PC Gamer says that Levitation is out.

[yipsl]

Okay, for once, no one directed me to MSFD's comments on the Codex and he didn't post about levitation in this thread, but only the combat system, so I went back to the official boards. I actually found that Tasha had posted his comments. Here they are and my reply:

Tasha posted: OK, MSFD specific quote about levitation:

"Here are some of the primary reasons people used Levitation in Morrowind (gleaned from the multiple threads on the subject):

1. To escape combat
2. To exploit AI that couldn't deal with flying targets
3. To reduce travel time by flying over hazardous and/or impassable terrain
4. To get to areas specifically designed to be levitated to
5. Because it's cool

A few response:

1. In Oblivion, mages have a wide variety of tools at their disposal if escaping combat is the goal. Casting Invisibility on yourself for example is a good one. Enemies lose track of you. They'll wander around, trying to find you, and if enough time passes they'll drop out of combat. Calm will put targets into a stupor during which they won't attack or follow you around for the duration of the spell. Demoralize will make a creature or NPC flee, and Turn Undead will do the same for the undead. Obviously, Paralysis is good for making a hasty retreat as well. These spells and others can of course be used for tactical advantage in combat as well. In addition, pure mages are not necessarily at such a disadvantage in combat anyway. For example, the Shield spell will improve your armor rating, and all of the Elemental shields (Fire, Frost, Lightning) will improve the armor rating in addition to resistance to the elemental magic. Factor in new features such as continuous regeneration of magicka and the fact that spell costs go down and effectiveness goes up as your skill in a spell's dominant effect increases, and mages are much, much more effective than they ever were in Morrowind. In other words, the need to flee combat is reduced.

2. In Oblivion, the AI has behavior to handle it when an opponent is unreachable, so even if Levitation was in, this wouldn't be a "viable" strategy.

3. Horses and fast travel help to reduce travel time.

4. Obviously there aren't any such areas in Oblivion.

5. Yeah, Levitation is pretty cool. But there are lots of other cool effects in the game, new and old, and many of the old with new functionality. There's no shortage of "cool" in Oblivion.

While I'm sure some of you will miss the spell effect out of nostalgia, you won't find yourself NEEDING to Levitate in Oblivion."

Okay, if it's cool, then we have to forget the cool we like and accept the cool we're given? I'm not quite certain that he'd say that about fun as fun has been the big marketing buzzword coming out of Bethsoft aimed at the mainstream.

I want my fun. I want to fly over the world for enjoyment. I want to have aerial battles with mages who levitate up after me. If there are no true technical issues, but just a lack of vision, then modders will fix it -- eventually.

The Eight Divines were cool, but a Nine Divines not joinable is still cool because the game's FUN!

Melee staves weren 't cool because none of the teenage relatives of the devs polled by Pete during a pizza party while playing the alpha build mimicking a 360 ever played such wussy characters that they'd actually use a melee staff. Besides, the rare magical staves will be FUN!

Spears polled lower on the poll than finding Caius. The girls polled also wanted that grody old man to put his shirt back on. After all, they see bums outside their high school begging for change all the time, they don't need to have an old skooma addict give them assignments. That's too much like their sixth period history teacher who's an old aging hippie anyways. So, a secret Blades faction where you don't have to find Caius is FUN!

Seriously, all juvenalian satire aside (and Bethsoft deserves some, believe you me, non of that horatian stuff for these characters) Oblivion does look good. I just don't buy the "we perused the threads and all the noobs only used levitation for such and such, and we didn't want that".

Where's the vision? Is it all about polls, FUN with a Marketing Twitch, putting out the best graphics, RAI and quests in limited guilds that everyone uses and every other game simulates? Is it all about swords, visceral button mashing that doesn't distinguish itself from other games?

I like the idea that NPCs will sit and paint and I hope they have some way for NPCs to resolve conflict other than killing each other over brooms. A truely visionary world simulator would have NPCs interact and not just have improved Daggerfall schedules.

I like the idea of levelled treasure and that a Daedric weapon garnered much later would create a clone of the creature you're fighting to fight for you. I loved it that when the dev dropped the sword, the NPC picked it up and created a clone of the dev's character that then trounced the dev. That's cool and that's fun.

