Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Desiderius]

Vote Ratfolk! Vote COVID-19! Vote Ratfolk and lick your friendly neighborhood Chinese today!

 

[Desiderius]

Also negative energy is not a moral alignment,sure it could fuck you up,but that shouldn't make your alignment.

For the longest fucking time, I assumed that Necromancy was evil because it channeled Negative Energy, and I believed that this was the same reason why Evil Clerics only could channel Negative Energy (and vice versa), and so on. But then it turned out that no, in D&D, Forgotten Realms, and Pathfinder/Golarion, since pretty much fucking forever (I had to dig deep for some of the references), Negative Energy (and Positive Energy) are explicitly not aligned forces.

And ever since I learned that, I have no idea where the idea that virtually all Necromancy spells are intrinsically Evil stems from. It's in the rules, sure enough, but I'm not sure what the logic is, especially since in many settings, you don't really fuck around with living souls, either. Even Create Undead and shit like that are basically just animated force, not like in some settings where you rip people from the afterlife by force. Many basic-bitch undead in Pathfinder are even Neutral, not even Neutral Evil (although those raised by necromancy are classified as Neutral Evil... again, for some reason).

It's easily addressed by just flat-out stating that Negative Energy, as an entropic force, is inherently "Evil" or something, but none of the big dicks ever do or did. It's how I'd handle it, at least. Or something to that effect. I'm perfectly fine with Liches being inherently Evil. I just want an explanation as to why in the context of the universe.

It bothers me more than it should.

Ask yourself why organisms go to the trouble of reproducing at all and you will eventually reach your answer. Start with Genesis, eventually reach Revelation. The usual.

 

[Desiderius]

It was decided (passive voice intentional) that Negative Energy isn't akshually Evil via the usual nihilist wuss out.

 

[santino27]

Rats and fire ants rank high on top of my least favorite things. On a completely related note, they also rank high on the list of things most likely to consume my decaying body when I'm convalescing in a nursing home. (Cats would rank up there too if cats were allowed in nursing homes.)

So what I'm saying is... vote kitsune!

 

[Pink Eye]

santino27 What interview? You said something about a interview being posted?

 

[InD_ImaginE]

More or less is about throwing money and bonding your soul to the phylactery. I don't see how doing something evil could make you in to lich.

Usually what you did is some horrific shit to become a lich.

And to maintain your phylactery you need to literally feed it souls which destorys them. It is inherently evil action. The lich itself can be a chill ass dude that drinks beer with you but he will do so while "Dude, wait a minute okay. I need destroy these people's souls. Be right back"

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Rats are pest barely better than cockroaches. The world probably will be better if both are completely gone.

 

[Ghulgothas]

I hope that if you go Lich as a dwarf, gnome or halfling*, characters will call attention to how your new form is taller than it was before.

*

Spoiler

And ratfolk

 

[LannTheStupid]

Start with Genesis, eventually reach Revelation.

So we are judging imaginary world(s) by the standards of real world religions now? And not any religion, but explicitly Christianity?

Vote Kitsune and let Christian prudes seize and die.

 

[santino27]

santino27 What interview? You said something about a interview being posted?

https://wccftech.com/pathfinder-wra...ources/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Owlcat tweeted about it this morning, but it's from march 6th, so I wasn't sure if it had been posted here and I just missed it. Tytus flagged it as old, so I'm guessing so.

 

[vortex]

This is what rat lich would look like only more ominous.

 

[Reinhardt]

 

[Xamenos]

And to maintain your phylactery you need to literally feed it souls which destorys them.

This is 5e lore. Because apparently liches weren't evil enough already. I don't think anyone here accepts it as part of canon, like all the other retcons of the past decade or so.

Also negative energy is not a moral alignment,sure it could fuck you up,but that shouldn't make your alignment.

For the longest fucking time, I assumed that Necromancy was evil because it channeled Negative Energy, and I believed that this was the same reason why Evil Clerics only could channel Negative Energy (and vice versa), and so on. But then it turned out that no, in D&D, Forgotten Realms, and Pathfinder/Golarion, since pretty much fucking forever (I had to dig deep for some of the references), Negative Energy (and Positive Energy) are explicitly not aligned forces.

And ever since I learned that, I have no idea where the idea that virtually all Necromancy spells are intrinsically Evil stems from. It's in the rules, sure enough, but I'm not sure what the logic is, especially since in many settings, you don't really fuck around with living souls, either. Even Create Undead and shit like that are basically just animated force, not like in some settings where you rip people from the afterlife by force. Many basic-bitch undead in Pathfinder are even Neutral, not even Neutral Evil (although those raised by necromancy are classified as Neutral Evil... again, for some reason).

It's easily addressed by just flat-out stating that Negative Energy, as an entropic force, is inherently "Evil" or something, but none of the big dicks ever do or did. It's how I'd handle it, at least. Or something to that effect. I'm perfectly fine with Liches being inherently Evil. I just want an explanation as to why in the context of the universe.

It bothers me more than it should.

Well, fuck. A very cursory glance at my Planescape books didn't lead me to the slam dunk "Negative Energy is inherently evil" that I expected. I'll have to go deeper.

 

[Desiderius]

Start with Genesis, eventually reach Revelation.

So we are judging imaginary world(s) by the standards of real world religions now? And not any religion, but explicitly Christianity?

Vote Kitsune and let Christian prudes seize and die.

You can always choose the other entendre if you prefer to walk in darkness.

