Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[LannTheStupid]

Is it reactivity to the Kineticist?

Spoiler

What does she say to other classes?

 

[Fowyr]

Who is Lilura

My self-proclaimed granddaughter. She has a very big blog.

 

[ferratilis]

"She"

 

[LannTheStupid]

The defence of the tavern was very nicely done, the absence of saves and good cinematic cutscenes added some tension. In RTwP splitting attention between 2-3 attack points and maneuvering the party across the whole yard was intense and satisfying. For sure, selective Grease and Web from Nenio solved the problem with the gate, but still. Seelah looked very epic on the horse; I understand the difficulties of mounted combat in tight quarters, but her charge through the whole yard for the last two arsonists reminded me of Soviet films about the Russian civil war. It was quite a view.

In general - it is probably one of the most epic scenes in isometric CRPG's so far. Looking forward for the siege of Drezen. Well done Owlcat Games!

 

[Daidre]

I think my azata just've got "Kill everything" button.

Spoiler

Twice per round, thanks to Greater Quicken Rod.
Now I wonder, if "God of Arcane Magic", aka Lich could ever compete. Beside getting Wierd earlier.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Now I wonder, if "God of Arcane Magic", aka Lich could ever compete. Beside getting Wierd earlier.

It really cannot except getting higher caster level. Power of friendship, love and mimics. <3

 

[Daidre]

It really cannot except getting higher caster level. Power of friendship, love and mimics. <3

Well Azata-specific Fleshmarket fight was nasty. Pure evil.
Afaik it is not necessary, but still by far nastiest fight in the game that I saw and my only option was to cheese it a bit and leg it from starting point to the more favorable terrain. But I think it is possible to make it noticeably easier if you [Attack] some merchants there beforehand.

Btw, I absolutely adore Alushinyrra. It is the first real city Owlcat gave us and it is gorgeous. And encounter design is very solid on Hard - handful of fight in each District but none of them could really be called trash. First chapter in the game where amount of shit happening per round on the screen is so high that I spent most of the street fights on TB.

 

[Cryomancer]

"She"

"The Internet: where men are men, women are men, and children are FBI agents."

This is even more truth in codex.

Well Azata-specific Fleshmarket fight was nasty. Pure evil.

how the cosmic ancap(chaotic good) azata killing slavers and freeing slaves is evil?

 

[Daidre]

how the cosmic ancap(chaotic good) azata killing slavers and freeing slaves is evil?

Putting me between four hags that start with Horrid Wilting is evil. Not even mentioning that flying fleshblob with 65+ AC tearing through my frontline like a grass mower. I could dispel him, of course, but that means to survive until my caster's first round.

Talking about dispels, where the hell that myth "Enemies should prebuff more in WoTR" comes from? Everyone and their grandma in this city are buffed with 4-5 spells at least but most of the important specimens come with the list of 30+ buffs from the couple of classes. Pathetic Quasit, Latverk and that fleshblob from the market are prime examples.

Or it is the grand power of Core (with additional behaviors off by default) in action?

 

[perfectslumbers]

how the cosmic ancap(chaotic good) azata killing slavers and freeing slaves is evil?

Putting me between four hags that start with Horrid Wilting is evil. Not even mentioning that flying fleshblob with 65+ AC tearing through my frontline like a grass mower. I could dispel him, of course, but that means to survive until my caster's first round.

Talking about dispels, where the hell that hell myth "Enemies should prebuff more in WoTR" comes from? Everyone and their grandma in this city are buffed with 4-5 spells at least but most of the important specimens come with the list of 30+ buffs from the couple of classes. Pathetic Quasit, Latverk and that fleshblob from the market are prime examples.

Or it is the grand power of Core (with additional behaviors off by default) in action?

Nah enemies prebuff a ton, dunno why anyone would criticise the game for that. Additional behaviours adds fun things like dretches casting stinking cloud at your level 2 party, and babaus teleporting to your mages and one rounding them, and enemies spam dispelling your gishes.