Yet, fun should not involve taking long term features away from the series. The reasons, when not technical, are based on the lamest excuses I've encountered. Like they think that their fans are all clueless console gamers who don't know RPGs, don't know the TES series and don't care just so long as it's FUN!

No wonder we have all the threads with noobs saying they'll forget about Oblivion and pick up another game if it's not out NOW!

Old time fans aren't dead yet, and as we get older, we only buy games in the series we love. As it is, I'll buy one copy for the CS and play the game through before I buy another copy. I had planned on three copies, one for both of our recent PCs and one back up copy. Let's hope they have enough FUN! based sales to make up for long term fan disappointments.

The game was sounding like a 9 out of 10, but the more time goes by, it's slipped to a 7 out of 10. Mainstream goodness yum!

10% of your daily supply of vision inspired wonder and 100% of your fun inspired button mashing, animations and graphics.Filled with polyunsaturated mainstreaming and sameness. Brought to you by Bethesda Softworks, owned by the people who use pre-election polls to lose elections!

 

[hiciacit]

I had planned on three copies, one for both of our recent PCs and one back up copy.

That's a joke, right?

 

[yipsl]

I had planned on three copies, one for both of our recent PCs and one back up copy.

That's a joke, right?

Not at all, we have the original copy of Morrowind, the two expansions and two copies of the GOTY edition we bought for our other PC and one back up copy not to be opened. We also have a vanilla copy of Morrowind minus the CS that came with an All in Wonder 9800 Pro card.

I cannibalized one PC, sold another to help pay for our recent moving expenses and we only have one PC today, but I have enough parts to build an Athlon X2 3800+ in February, since all I have to buy is an ASUS A8R-MVP Socket 939 ATI Radeon XPRESS 200 CrossFire ATX motherboard, an X2 3800+ CPU and an X1600XT. Then I'll go for another X1600XT in April.

So, we'll have two PCs again, not counting our son's Celeron PC and he won't be playing Oblivion at 5 years old. I had planned on two copies of the Collectors Edition and one copy of the regular as a backup. The only games I do that with are TES, Might and Magic and HOMM. I won't get Dark Messiah because of what Ubisoft is doing (ie another Half Life Too instead of a Might and Magic 10). I will get two copies of HOMM V.

What's so strange about that? Edited to add, I also own two copies of Daggerfall, but play off of back up CDs, and I have Arena diskettes (one won't install) and Arena on CD, which I prefer to the diskette version that's free at Bethesda Softworks because I'm so amused hearing that beautiful voice of Ria Silmane's spirit intoning "With you has died our last hope for justice..."

 

[Lumpy]

I guess this is the sticking point that I disagree on. Where you are in full control of your character in real time, you no longer need a proxy Hit Roll.

But you are missing the point brought up many times. If YOU the human at your computer determine whether or not your PLAYER CHARACTER scores a hit, then that doesn't accurately represent your PLAYER CHARACTER's abilities. It represents YOURS. And "YOURS" is Counter-Strike, the "PLAYER CHARACTER's" is an RPG.

No. You're wrong.
Player skill will not be more important, because you won't need a lot of skill to hit an enemy, so even the worst action player will be as good as a counter strike expert. Just go next to him, click the left mouse button, you hit him. Player skill will be very unimportant. Also, Skill affects damage. So, for example, if a 60 skill character would hit twice as often in MW than a 30 skill character, now a 60 skill character will deal twice as much damage than a 30 skill character, which means that the amount of damage dealt per second will be the same.
So the removal of to hit rolls FOR MELEE will not turn Oblivion into a FPS.

 

[gromit]

Wallace seems a lost cause.

Oh, okay. You don't know me, I don't know you, but sure, get judgmental after I edited my post out of deference to you, upon reading your reaction to Bryce's original. If the absurdity of recommending to someone that, since video games don't allow such sick fantasies to be played out, they should do it in the real world didn't appeal to you, nor the only-kind-of-subtle implication that someone, if they had meant that seriously, would desperately need to get the hell away from their videogames and step outside... nor can the irony that rape and genocide, both things that, while not present in these, as many say, "awful games that are leading to the downfall of our society," are disturbingly common in the real world, illicit a crooked smirk... congratulations, I now present you with the Puppy Award for More Virtuous Satire. I will break my pledge to the minions of darkness momentarily to state that it is, in fact, adorable... but let's not liken dark humor to public endangerment, or I'll take the puppy back.

