Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Yosharian]

Archetypes are so fucking all over the place in terms of balance, it's really irritating.

 

[Cryomancer]

The problem with lichdoom is. How to implement the phylactery mechanics into the game?

 

[Xamenos]

Anione know if necromancy, undead creation and etc will be amazing as PF:KM1? Or if they will put a one summon limit and remove spells like Finger of Death

The spells, mechanics, etc will be the same, still based on Pathfinder. You also get to be a MOTHERFUCKING LICH and replace your companions with undead abominations. How many other games allow you to do that?

 

[Technomancer]

The problem with lichdoom is. How to implement the phylactery mechanics into the game?

Are there complicated rules in the source? I don't think there is a problem. They will make it part of the main quest. The smart thing to do is to graft large phylactery behind your ribcage.

 

[Xamenos]

The problem with lichdoom is. How to implement the phylactery mechanics into the game?

Are there complicated rules in the source? I don't think there is a problem. They will make it part of the main quest. The smart thing to do is to graft large phylactery behind your ribcage.

When a lich is destroyed, its body slowly reforms near its phylactery. If the phylactery is destroyed, the lich runs out of extra lives. Placing it inside one's chest would be tremendously unhelpful.

And I imagine they'll integrate the phylactery with the quest chain that makes you a lich, and have it automatically placed in the capital or something.

 

[Technomancer]

When a lich is destroyed, its body slowly reforms near its phylactery. If the phylactery is destroyed, the lich runs out of extra lives. Placing it inside one's chest would be tremendously unhelpful.

And I imagine they'll integrate the phylactery with the quest chain that makes you a lich, and have it automatically placed in the capital or something.

I knew you would say that but I just can't fathom this logic. It always backfires. You create this magical artifact that grants you immortality but then hide it only for it to be found. It always happens. Even in real-life legends about the undead. Koshey the Immortal? If I had a thingie like that I would never allow it to leave my presence.

 

[Xamenos]

When a lich is destroyed, its body slowly reforms near its phylactery. If the phylactery is destroyed, the lich runs out of extra lives. Placing it inside one's chest would be tremendously unhelpful.

And I imagine they'll integrate the phylactery with the quest chain that makes you a lich, and have it automatically placed in the capital or something.

I knew you would say that but I just can't fathom this logic. It always backfires. You create this magical artifact that grants you immortality but then hide it only for it to be found. It always happens. Even in real-life legends about the undead. Koshey the Immortal? If I had a thingie like that I would never allow it to leave my presence.

What is there to fathom? The phylactery protects you if you are destroyed. It defeats its purpose to have it with you, as it will also be automatically destroyed. Hiding it somewhere else gives you a chance at least.

 

[Cryomancer]

Can a lich get laid and romance options on pathfinder universe? If i will become a king, i wanna descendents

On Age of Conan you canget a STD as a Lich

 

[Ontopoly]

Man this KS would be at 2 million already if reddit /r/games mods didn't delete the TB update and leave the usual shit threads up.

Literal cancer website. They're so busy jerking themselves off and down voting everything they slightly disagree with. Read the rules on that subreddit. I even remember the guy who posted the turn based update saying something like " I hope the mods accept this post. I figured its a significant enough update. " Why would you go on a forum where you're literally afraid of voicing your opinion on a video game because the mods are power hungry and like to go full dictatorship?

 

[Technomancer]

When a lich is destroyed, its body slowly reforms near its phylactery. If the phylactery is destroyed, the lich runs out of extra lives. Placing it inside one's chest would be tremendously unhelpful.

And I imagine they'll integrate the phylactery with the quest chain that makes you a lich, and have it automatically placed in the capital or something.

I knew you would say that but I just can't fathom this logic. It always backfires. You create this magical artifact that grants you immortality but then hide it only for it to be found. It always happens. Even in real-life legends about the undead. Koshey the Immortal? If I had a thingie like that I would never allow it to leave my presence.

What is there to fathom? The phylactery protects you if you are destroyed. It defeats its purpose to have it with you, as it will also be automatically destroyed. Hiding it somewhere else gives you a chance at least.

A chance that never happens. Voldemort as another example. Not exactly an undead but he had 7 phylacteries. The only time I saw phylactery work is in pillars when lich grafted a phylactery in his skull.

And I imagine they'll integrate the phylactery with the quest chain that makes you a lich, and have it automatically placed in the capital or something.

Yeah, so in-game the phylactery does not matter because they can't allow the main character to die anyway. I doubt they will do a subplot in which your allies try to possess your phylactery as a contingency. So I don't think there will be any mechanics with it. If they kill you most will simply reload rather than role play it, reforming in the capital and doing the busywork.