 

[volklore]

So I am not ever doing unfair shield maze on a dex build without skipping water elly and a couple other of the harder encounter. I thought pick exotic prof : estoc would get me one as starting loot but nope. Generally speaking, I get lvl 3 a few cultist fights into the maze. But doing the entire thing without my finesse training weapon was sad as hell. Even then, Camelia with protective luck, Seelah with a dippy early game build and Wenduag were doing well, but the damage was sorely lacking.

 

[Daidre]

So I am not ever doing unfair shield maze on a dex build without skipping half the encounters. I thought pick exotic prof : estoc would get me one as starting loot but nope. Generally speaking, I get lvl 3 a few cultist fights into the maze. But doing the entire thing without my finesse training weapon .

My best plan for Unfair run - is to get Leopard a let it shine as DEX build with Magic Armor and Camelia's Protective Luck. Sad truth, I have no idea how to design the DEX build who would outperform that Leopard in its Attack/Defense capabilities until lvl 5 or so.

 

[perfectslumbers]

So I am not ever doing unfair shield maze on a dex build without skipping half the encounters. I thought pick exotic prof : estoc would get me one as starting loot but nope. Generally speaking, I get lvl 3 a few cultist fights into the maze. But doing the entire thing without my finesse training weapon .

My best plan to Unfair run - get Leopard a let it shine as DEX build with Magic Armor and Camelia's Protective Luck. Sad truth, I have no idea how to design the DEX build who would outperform that Leopard in its Attack/Defense capabilities until lvl 5 or so.

Usually i throw a pet on the companion i don't want to keep then throw them away asap.

The easiest way to do an unfair run is to max as many 1 level ac dips as possible on your mc and give Seelah a 2 hander. Unfair isn't too bad after the nerfs though, you can do it with any almost party now as long as you spam rest a lot and play smart. Before the nerfs grease would work maybe 1/10 times and a single cultist would take 15 reloads lmao.

 

[volklore]

You need dmg though, even protective luck on mutagened up crane stayle seelah, you sometimes get double 19 and die anyway. Without dmg fights take too long. Cultists are fine, it's the water elemental and high level mongrels that killed me.
If I got an estoc from the starting chest, I would've been fine with dex to dmg after the first few encounters in the maze.

Well I kinda screwed myself. I couldn't get a pet, because I want to use wenduag later on as dual wield axe thrower fighter (to use the double dipping weapon training in axes + throwind with dueling gloves) so I had to level her normally. The issue with shield maze is your buffing capacity is severly limited to lvl 1 spells and camellia level 2 spells. So no cat's grace.

 

[perfectslumbers]

You need dmg though, even protective luck on mutagened up crane stayle seelah, you sometimes get double 19 and die anyway. Without dmg fights take too long. Cultists are fine, it's the water elemental and high level mongrels that killed me.
If I got an estoc from the starting chest, I would've been fine with dex to dmg after the first few encounters in the maze.
Well I kinda screwed myself. I couldn't get a pet, because I want to use wenduag later on as dual wield axe thrower fighter (to use the double dipping weapon training in axes + throwind with dueling gloves) so I had to level her normally. The issue with shield maze is your buffing capacity is severly limited to lvl 1 spells and camellia level 2 spells. So no cat's grace.

Yeah, easy to have enough damage if you take Lann but then you have to play through the entire game with Lann which is pretty dire...

 

[volklore]

You need dmg though, even protective luck on mutagened up crane stayle seelah, you sometimes get double 19 and die anyway. Without dmg fights take too long. Cultists are fine, it's the water elemental and high level mongrels that killed me.
If I got an estoc from the starting chest, I would've been fine with dex to dmg after the first few encounters in the maze.
Well I kinda screwed myself. I couldn't get a pet, because I want to use wenduag later on as dual wield axe thrower fighter (to use the double dipping weapon training in axes + throwind with dueling gloves) so I had to level her normally. The issue with shield maze is your buffing capacity is severly limited to lvl 1 spells and camellia level 2 spells. So no cat's grace.