Regrettably, the Tripod site I found this on informs me this puppy is dead.
Now neither of us can have it.

interesting stuff, actually having something to do with games, and what is "responsible" to put in them

This is something I've thought about a lot. At this point, is there anything in film, or literature, that we would not allow? Certainly, keep the harsh content away from those emotionally or psychologically unable to handle it, but I think there are artists working in those mediums who are likely to approach such things with the maturity necessary to make a thoughtful work regarding them, and, more importantly, the mediums themselves have become "mature" enough in both their own evolution and in the public eye that the audience has a much better chance to take the work as intended. (This plays a part in why no-one but junior high kids think Scarface is an upstanding role model, nor "Droog" a viable lifestyle choice.)

Video games, however, I do not think are at that point. Whether or not most games to advertise themselves with the themes we laughably call "mature" are art is something I'm not out to start a debate over, even though I personally can't name a single one that strove for anything more than sensationalism in the end. What's important is that very, very few people are willing to accept anything that involves a button as an expression of any merit at this point in time, for reasons ranging from "HEADSHOT, FUCKER! What was that, Wallace?," the soul-crushing "I don't want to think when I play games," and "It's just a game," to "it's all kiddy shit," much less are they willing to give of themselves unto the work, as any lasting piece to come about since the dawn of man has asked them to do.

My observation is that all modern media can only suckle on the plastic teet of novelty for so long, at which point it has to evolve (provided the public will give it a fair shake) and become what only that media can. What if movies had never become more than theatre without the atmosphere, or radio-plays without the imagination? Games have to take an even greater leap ahead, because what they can offer exclusively goes beyond adding a picture and the ability to splice - interaction. So, no, you can't really take a movie or a book, add parts where you press the buttons in between, and say that you've elevated games to an artform if the interaction isn't the element which drives the statement.

Many people think you can, and this is how we've gotten to the place we are now. Yet even if GTA:SA featured the most poignant plot you could imagine, it would still boil down to "Here, have a gun, now go be that one guy in the story that goes around killing folk." Since interactivity separates games from all other media, it's both logical and necessary to interpret that side of it. This is where my "dream concept" comes into play, one that's probably shared by a few members of the codex, containing the most brightly shining and darkly foul aspects of man, but leaving the choice to take these paths up to the player. Provided every action has, as you mention, its consequence, the game has suddenly gone from "Isn't my plot neat? Blam! Blam!" to a chance for the artists behind it to present from their imagined scenario a myriad of results, each of which contain a statement by the artist, direct or implied, as well as something far more powerful: a reflection of the player himself.

Whether this is, in the case of someone who walks the virtual world committing acts of unspeakable evil, a pat on the back and a "nice job, dude," or something more hopeful and powerful that makes you question your ways, varies creator to creator, naturally, so you still won't want to plop junior in front of any old game and walk away because "it's presented artistically." However, if parents take the time to sit down with their kids when they play, something that will hopefully become more common now that more gamers are getting to that age, think of the raw potential games like these could have as learning tools.

After all, which would be more beneficial to our youth - something with canned hugs and giggles, a fantasy land where good will eventually triumph because there's simply no other possibility in the matter? That'll work out real well when they meet their first asshole. Or would it be something where the parent can show that in a world where unspeakable (heh!) violence and hate are ever looming, and oftentimes the simplest "solution" to a problem, that there is always another way - that it is up to the goodly people of this world to make that choice? I know which one gets my vote.

Sure, it'd take a little more effort on my part to help the lil buggers find a path of light through the darkness than it would to drop the kids off in happyland for a few hours, and that's just fine by me. Mind you, we wouldn't want your five-year-old to play one of these art-games whose core themes are inextricably linked to certain themes even if they provided the alternative, like, say, "Help Humbert Humbert Not Hump," or "Should We Flip the Switch?," but a parent could easily guide them through something either geared directly to the moral choices children face, or a more general simulation with a neutral, sandbox-design basis... in case of the former, we could even let them (gasp) choose the wrong thing to do, and see why it doesn't work out for the best.