 

[Xamenos]

When a lich is destroyed, its body slowly reforms near its phylactery. If the phylactery is destroyed, the lich runs out of extra lives. Placing it inside one's chest would be tremendously unhelpful.

And I imagine they'll integrate the phylactery with the quest chain that makes you a lich, and have it automatically placed in the capital or something.

I knew you would say that but I just can't fathom this logic. It always backfires. You create this magical artifact that grants you immortality but then hide it only for it to be found. It always happens. Even in real-life legends about the undead. Koshey the Immortal? If I had a thingie like that I would never allow it to leave my presence.

What is there to fathom? The phylactery protects you if you are destroyed. It defeats its purpose to have it with you, as it will also be automatically destroyed. Hiding it somewhere else gives you a chance at least.

A chance that never happens. Voldemort as another example. Not exactly an undead but he had 7 phylacteries. The only time I saw phylactery work is in pillars when lich grafted a phylactery in his skull.

And if Voldemort didn't have these phylacteries, he'd have been truly dead when Harry was a baby and even if he wasn't, Dumbledore would have just creamed him the moment he showed his face without having to go to the trouble to look for these phylacteries first and get cursed in the process.

Seriously, can you give me one hypothetical example where a hidden phylactery wouldn't work but having it with you would? I'm not asking much, just to think up one single example.

I should have realised you're a Pillars fun from the idiocy you espouse. I don't remember that lich though. Where was it? And did its skull-phylactery allow it to survive destruction?

 

[Ontopoly]

A chance that never happens. Voldemort as another example. Not exactly an undead but he had 7 phylacteries. The only time I saw phylactery work is in pillars when lich grafted a phylactery in his skull.

It would have worked if he wasn't dicking around making everybody hate him. He should have been content to live forever in a nice estate or something.

 

[ga♥]

The romances in kingmaker weren't super lengthy or involved. More options means more chances for something like tiefling waifus, and I doubt it'll be an expensive goal.

Incidentally I'm on my second Kingmaker playthrough and after paying closer attention to their dialog I'm trying to get Regongar to kill Octavia in the funhouse. I changed my mind, whoever said she was the worst companion was right.

You have to romance regongar to achieve that.

How he kills her exactly and why? I'm curious but I really don't want to sleep with orcs just to find out. No info on the web.

Spoiler

At the HATEOT Nyrissa will take the shape of Janus, their master, and summon flames in the cells they are imprisoned. Only way to escape is for one of them to sacrifice the other. It is an illusion but if you romanced one of them, the other will die (unless it got changed in some later patches).
If no romance, they both recognize the illusion, won't play by Nyrissa rules and both survive.

 

[Technomancer]

Seriously, can you give me one hypothetical example where a hidden phylactery wouldn't work but having it with you would? I'm not asking much, just to think up one single example.

I'm just saying that phylactery is a crutch and for a truly powerful being is mostly pointless. It works very well for small fly liches I agree but if you are a demigod and they really want to make you gone will it help? Like they have these things in the setting that keep balance, Aeons? And the whole demonic invasion counts as balance violation apparently. So if you beat that as a lich and claim the territory as your undead domain you will be next on the list. Can you beat time-travel as a lich? Can't aeon just teleport to your phylactery and take it away? Or can you really hide it so well that absolutely no one can reach it? Or know about it, not even the gods? I should have explained it better but my point was that ultimately in a situation where lich is powerful enough to raise armies and conquer nations it is pointless to hide it. If you are not powerful enough to prevent your physical destruction you are dead anyway because they will find it eventually. So if it is you vs the world might as well just hide it within you, makes no difference in the long run. You get one shot in your conquest true but at least you will be sure that no one will steal your victory behind your back.

I should have realised you're a Pillars fun from the idiocy you espouse. I don't remember that lich though. Where was it? And did its skull-phylactery allow it to survive destruction?

Not a fan. It's from white march dlc I think? Concelhaut or whatever. I don't think it explains it that well if at all. If you keep his skull you just keep it as a pet and he escapes when your castle is destroyed. You could, however, give it to a legendary archmage, for some reason she could not destroy it. I think they just wanted to bring him back, fuck the lore and common sense.

 

[Efe]

you are one of those paranoid types huh?

 

[Xamenos]

Seriously, can you give me one hypothetical example where a hidden phylactery wouldn't work but having it with you would? I'm not asking much, just to think up one single example.