Yeah, easy to have enough damage if you take Lann but then you have to play through the entire game with Lann which is pretty dire...

Yeah I did that my last playthrough :D.
I can't even compare how much easier it was on a caster with 20 starting stat and double spell focus conjuration.
Gladly I am done with the maze, so I can finally go solo for a bit with millions of scrolls and UMD.

Maybe I should have given a pet to seelah and let her be at reach with a glaive. Was probably a better strat than having her tank with mutagen and crane style.

 

[volklore]

The easiest way to do an unfair run is to max as many 1 level ac dips as possible on your mc and give Seelah a 2 hander.

Yeah I know, but I am trying to get a build going (tested it solo in marketsquare from another save and it was fine), and I ain't dipping monk on a trickster build, unfair or not. Honestly would have been totally unnecessary with dex to dmg. Just protective luck on seelah with AC dips was enough (Maybe if could have gone witch dip instead of monk on her, but I might use her later so I don't want to ruin her build completely). Once cam get lvl 3 you can eagle splendor seelah for +3 ac vs the most dangerous enemy (usually big mongrel brawler) and that fixes it. Hosila funnily enough, was super easy, because she's alone.

What I want to do is a trickster mobility 2 rogue. Rn I am planning 4 Thug/12 Vivi/4 X. X can be 4 more vivi for 8 mutagen but there might be something better than 2 dex. Idea is to use mobility 2 trick to proc ton of AOO and since it forces enemies flat-footed (immune or not), it triggers sneak attacks and all on-sneak rogue talent (brutal beating, debilitating injury, crippling stike etc). It's an AOO spam build (combat reflexes) that needs to beat enemy CMD with mobility so I NEED to max out my DEX because I assume CMD can get pretty high on unfair.

I was thinking of doing this build on dex Sword Saint as well, I would get dex to dmg at lvl 3 all the same, and int to ac and the magus spell list would be great early (plus it has a good swift, which my other build doesn't have). However, no sneak means a lot less dmg probably, unless I find a good way to proc elemental barrage in a single attack (1 from weapon enchant and another from ?). Also I like that the rogue is a bit more team oriented with debuffs and skills.

 

[Haplo]

Arcane Weapon Enchant: Fire + Electric + Cold = Elemental Barrage. x2 if your weapon has a fourth element too.

Then you also get Bane Blade eventually for +2d6 damage (and +2 AB).
Holy and Axiomatic will offer +2d6 too (possibly 4d6 vs Chaotic Evil - but you'd likely be giving up Elemental Barrage - which wouldn't be worth it).
Lethal Focus adds Int mod vs Flat-Footed enemies (you have Shatter Defences, right?). Or well, that Mobility 2 trick should also do the job.
As a Sword Saint you qualify for weapon Specialization - and that's up to +7 with Mythic Spec.
Crits will be much more reliable with Critical Perfection and will hit harder with Perfect Critical.

A Sword Saint has no shortage of damage.
Will also have much easier time hitting tough enemies with Dimension Strike / Arcane Accuracy.

 

[Sharpedge]

You need dmg though, even protective luck on mutagened up crane stayle seelah, you sometimes get double 19 and die anyway. Without dmg fights take too long. Cultists are fine, it's the water elemental and high level mongrels that killed me.
If I got an estoc from the starting chest, I would've been fine with dex to dmg after the first few encounters in the maze.

Well I kinda screwed myself. I couldn't get a pet, because I want to use wenduag later on as dual wield axe thrower fighter (to use the double dipping weapon training in axes + throwind with dueling gloves) so I had to level her normally. The issue with shield maze is your buffing capacity is severly limited to lvl 1 spells and camellia level 2 spells. So no cat's grace.