The irony, however, is that for games to maintain their speech long enough for them to ever be respected enough to pull this off, it seems they'll need to play along with rules made for parents who don't give a damn. Funny how the apathetic care just enough to try to ensure they'll never have to care again. Whoops, no selling "M" games to minors wandering in off the street means we'd better not publish anything that portrays violence as, you know, something abominable, and gruesome, and wrong, if we want any of that precious shelf space. It's okay, we'll just have them make another platformer where the good guy beats the shit out of people, and no one is any worse the wear for it. Hell, we can even toss in a gun as long as it doesn't appear to actually hurt anyone. :wink:

It seems we're about on the same page on this one, so maybe you back up a little with the "lost cause" shit now?

 

[bryce777]

Hehehe.

 

[Zomg]

I now present you with the Puppy Award for More Virtuous Satire. I will break my pledge to the minions of darkness momentarily to state that it is, in fact, adorable... but let's not liken dark humor to public endangerment, or I'll take the puppy back.

Yow, that's probably the wittiest thing I've read in a couple of months. Beautiful, worthwhile post all around.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

I had planned on three copies, one for both of our recent PCs and one back up copy.

That's a joke, right?

What's so strange about that? Edited to add, I also own two copies of Daggerfall, but play off of back up CDs, and I have Arena diskettes (one won't install) and Arena on CD, which I prefer to the diskette version that's free at Bethesda Softworks because I'm so amused hearing that beautiful voice of Ria Silmane's spirit intoning "With you has died our last hope for justice..."

Why not just install one version on all your systems?

 

[yipsl]

Wallace, regardless of what editing yoiu did, and I did not read the original unedited commments you made, I did not like the following comments you made quoted by Bryce, which are following:

It's called real life, my friend... it has amazing graphics, and doesn't take a computer to play. (yipsl: If your people were raped in the past, sorry, but tough! I'm done editing this. Don't all wear such short skirts next time.)

They wouldn't have been outside if they didn't want it!

This is the Codex where free speech means anything goes, so say what you want. I would just prefer that comments involving any type of ethnic or religious hatred or violence against women (or children) be avoided in a thread I start. I don't tell people in other threads what speech they can, and cannot, use. I simply made a request that seemed to get a response that fanned the flames.

I did not see the satire, perhaps because I scanned Bryce's response. At any rate, while I'm far from politically correct, I draw the line at certain humor.

Regarding games, I do not take the Jack Thompson position and I do not believe in banning violence or healthy sexuality in games. I'm simply in the unusual position of believing that some things are not to be simulated in games. The two usual positions are that anything goes with a mature or equivalent rating; or that nothing goes and it should be all sweetness and light.

I have the same view with movies. One thing that turned me off to Cinemax in the '80's were a certain style of cop movie that was often on late at night after I got home from work. It often had a couple having sex (in the softcore not really having sex "skinimax" way), then they'd get murdered and the rest of the movie would be tracking down the killers for revenge. I felt that the juxtaposition of sex and violence in a realistic visual way not only harmed the story, but was psychologically unhealthy in ways that fiction could never be.

That said, i don't believe in censoring violence in gangsta games, just ratings enforcement. It is not free speech to sell a game to those below the rating. If a store cannot sell cigarettes to a minor, why then a game rated M or AO? My issues with Rockstar is separate from my views on violence in games.

I also don't believe in censoring violence or sexually suggestive horror in horror games. When I say that certain things should not be simulated in games, I mean that a strategy game could not be sold involving planning and carrying out genocide or that an RPG that allows the player to kill harmless NPCs should not also include simulated rape.

Does that mean that games are less than literature? Not really, only that games (like movies) involve elements that aren't left to the reader's imagination. Games and movies should be treated as one medium, rather than games being treated as solely for kids.

 

[Turdis]

Well, sorry to steer things back on-topic here, but I was posting in a thread on the ES forums (please dont kill me) when a thought occurred to me: perhaps levitation is out due to a conflict with the havok physics? I mean, one could conjecture that in game objects are now targetable via spells from the E3 demo, and according to the last developer diary large explosions would toss clutter around, so whats to stop the PC from casting a low power/high duration levitate spell on whatever random object and have it just sit there floating? What I mean is, levitate wouldnt just be another spell effect, but rather something that messes with
a global function (if thats the right term). I can't see what game breaking effect this might have, but perhaps someone with more imagination might.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Well, sorry to steer things back on-topic here, but I was posting in a thread on the ES forums (please dont kill me) when a thought occurred to me

A rare event on those forums

perhaps levitation is out due to a conflict with the havok physics?