Prudence can of course enhance reproductive fitness, but the imaginary prudery that so gets your blood flowing with dreams of dominance, rape, and pillage does so because it detracts from that fitness, leaving the people who practice it weak and easy prey. True Christians don't, as you'd discover to your dismay should you ever choose to act on your lazy bigotry.

 

[Desiderius]

Well, fuck. A very cursory glance at my Planescape books didn't lead me to the slam dunk "Negative Energy is inherently evil" that I expected. I'll have to go deeper.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_destruction

 

[BarbequeMasta]

santino27 What interview? You said something about a interview being posted?

https://wccftech.com/pathfinder-wra...ources/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Owlcat tweeted about it this morning, but it's from march 6th, so I wasn't sure if it had been posted here and I just missed it. Tytus flagged it as old, so I'm guessing so.

Thanks for sharing.
This faggot asking so much about console versions is triggering my consolisation PTSD....

 

[LannTheStupid]

Rats are pest barely better than cockroaches. The world probably will be better if both are completely gone.

Well, the reason there are so many rats and cockroaches is because humankind provides them plenty of food and sustenance. So to drastically decrease their numbers start from the root cause - kill humans. I think if there were about 1000 times less humans than there are now all synanthropic animals would suffer.

Come to think of it, the most human-independent animals out of 3 are foxes. Rats and mice are with humans since the discovery of agriculture; cats are of two kinds now - pet cats and dying out cats. Most of the foxes are not domesticated (with famous exception in Siberia), so they either live in the wild or grow in fur farms to be killed.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I plan to change my Codex portrait accordingly when I become a lich in WotR.

 

[Lacrymas]

There are Archliches since AD&D.

 

[fantadomat]

Also negative energy is not a moral alignment,sure it could fuck you up,but that shouldn't make your alignment.

For the longest fucking time, I assumed that Necromancy was evil because it channeled Negative Energy, and I believed that this was the same reason why Evil Clerics only could channel Negative Energy (and vice versa), and so on. But then it turned out that no, in D&D, Forgotten Realms, and Pathfinder/Golarion, since pretty much fucking forever (I had to dig deep for some of the references), Negative Energy (and Positive Energy) are explicitly not aligned forces.

And ever since I learned that, I have no idea where the idea that virtually all Necromancy spells are intrinsically Evil stems from. It's in the rules, sure enough, but I'm not sure what the logic is, especially since in many settings, you don't really fuck around with living souls, either. Even Create Undead and shit like that are basically just animated force, not like in some settings where you rip people from the afterlife by force. Many basic-bitch undead in Pathfinder are even Neutral, not even Neutral Evil (although those raised by necromancy are classified as Neutral Evil... again, for some reason).

It's easily addressed by just flat-out stating that Negative Energy, as an entropic force, is inherently "Evil" or something, but none of the big dicks ever do or did. It's how I'd handle it, at least. Or something to that effect. I'm perfectly fine with Liches being inherently Evil. I just want an explanation as to why in the context of the universe.

It bothers me more than it should.

Well, fuck. A very cursory glance at my Planescape books didn't lead me to the slam dunk "Negative Energy is inherently evil" that I expected. I'll have to go deeper.

Well,alignment is based on the moral points of the soul, while negative energy is like different type of electricity,if you cross it with normal electricity you get a burn out . As for spells,well they are not evil,but the act of doing them are,the same way a knife or a gun is not evil. The rituals from what i have seen have nothing to do with being evil,now the path you have to walk to find it is a different thing,but in the end it is still a choice. For all you know you could just stumble upon it. In the end my point is that the player becoming X being should be an alignment change. After all alignment is based on the moral of your actions and not on the form of your meatsack.

That said i have no problem with the general alignment system fro monsters.

 

[Lacrymas]

Necromancy in Forgotten Realms has always been "evil" because the gods have decreed it is evil (how they know that or why they decided it is is unknown), the existence of archliches in this context doesn't really make sense unless morality is relative which we know that in the FR universe it isn't, sooooo beats me.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

the path you have to walk to find it is a different thing,but in the end it is still a choice. For all you know you could just stumble upon it. In the end my point is that the player becoming X being should be an alignment change. After all alignment is based on the moral of your actions and not on the form of your meatsack.

Somewhat related to this - am I the only one who was annoyed with the trials in ToB which could result in an alignment change? Especially infuriating if playing a Paladin since I do not believe that all of the 'evil' choices (such as the one with the dragon) should result in a fall.

 

[fantadomat]

There are Archliches since AD&D.

LoL that is a retarded name buahahahaha. Arch in generally means grand,a higher title than the median one of the chosen profession. An archlich is in de facto a demilich. It should have been something along the lines of lumenlich. Buahahahaha it just shows that the quality of D&D's modern writer. It is quite ironical really,D&D was based on ancient roman and greek mythos and its writers/creator were/are well versed in both languages. Now we have retards that don't even know the basic meaning of words and throw them left and right.

 

[fantadomat]

Necromancy in Forgotten Realms has always been "evil" because the gods have decreed it is evil (how they know that or why they decided it is is unknown), the existence of archliches in this context doesn't really make sense unless morality is relative which we know that in the FR universe it isn't, sooooo beats me.

That doesn't make sense since in the D&D setting the gods are not much different than liches,they are just another type of arcane/divine powers.

 

[Lacrymas]

it just shows that the quality of D&D's modern writer.

That's from second edition.