I'm just saying that phylactery is a crutch and for a truly powerful being is mostly pointless. It works very well for small fly liches I agree but if you are a demigod and they really want to make you gone will it help? Like they have these things in the setting that keep balance, Aeons? And the whole demonic invasion counts as balance violation apparently. So if you beat that as a lich and claim the territory as your undead domain you will be next on the list. Can you beat time-travel as a lich? Can't aeon just teleport to your phylactery and take it away? Or can you really hide it so well that absolutely no one can reach it? Or know about it, not even the gods? I should have explained it better but my point was that ultimately in a situation where lich is powerful enough to raise armies and conquer nations it is pointless to hide it. If you are not powerful enough to prevent your physical destruction you are dead anyway because they will find it eventually. So if it is you vs the world might as well just hide it within you, makes no difference in the long run. You get one shot in your conquest true but at least you will be sure that no one will steal your victory behind your back.

Counterpoint 1: Vecna, the most famous lich of DnD. Was betrayed and his body was destroyed by his lieutenant, Kas. Survived, reformed, and ultimately became a god. Would have been screwed if he carried the phylactery with him.
Counterpoint 2: The Whispering Tyrant, the most powerful lich of Pathfinder. Was defeated by an ancient crusade, but the crusaders were unable to find his phylactery. They had to imprison his soul in an island in the middle of the continent and everyone fears he might escape some day. Would have been screwed if he carried the phylactery with him.
Sorta counter point 3 (through infinity): There's an old DnD 3.5 adventure where the players invade the palace of Vlaakith, the Lich Queen of the Githyanki. Her phylactery is hidden, warded against divination magic, and defended by a miniboss. There's also a decoy phylactery that's marginally
more accessible. If the players fuck up and fail to find it, Vlaakith returns and the adventure was for nothing. And that's only a single example, every lich ever encountered in a PnP adventure had a phylactery that the players had to find and destroy separately. Sometimes destroying the phylactery was as complicated as throwing the One Ring into Mount Doom.

And your way of thinking is... odd to say the least. You have accepted the out-of-universe truth that the villain always loses to such an extent that you can't even fathom the villain making an effort to not lose as anything but wasted effort. If hiding and protecting your phylactery is pointless because the heroes will find and destroy it, it is equally pointless to march your legions of death and try to conquer the world because the heroes will stop you. I somehow don't think you apply the same criteria to every villain's plan. And your phrase"steal your victory behind your back" makes me thing you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, as destroying the phylactery doesn't immediately destroy the lich. You still have to do that the old-fashioned way.

I should have realised you're a Pillars fun from the idiocy you espouse. I don't remember that lich though. Where was it? And did its skull-phylactery allow it to survive destruction?

Not a fan. It's from white march dlc I think? Concelhaut or whatever. I don't think it explains it that well if at all. If you keep his skull you just keep it as a pet and he escapes when your castle is destroyed. You could, however, give it to a legendary archmage, for some reason she could not destroy it.

I'm not sure what the relevance is then. It must be the only phylactery in a story that fell into the heroes' hands and wasn't destroyed. "For some reason it was indestructible" is neither compelling, nor true for any other phylactery ever.

 

[Technomancer]

Counterpoint 1: Vecna, the most famous lich of DnD. Was betrayed and his body was destroyed by his lieutenant, Kas. Survived, reformed, and ultimately became a god. Would have been screwed if he carried the phylactery with him.
Counterpoint 2: The Whispering Tyrant, the most powerful lich of Pathfinder. Was defeated by an ancient crusade, but the crusaders were unable to find his phylactery. They had to imprison his soul in an island in the middle of the continent and everyone fears he might escape some day. Would have been screwed if he carried the phylactery with him.
Sorta counter point 3 (through infinity): There's an old DnD 3.5 adventure where the players invade the palace of Vlaakith, the Lich Queen of the Githyanki. Her phylactery is hidden, warded against divination magic, and defended by a miniboss. There's also a decoy phylactery that's marginally
more accessible. If the players fuck up and fail to find it, Vlaakith returns and the adventure was for nothing. And that's only a single example, every lich ever encountered in a PnP adventure had a phylactery that the players had to find and destroy separately. Sometimes destroying the phylactery was as complicated as throwing the One Ring into Mount Doom.

And your way of thinking is... odd to say the least. You have accepted the out-of-universe truth that the villain always loses to such an extent that you can't even fathom the villain making an effort to not lose as anything but wasted effort. If hiding and protecting your phylactery is pointless because the heroes will find and destroy it, it is equally pointless to march your legions of death and try to conquer the world because the heroes will stop you. I somehow don't think you apply the same criteria to every villain's plan. And your phrase"steal your victory behind your back" makes me thing you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, as destroying the phylactery doesn't immediately destroy the lich. You still have to do that the old-fashioned way.

Gave it some more thought before your post and I think usefulness of the phylactery boils down to notoriety:

Generic lich
comparatively weak - fears true death
realizes this, plans for failure - hides phylactery
low notoriety - beneath the notice of major powers divine or mortal, no one will fund a campaign searching for a phylactery of a minor lich

Because of that hidden phylactery works and allows him to conduct wars of attrition and win by relying on his perseverance.