First, it doesn't make sense and second, there was a developer's quote, that I'm too lazy to look for at the moment, that stated the awesomeness of levitating in Oblivion.

 

[Turdis]

Well, I didnt mean a hard conflict, rather a game design one. There'd be absolutely no issue getting the spell to work in game, and I'm sure it was in at some point, but wouldnt a levitate spell work something like "set target weight 0" or something? Now lets take a really crappy example because frankly I've been unable to come up with anything better: Pc triggers a trap that drops a cage around him, and either through fast reflexes or having reloaded after being caught in it manages to hit it with a levitate spell, thus freezing it midair. Granted, I can't see any gamebreaking consequences in that, but if the devs wouldnt want something like that to happen to certain objects wouldnt they have to exclude them from the physics aspect of the game entirely?

 

[Vault Dweller]

I doubt that there are any events requiring PC to be trapped (that doesn't fit into TES gameplay style), and it should be easy to override levitate with the weight of a falling cage or what have you. Anyway, who cares why it's gone? If you are on a crusade to prove that it wasn't Bethesda's fault, you are about to waste a lot of time.

 

[Turdis]

Nope, just random speculation really.

Edit: Not to mention they locked the thread as soon as I brought it up, so it made me suspicious.

 

[nakanja]

Pc triggers a trap that drops a cage around him, and either through fast reflexes or having reloaded after being caught in it manages to hit it with a levitate spell, thus freezing it midair. Granted, I can't see any gamebreaking consequences in that, but if the devs wouldnt want something like that to happen to certain objects wouldnt they have to exclude them from the physics aspect of the game entirely?

Or just exclude nonliving objects from levitate spells, as it was in the previous games.

 

[Micmu]

No need for "speculation". The reason is known: engine limitations - separate exterior areas (walled-off cities, ruins, etc).

 

[Section8]

but wouldnt a levitate spell work something like "set target weight 0" or something?

That's actually a really interesting way to integrate levitation into a physics simulation, if it's robust enough. You make it so that gravity no longer applies to the player, but they still need to find another means of "propulsion." Rocket jumping, perhaps? :twisted:

I think that would be a real interesting bit of magery.

Weight = 0
Jump
"Uh oh, did I remember to learn a Burden Self spell?"

...or...

Weight = 0
Run across chasm
Decellerate due to air resistance
Stop in mid air
Look Down
Shrug, wave to the camera
Fall, and crater on the desert floor below.

 

[Turdis]

Good point, guess I didnt think it through enough

 

[bryce777]

No need for "speculation". The reason is known: engine limitations - separate exterior areas (walled-off cities, ruins, etc).

Yup. Programming is hard. Especially when you are the kind of retard who makes axes blunt weapons. Hehehe.

 

[Balor]

Well, it's doubtful that one who made axes blunt is resposible for coding levitation. *shrugs*

 

[gromit]

Much of your post reads as if you thought I were accusing you of any and all of the semi-imagined quotes from the "extremes." The only part written specifically about you was at the top.

I draw the line at certain humor.

That's fine, not everyone has the same tastes. Don't haul off and call me a lost cause for it, as if I were not a moral person for having to laugh about the sick shit in the world that would otherwise drive me insane. I edited a quote of someone else to not contain a reference to genocide, because I later noticed you specifically mentioned being very offended by his words, ok? My words are left intact, except for the addition of another, just as sarcastic, statement. Save the damnation for racists and deniers, there's plenty on the internet. I'm a pretty nice guy. Hell, had you said, with such conviction, the picture of the poor sweet little awesome fucking puppy was making you too sad, I might've even taken it down. Can we talk about levitation, and content in various media again?

