PC Gamer says that Levitation is out.

[yipsl]

Personally, I hope this is another "Doris the Dunmer Lunch Lady" moment. Here's the latest thread at the official forums speculating on what's going on:

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... try3703696

I wrote the following:

IMHO, it could be a mistake by PC Gamer. They were the ones who saw the male Dunmer smith as a woman in their first preview. On the other hand, it could have been cut by the devs, for whatever reason. Regardless of past dev comments, something isn't in until they say it is.

As far as it goes, there's no explanation here about what's going on, so I'll check over at RPG Codex and see if MSFD provides some info. My gut feeling is that it's out and whatever technical reasons which may be cited it comes down to a possible confusion in the mainstream community, the same people who could not find Caius in Balmora. I can imagine them saying "what, I can fly up to the city and see inside, but I can't fly in?"

We'll see...I'll just add that I loved levitation in Daggerfall, I loved to enter cities that way and then land on a roof as the spell blinkered off, then jump down. I also used levitation quite a bit in Morrowind and Bloodmoon. It will be missed.

No mark and recall, no levitation, no unarmoured, no melee staves, no joinable religious faction...perhaps for the devs and their wondrous polls of mainstream fans, it really all does come down to just a knight riding around on a horse, running around killing things?

Perhaps we can have some discussion, and maybe confirmation here at the Codex. I for one, prefer characters with much levity in every possible way. Those dour knights are just way too serious.

 

[Balor]

Well, levitation was kinda overpowered to begin with. However, I felt it should be fixed, not removed altogether... yet, it seems to get into habit for Bethsoft - cut everyting that will take too much to fix or implement.

 

[Lumpy]

I won't mind if Levitation was removed. Maybe they had a decent reason to do that, and maybe we'll get more challenging dungeons now, that we can't just levitate anywhere.
Also, if they added a decent number of new spells, which it seems that they did, there won't be any problem. The new spells might be as interesting as levitation, at leat, Reanimate is a great spell, and something that should have been in TES all along. In fact, it even contradicted lore that you couldn't resurrect people, while many other wizards seemed to be able to, and it was even quite a common practice among the Telvanni. I would have traded Levitate for Reanimate any day.

 

[Lumpy]

Well, levitation was kinda overpowered to begin with. However, I felt it should be fixed, not removed altogether... yet, it seems to get into habit for Bethsoft - cut everyting that will take too much to fix or implement.

It would be almost impossible to fix levitation. Well, not really, but if it cost a lot to cast, to balance it with other 100% avoidance spells like Chameleon 100%, it would become useless outside of combat.

EDIT: Here are some fragments from that hands on preview, posted by Domino:

...and judging from my experience, they (the quests) offer more depth than the "FedEx" or "kill so-and-so" quests handed out in most RPGs. In one Dark Broterhood quest, for example, I infiltrated a dinner party and used various means to isolate and eliminate guests one at a time. The remaining guests dynamically reacted to the assassinations - accusing each other or equipping themselves for battle.

When I later decided to explore the cult-like, insular community of Hackdirt, one of the smaller settlements that dot the landscape, I found the populace gathered at their local church. Angered by the frosty reception I recieved, I tossed their holy book aside and gave the priest a knuckle sandwich. As expected, most of the citizens rallied to defend their preacher, but I was suprised to see one unarmed citizen bolt out the door. Once I had worn out my welcome, I casually left the church... Unfortunately for me, I stumbled across another change from Morrowind - NPCs will now follow you through loading zones. The cultists didn't abandon their chase, and more amazing, the "coward" who fled the church returned brandishing a sword retrieved from his home."

Inhabitants engage in a host of mundane activities, such as reading, eating, and gosspiping. They'll notice trespassing or stealing, and your cursor helpfully changes to a red hand icon to warn you if messing with an object is unwelcome.

Enemies are challenging and act intelligently in battle. As in Daggerfall (but not Morrowind), creatures and items you encounter are automatically balanced to your level. So, for instance, you can't just grab an overpowered Daedric sword by sneaking into a high-level dungeon.

When I wandered into a crypt that happened to be a vampire lair - yes, you can choose to become a vampire - I was amazed at the intelligent tactics of its undead denizens. When they detected my presence, which I could have avoided if I took advantage of Oblivion's stealth system, they cast an invisibility spell and surrounded me before launching a suprise attack.

This statue represents Akatosh, the Dragon God and divine patron of the Empire. Citizens of the Imperial City often say "meet me at the Dragon" as shorthand for a convenient rendezvous landmark.

The White Gold Tower is the tallest structure in Cryodill. A grand relic of the Ancient Ayleid culture's First Era occupation of the region, it has served in modern times as the Palace of the Imperial Emperors and an icon of the Imperial City.

The moon-and-star image on the hotel sign is a convenient indication to the illiterate barbarian that a night's rest may be purchased here. Though what an illiterate barbarian would be doing seeking a bed in the best hotel in the Imperial City is anybody's guess.