Depends how you want to play. If you wish to play solo, the easiest way bar none to do the shield maze is to just give everyone who can cast arcane spells if they had ranks in an arcane school, levels in an arcane school and then spam magic missiles on absolutely every enemy. Since you will be ditching them all the moment you get out of the tutorial area, it isn't like it really matters that you butcher their class. If you are actually planning to run with companions, it is a bit more complicated since you don't really want to butcher their class.

 

[volklore]

Arcane Weapon Enchant: Fire + Electric + Cold = Elemental Barrage. x2 if your weapon has another element too.

Then you also get Bane Blade eventually for +2d6 damage (and +2 AB).
Holy and Axiomatic will offer +2d6 too (possibly 4d6 vs Chaotic Evil - but you'd likely be giving up Elemental Barrage - which wouldn't be worth it).
Lethal Focus adds Int mod vs Flat-Footed enemies (you have Shatter Defences, right?). Or well, that Mobility 2 trick should also do the job.
As a Sword Saint you qualify for weapon Specialization - and that's up to +7 with Mythic Spec.
Crits will be much more reliable with Critical Perfection and will hit harder with Perfect Critical.

A Sword Saint has no shortage of damage.
Will have much easier time hitting tough enemies with Dimension Strike / Arcane Accuracy too.

I don't need shatter because trickster mobility 2 forces enemies to flat flooted when you AOO them after an acrobatic movement check. Just to be clear with the build's working theoretically : You move out of an enemy threat range with acrobatic movement turned on (which now gives you extra movespeed thanks to mobility 1), if you succeed at the mobility check vs enemy CMD, you make an AOO against them and it targets flat-footed AC (from what I have read, regardless of Foresight, uncanny dodge or other FF immunities) and regardless of your own reach. Another thing about this, is that when you succeed at the mobility check, the enemy doesn't actually execute the AOO, you just zip out of its threat range, get the AOO for free and the enemy's 1 AOO per round counter is still at 1.
Which means that in theory:

1) I don't need shatter defenses since I will attack only through AOO and they will all target Flat footed AC. AB isn't that scares since I get full benefit from ever ready (Mythic lvl to AOO attack and damage rolls)
2) I don't care about BAB progression except for the attack bonus concern (and early game concerns), since I will almost never Full-round attack past mythic 4
3) The combo Mobility skill, Movespeed and DEX modifier is everything to this build. Determines how many times I can attack while moving, whether I get hit or not. Hence the Dex build. Its not ideal vs archers without snapshot but I'll have companions to handle those.
4) I would never need to use a standard action, unless I cannot beat CMD with mobility checks, just keep on zipping. Having a good swift would be nice though and SS has that covered.

The sword saint is interesting I will look at it more. What I don't like with the elemental barrage route is that I probably need to take some ascended element feats? I haven't played around with elemental barrage so I don't know much about how to build melees around that. Currently on the rogue, all I really need as far as mythic feats are concerned is Ever ready (since it's an AOO build) and mythic skill focus : mobility at M3-4 so I have space. Although I would love to get QoL stuff like rupture restraints in. Maxing out dex is important so I'd need to fit at least basic mutagen in. There is also the concern of getting class skills (I will probably go mobility 3 and trickery 2 with him so I have a good dispell for tough bosses) but I am sure I can figure out something.

Depends how you want to play. If you wish to play solo, the easiest way bar none to do the shield maze is to just give everyone who can cast arcane spells if they had ranks in an arcane school, levels in an arcane school and then spam magic missiles on absolutely every enemy. Since you will be ditching them all the moment you get out of the tutorial area, it isn't like it really matters that you butcher their class. If you are actually planning to run with companions, it is a bit more complicated since you don't really want to butcher their class.

Yeah I just want to go solo early for an exp bump. I won't go solo for very long. Maximum until lost chapel if I even make it there. Then I probably go with 4 man party, using companions I ignored on my first playthrough.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Putting me between four hags that start with Horrid Wilting is evil.