Cinemax in the '80's, cop movies

Oh, yes, they're SURE to present mature themes tastefully and with adequate context, and would never add in severe and mature content for the purposes of random grit and sensationalism, if based on the spirit and integrity, both of the creators and the work itself, it was not necessary. Nope, not seedy cop movies.
Now, just because there will ALWAYS be shit, it will always be shitty, and it sells more when it pretends to be all grown up by throwing in swears, sex, and violence, does not mean that the subject matter of shit is something that couldn't be used a lot more responsibly and more meaningfully in a greater work. Hell, artistic pieces are often more likely to not attempt to cram in a tastelessly graphic portrayal of whatever taboo theme they tackle, so their ultimate message is less likely to be overlooked.

simulated in games

Yeah, I'm not saying that anything along the lines of "Use the Right Analog Stick to rape your victim" could ever be considered an art piece, and I'm also fairly apprehensive of any attempt at a realistic visual portrayal. However, that doesn't mean that the theme itself should never be used. Silent Hill 2, while bordering on even my sensibilities in some of its depictions, had an ending that tied it all together to make sense and mean something. You can probably find a decent plot analysis in about two minutes of googling, but be skeptical of any that seem to revel in the "awesome coolness" of all the violence, sexual or otherwise, because there are many people that get introduced to such topics through shit, and thus don't use a little synthesis and critical thinking on them. That, and that the "awesome coolness" club is drawn to strong content like flies to, well...

...ratings enforcement. It is not free speech to sell a game to those below the rating

Hear hear. But I'd put it as "It does not impede upon the free speech of the creators to block sales of games to parties outside the intended audience," as that phraseology has the added benefit of coming from the perspective of the courts ensuring no one's free speech, as it has previously been defined, is hindered. Anyway, an enforced rating system is what will both allow developers to create what they want, people to buy what they want, kids to get what they're allowed, and other people to avoid something that may be a little too much for them. The only thing that could fuck up a situation that mutually beneficial is the reluctance of publishers to press anything that might not get any shelf space - and it wouldn't, if we keep up this "games are for kids" shit which is only perpetuated by the lack of thought-provoking and mature pieces... which, frankly, can't ever happen if we never take off the kid gloves.

Now, here's a hypothetical for you. Imagine a game involving genocide. Note that this does not mean quests like "Oppress and Exterminate the Next Race to Continue" or "Kill All Haitians!" It's just an rpg, part of the setting of which is that there is a crackdown to oppress all members of another race, and something as unthinkable as genocide could very well be the next phase. It is the player's decision to either stand up and do something about it, or not concern themselves, and expend their efforts elsewhere in the game. If the apathetic, and ultimately complicit, choice is made, the in-game consequences show it to be a foolish, inhumane, and wrong decision, maybe even smacking them in the face with the old "Whoops, You're the Next to Go!" routine.

It's all handled delicately, artistically, and respectfully. For extreme situations, like a head being blown off, or even someone getting raped by their oppressors, the game is tasteful enough to use implication, accounts of witnesses, or clever and symbolic visual storytelling rather than show it on screen. Spielberg gets quoted as calling it "the Schindler's List of videogames," and, much to the chagrin of his lawyers, adds "This isn't like when I compared Medal of Honor and Saving Private Ryan." It is clearly marked as having content that is not appropriate for children, and is never sold to a single minor without the approval of a responsible and informed parent.

So, the questions are these: Does your sense of what should and should not be portrayed in games extend so far, and have so little to do with context, that you would believe this game to be that far beyond taboo and taste that it overrides any artistic merit it has, and thus you feel should not be? (Not "should not be" as in "censor it," but in your own opinion.) Or is it that, at this point, it seems as if almost every "M for Mature" game has decided that any themes it handles should be graphically displayed, if you add it all up it shouldn't have a point or mean a god damn thing, and it will try to take the easy road not to fame, but notoriety, by embracing its core sensationalism, that it is hard for us to imagine a world where games could ever handle a topic as mature as "one man deciding to shoot another" in a thoughtful manner, let alone topics as sensitive as rape or genocide - are all of the "mature" games like Cinemax 80's cop movies, and that's where the problem really lies? And, finally, is it simply just the graphic or aural depiction of such things that irk you, and you would have no real problem with them being a theme in a work if they were presented in more tasteful depictions then the themes we allow now are, perhaps if they were verbally invoked or visually implied, in a manner where the act takes place, but the details of it are left to your imagination to either fill in, or recoil from?

