cackle is a move action.

How is it better than just casting a spell? IMHO action economy is unfavorable to evil eye when enemies are guaranteed to succed the saving throw.

For one because you can still cast a quickened spell. For another because Evil Eye is a debuff they cannot escape from.

How is this better than casting 2 quickened spells hurr durr