That and chain lightning casting reinforcements are the hardest part of that fight. I kill guards pretty quickly but that last minute lightning casters always down half of the party at least.

 

[purupuru]

So I am not ever doing unfair shield maze on a dex build without skipping water elly and a couple other of the harder encounter. I thought pick exotic prof : estoc would get me one as starting loot but nope. Generally speaking, I get lvl 3 a few cultist fights into the maze. But doing the entire thing without my finesse training weapon was sad as hell. Even then, Camelia with protective luck, Seelah with a dippy early game build and Wenduag were doing well, but the damage was sorely lacking.

I think you only get a specific starting weapon if you have weapon focus or your class gives you proficiency in deity's favorite weapon.
Scratch that, misinformation. I do remember I had an abandoned character that didn't get his proficient exotic though, faulty memory or buggy game, but at least now in 1.1 exotic proficiency should give a cold iron weapon at the start.

 

[Haplo]

1) I don't need shatter defenses since I will attack only through AOO and they will all target Flat footed AC. AB isn't that scares since I get full benefit from ever ready (Mythic lvl to AOO attack and damage rolls)
2) I don't care about BAB progression except for the attack bonus concern (and early game concerns), since I will almost never Full-round attack past mythic 4
3) The combo Mobility skill, Movespeed and DEX modifier is everything to this build. Determines how many times I can attack while moving, whether I get hit or not. Hence the Dex build. Its not ideal vs archers without snapshot but I'll have companions to handle those.
4) I would never need to use a standard action, unless I cannot beat CMD with mobility checks, just keep on zipping. Having a good swift would be nice though and SS has that covered.

The sword saint is interesting I will look at it more. What I don't like with the elemental barrage route is that I probably need to take some ascended element feats? I haven't played around with elemental barrage so I don't know much about how to build melees around that. Currently on the rogue, all I really need as far as mythic feats are concerned is Ever ready (since it's an AOO build) and mythic skill focus : mobility at M3-4 so I have space. Although I would love to get QoL stuff like rupture restraints in. Maxing out dex is important so I'd need to fit at least basic mutagen in. There is also the concern of getting class skills (I will probably go mobility 3 and trickery 2 with him so I have a good dispell for tough bosses) but I am sure I can figure out something.

Then you should be very happy with Superior Reflexes - additional AoOs per round equal to Int modifier (that should stack with Combat Reflexes and Ever Ready).

And no, Elemental Barrage does not require Ascended Elements. It is also triggered on elemental damage reduced to 0. Unless its a bug - then it could be fixed - eventually.

Hah, actually now I'm thinking about playing such a character myself. Oh well, gotta finish my current angel charger first.

 

[mediocrepoet]

So I am not ever doing unfair shield maze on a dex build without skipping water elly and a couple other of the harder encounter. I thought pick exotic prof : estoc would get me one as starting loot but nope. Generally speaking, I get lvl 3 a few cultist fights into the maze. But doing the entire thing without my finesse training weapon was sad as hell. Even then, Camelia with protective luck, Seelah with a dippy early game build and Wenduag were doing well, but the damage was sorely lacking.

I think you only get a specific starting weapon if you have weapon focus or your class gives you proficiency in deity's favorite weapon.

Focus, chosen weapon (like Saint, deity's favoured, etc.), and exotic all give you that weapon.

 

[volklore]

Then you should be very happy with Superior Reflexes - additional AoOs per round equal to Int modifier (that should stack with Combat Reflexes and Ever Ready).

And no, Elemental Barrage does not require Ascended Elements. It is also triggered on elemental damage reduced to 0. Unless its a bug - then it could be fixed - eventually.

Hah, actually now I'm thinking about playing such a character myself. Oh well, gotta finish my current angel charger first.

Hmm.
Okay then, if Elemental barrage works when resists reduce it to 0 then sword saint is probably best overall. I guess I might go through shield maze again in the end :D