Mythic lich
powerful enough to face demigods and conquer kingdoms
a threat to the nations of mortals and the balance of the world - undead hating gods are likely to intervene and divine location of the phylactery, crusading mortals are hellbent on finding it
because the lich is infamous phylactery is likely to be found, hiding it means more harm than good, at this point it's a weakness to be exploited

Since failure is not an option, the only thing left to do is to go all-in, get it all or lose everything.

But I concur, you are obviously by far more knowledgeable on DnD lore than I. And some points you made are indeed new to me and I did not consider them.

 

[Technomancer]

I'm not sure what the relevance is then. It must be the only phylactery in a story that fell into the heroes' hands and wasn't destroyed. "For some reason it was indestructible" is neither compelling, nor true for any other phylactery ever.

Ah, now I remember, I was wrong. You can not actually give up the phylactery, it always stays with you as a pet. Llengrath archmage bloodline achieved pseudo-immortality by experience and soul transfer and his last inheritor really hated that Concelhaut achieved true immortality by such abominable means. I think in-universe he is also the first maker of the phylactery making him the first true lich. Current Llengrath hated the whole concept of phylactery so much that she wanted to destroy it and to ensure that it could never be replicated. But in-game you can either kill her or form an alliance by soul sharing. Apparently, after that, she is fully content leaving his fully sentient skull-phylactery in your care which is pretty moronic. Not only he is the first lich but he almost discovered time magic.

 

[Xamenos]

Gave it some more thought before your post and I think usefulness of the phylactery boils down to notoriety:

Generic lich
comparatively weak - fears true death
realizes this, plans for failure - hides phylactery
low notoriety - beneath the notice of major powers divine or mortal, no one will fund a campaign searching for a phylactery of a minor lich

Because of that hidden phylactery works and allows him to conduct wars of attrition and win by relying on his perseverance.

Mythic lich
powerful enough to face demigods and conquer kingdoms
a threat to the nations of mortals and the balance of the world - undead hating gods are likely to intervene and divine location of the phylactery, crusading mortals are hellbent on finding it
because the lich is infamous phylactery is likely to be found, hiding it means more harm than good, at this point it's a weakness to be exploited

Since failure is not an option, the only thing left to do is to go all-in, get it all or lose everything.

But I concur, you are obviously by far more knowledgeable on DnD lore than I. And some points you made are indeed new to me and I did not consider them.

At least we finally agree on the generic liches, but you are still massively overestimating the importance of "notoriety". More powerful liches do invite more powerful opponents, but they are at the same time much better equipped to hide and protect their phylactery. Again, Vecna and The Whispering Tyrant were the most powerful and "infamous" liches in the HISTORY of their respective settings. If there were cases justifying direct divine interventions and pulling all stops to find the phylactery, it was them. And the forces of good failed both times. Going "all in" instead of hiding the phylactery could only possibly help if it actually improved your chances of conquering the world, and you haven't even dared to offer a hypothetical example of this being the case.

Also

hiding it means more harm than good, at this point it's a weakness to be exploited

FUCKING HOW? I told you before, and you apparently ignored it. Hiding your phylactery is always and strictly better than having it with you. If you have it with you, all it takes is for the heroes to defeat you and you're dead for good. But if you hide it they have to defeat you AND find the phylactery. It is by necessity more difficult than just defeating you.

RE: Pillars skullfucker lich: Yet more completely idiotic Pillars writing, as I suspected. Not even worth the effort to respond.

 

[Technomancer]

FUCKING HOW? I told you before, and you apparently ignored it.

I told you that I wrote that before your post. So yes I ignored it. I read it and you convinced me.

 

[Xamenos]

FUCKING HOW? I told you before, and you apparently ignored it.

I told you that I wrote that before your post. So yes I ignored it. I read it and you convinced me.

Did you? I apologize then, I missed it.

 

[Ruchy]

And what if it is "+2 RACIAL OPTIONS"?

This actually makes a lot of sense if you interpret it to mean +2 Racial traits.
Quite easily achieved as well.

 

[Ontopoly]

What ap do you think they will release next? I hope it's Carrion crown. I want vampires and undead and spooky stuff. Maybe a nice Goth gf romance.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Just noticed that somebody took the last $4000 Design an NPC tier. Create an NPC Face is now the only remaining high tier (with 4 slots).

You keep making these posts about tiers filling up like we are bound by the rules. In Mother Russia money makes the rules.

 

[Yosharian]

Why the fuck is a mythic lich's phylactery more likely to be found? Likely such a creature would have almost limitless power in terms of how well they could hide it.