And some descriptions of NPCs:

Serverius Atius

Serverius Atius, head of the Atius clan, has paused on his return from the palace to patiently explain, once again, to the earnest-but-anxious Dynari Amnis that the Atius Clan will of course comply with the Watch's order to avoid provoking any further duels in the street with the Sintav clan.

Ida Vlinorman

Ida Vlinorman has "By chance" met Ancus Afranius outside the Tiber Septim Hotel. Ida says she is a professional "acrobat". Sure she is. And Ancus Afranius, with no visible means of support, is always cheerful, well-dressed, and hanging out in this expensive neighborhood. They're certainly not talking about Thieve's Guild business.

Guard

Though he's unlikely to encounter crime in broad daylight among the best addresses in the Imperial City, this guard is marching along at a brisk pace to look soldierly and keep in shape

Collatinus Vedius

a local resident is hustling down to the Foaming Flask to hoist an elbow with his buddies before the taps run dry

Most of these things don't sound too interesting, but for the first. That one sounds simply amazing, and even if it's scripted, it shows that there will be consequences for the player's actions.

 

[yipsl]

EDIT: Here are some fragments from that hands on preview, posted by Domino:

I have no problems with the Radiant AI, and I can't wait till I pick up that issue next Saturday. I only take issue that Levitate is out at this late date when devs gave us an indication it was in earlier.

New features should not mean features found in every prior TES game are left out unless those new features actually replace the old feature.

Recall morphed into Mark and Recall as a simplification so people wouldn't accidentally set a recall point when they actually intended to recall to another location. Along with Mark and Recall, Morrowind added Divine Intervention and the local Dunmer version, Almsivi Intervention.

Oblivion replaces all those spells with a new spell that teleports you to the closest city. That's at least a replacement. There seems to be no replacement for Levitate.

If insuring the meshugge Xbox 360 reaches 30fps is taking up all their time such that they can't get the physics of Levitate right in the final version, then I'm really saddened. Not because the 360 is a bad console or a bad platform for Oblivion but because no TES game has gotten a minimum of 30 fps on release with hardware of its day and none needs to.

It's only business, ie contractual agreements with Microsoft without the right equipment on hand from the day the agreement was signed to get the work done.

Perhaps they'll add a Levitate replacement in an official mod and make a few dollars per download, or perhaps they'll do it in a commercial expansion. At this point we go from early dev comments about fun animations for flying to a magazine article saying that levitation is out.

When the devs don't say anything at the official boards, it's typical. When they don't say anything at the Codex then it's business and I don't expect to hear from a dev in this thread. Perhaps when PC Gamer's exclusivity expires, then they'll provide a statement of how fun things will be without levitation.

Dammit all to hell, I levitated my characters all the time in Daggerfall and Morrowind. It's my version of fun. They must understand that word, they use it so often.

 

[Atrokkus]

One of the very few spells that I actually liked in MOrrowindw as levitation. It would be extremely dumb of Bethesda to remove such an attractive spell. The magic is primitive as it is, but such truncations will only aggravate the situation.

 

[Lumpy]

One of the very few spells that I actually liked in MOrrowindw as levitation. It would be extremely dumb of Bethesda to remove such an attractive spell. The magic is primitive as it is, but such truncations will only aggravate the situation.

Primitive? Morrowind had a great Spellmaking system, even though the spells had to be simplified because of that.

 

[Micmu]

Levitation in Arx Fatalis, for example, didn't allow you to change your altitude, you just hovered (although it was kinda buggy). Enough to fly over chasms but not enough to avoid combat. Levitation could also be restricted by not allowing casting other spells or firing arrows - like cancelling the spell or something.
But I understand they omitted Levitation in OB due to engine limitations (separate exterior areas).

 

[Imbecile]

I'd like levitation to be in, but they'd better be damned sure that its not broken. Certainly I think they would need to ditch any possibility of permanent levitation ..(edit) unless they reign it in intelligently as micmu pointed out

 

[Lumpy]

Interesting idea, Micmu. if you had to concentrate while you were Levitating, and couldn't do anything else, it would prevent exploits.
But there still is the possibility that they removed it, after implementing it, in order to give more freedom to level designers.

 

[Balor]

Well, perhaps it would be possible to mod it back up... the math related would be atrocioius, though (well, at least from my POV).

 

[Balor]

Oh, and since I doubt I'll be playing Oblivion by itself too much, and my TC will not feature any levitatoin in any shape or form... *shrugs*
Yet, sad to see an other opportunity axed. Or, should I say, blunted?

 

[Dreagon]

Another ability gone that the previous TES games possessed. Oblivion is reminding me more and more of Deus Ex 2....doomed because it is a lesser game than its predecessors.

 

[spacemoose]

Doomed? Hah! The publisher is going to cash in on Oblivion merely due to the initial hype juggernaut, regardless of the actual merits of the game.

Note that I think Oblivion will be a decent game.

 

[Jason]

I have to admit this kind of annoys me. Spears and crossbows I could live without, but levitation was just too fun and useful. Now my holidays are ruined forever, unless there's a hidden jiggletech mini-game in its place.

 

[Proweler]

Levitation isn't real news.

MSFD said it a while ago here at the the codex. You could only enter cities by load doors. that either means that levitation is limited to wall height or removed completely.

 

[yipsl]

But I understand they omitted Levitation in OB due to engine limitations (separate exterior areas).

That doesn't make any sense. Why would Gamebryo not allow levitation while NetImmerse 4 did? It's a later generation of the same engine.

Sure, you cannot levitate in Tribunal because it's one large interior and they didn't want you to "touch the sky". So, since Oblivion cities are one large interior cell, they can ditch levitation in cities and either provide a "dog ate my homework" lore explanation or simply leave the issue hanging.

They described flying animation, so simply rename Levitation "Fly" and specify that it does not work in cities, that you cannot enter cities by flying, but still allow flying over landscapes. That's what we all liked about levitation in Morrowind.

They didn't make the effort to include climbing from the beginning, I don't know if that was because they wanted Prince of Persia style platform mini-games, but it was probably because they didn't want the flack from mainstreamers who couldn't handle climbing being in a game where it's only useful within a cell, but not between the city cells and the surrounding world.

Then they realized flying/levitation would lead to the same criticisms and they decided to cut it from the game. I doubt very much there's a true technical reason to ditch levitation outside of interior cell cities.

 

[HardCode]

Sure, you cannot levitate in Tribunal because it's one large interior and they didn't want you to "touch the sky". So, since Oblivion cities are one large interior cell, they can ditch levitation in cities and either provide a "dog ate my homework" lore explanation or simply leave the issue hanging.

A little creativity could limit levitation in city interior cells. There are guards, right? I am sure it is feasible to have wizards work for the Town Guard. Make levitation illegal in town. If the PC levitates in town, just have a "wizard/guard" spawn and cast a ranged Dispel at the PC. Then, they can't levitate, and it isn't a cheap explanation.

If levitation is gone TOO, I am definitely not buying this game. I don't want to pay $59.99 for half the game elements that were in Morrowind ... 1337 fisicks or not.

 

[Nemein]

I always found it wierd in MW where you could just levitate over the Ghostfence... I mean, here were three gods using all their power to make this impenetrable barrier.

Me: pay a few thousand gold pieces, make a permanent levitation amulet. *Starts making field trips into Red Mountain* Man, Dagoth Ur is an idiot.....

On a more serious note, they could always give you a message/animation saying some kind of magic prevents you from going over the city wall, if it's a technical problem they got with the separate cells...

 

[Hamanu]

Levitation will be in. I promise you now; no more than one week after I buy Oblivion, I will be using a levitation spell in game. That's the beauty of this game, unless they fuck things over very very badly, the fans can fix it. They shouldn't have to, but they will. I mean, just compare a screenshot of morrowind now to one on release day, it's not even the same game. Morrowind still rivals some of the new games coming out as far as graphics go, and is far beyond anything else as far as content. Just look at Tamriel Rebuilt. Oblivion is just going to make all this easier. It's more than just a self contained rpg, it's an rpg system.

 

[LlamaGod]

Why exactly isnt Unarmored in, anyways?

Characters cannot punch? what the fuck is that

 

[franc kaos]

Well, they need something to sell on Xbox Live. I can't see armour and holidays making them rich. They're gonna have to offer downloadable mods that offer new animations and stuff which the CS people won't easily be able to do.

There's a discussion on the official mod forum, where they're worrying about how much they'll be allowed to step on Bethesda's toes this time, due to original meshes being all but impossible to create without the right (expensive) software.

I asked about unarmoured, no official response as yet.

 

[yipsl]

I asked about unarmoured, no official response as yet.

My feeling is that unarmoured isn't in because they wanted simplification of skills and instead of Morrowind's unarmoured, they added something akin to Daggerfall's Dodge as a skill perk for Acrobatics. To dodge, one must do some sort of button mashing combo on the Xbox 360 controller or the PC which allows the character to dodge and roll.

So, instead of treating unarmoured like armour, they're making Acrobatics with dodging a more visceral (read mildly twitchy) experience. Let's hope it works, because I've always liked characters with no armour in Morrowind and minimal armor in Daggerfall (often only a breastplate).

 

[yipsl]

Levitation isn't real news.

MSFD said it a while ago here at the the codex. You could only enter cities by load doors. that either means that levitation is limited to wall height or removed completely.

Can anyone direct me to the actual quote? I'd like to quote it over at the official forums in this thread:
http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... 09644&st=0

My major points are on page 3.

 

[Lumpy]

Why exactly isnt Unarmored in, anyways?

Characters cannot punch? what the fuck is that

Yeah, fighting unARMED is exactly what unARMORED was about.
Hand-to-hand (an idiotic name) is still in.
But did Unarmored make a lot of sense anyway? How can someone get armor rating without wearing armor? Doesn't make a lot of sense. It shouldn't have been in anyway.