I ask these because I've gotten the impression you may be disillusioned by pointlessness and "shock value" more than you hate the subject matter often used for them - these subjects are, in the end, just tools for storytelling, and how they are used can be either very recklessly or with great care, and to serve an honorable end. And remember, rape, genocide, and murder do not need to be graphically portrayed, much less directly controlled by the player, to be themes in a videogame.

And on levitation:
I don't know if there was any active effort to conceal its omission, given that we haven't gotten that much information on any particular spells. Given the spell-creation for modders is said to allow them to get pretty deep into the script, Hoptoad, or at least a "give me an upward boost when I cast this" spell, will be available within days of release if it's not already in, and it shouldn't be impossible to make a makeshift levitation that allows you to retain height and go up very, very steep slopes, but, as said before, the problem will be in providing the propulsion beyond an initial upward thrust. I'm not sure any amount of scripting could convince the interface that looking at the sky while walking forward should make you go up, if it was not already coded to do this under certain circumstances. Is there any swimming in the game?

 

[yipsl]

Much of your post reads as if you thought I were accusing you of any and all of the semi-imagined quotes from the "extremes." The only part written specifically about you was at the top.

You interpret "lost cause" as applying to you in general and in real life. I merely meant "lost cause" as in getting you and Bryce to not make such offensive comments in a thread that I began. Make all you want in another thread. I tend to view threads as almost like visiting someone's home.

When another poster and I were asked by a thread starter to remove certain comments that weren't directed at him but were off topic on the Oblivion boards, both of us edited our comments out. We respected the wishes of the person who started the thread.

Believe me, I've been on boards where conspiracies and UFOs are discussed, and I've encountered much more extreme speech than that made here by Bryce. When there, I'm sort of in the lion's den and expect to have to deal with it. I generally don't expect that on game sites, and I knew that Bryce was just joking in a sick sort of way. You too.

It's like the roommate I had decades ago who made dead baby jokes. I never thought he was a mass murderer, but I thought he had too perverse a sense of humor and I asked him not to tell those jokes without letting me know ahead of time so I could leave the room.

Well, sorry to steer things back on-topic here,

Never apologize for going back on topic. I agree with the critiques of your reason for levitation being out. I see it solely as a cell issue.

While I think the cell situation was the only technical reason, I still think they could have worked around it if they had chose. They aren't sloppy programmers overall, despite Morrowind's optimization problems. They simply chose to not include the feature.

I think they are so locked into "making the game that they want to play" that they see "fantasy as a knight riding a horse, running around killing things" and they prefer Prince of Persia style improved acrobatics to workable levitation.

One thing I noted in reading the PC Gamer article, if the caption isn't just being snarky, the no flying or levitating up to the tower could mean no flying creatures. I can't imagine the imp back in the game without it hovering at chest level casting minor magic like in Daggerfall; and Cyrodiil should have birds.

Not every creature in the game is designed to attack and even if they wanted a clff racer moment, a flock of ravens would do quite nicely. I've seen a few flocks at the mall at dusk that made me think of Hitchcock, they were so large.

Has everyone seen the latest Foxtrot? It's my favorite strip. These are gems:

 

[Bosco]

The "latest"? Those are a couple years old.

 

[galsiah]

I'm not sure any amount of scripting could convince the interface that looking at the sky while walking forward should make you go up.

It shouldn't be too hard to do something like this. In Morrowind it's easy to set the Player's X, Y, and Z coordinates to any value you like at any time. I imagine this will be true of Oblivion too.

After that it's just a user interface issue. X and Y movement could probably be handled by placing an invisible platform below the player's feet, and allowing him to walk in the air. Input for Z movement could be handled in a few ways, including:
Holding sneak, drawing/ putting away a weapon, readying/unreadying a spell, pressing a hotkey, equipping/removing an item.
[sadly looking up/down wasn't cleanly detectable in Morrowind - if it is in Oblivion, you could easily use the look up / down method. If things are the same as in Morrowind, then you can approximate the player's up/down viewing direction by checking changes to their Z rotation - it shouldn't work, but it does.]

Alternatively it wouldn't be too hard to have the player float up to a certain height above ground, then maintain that height by forming a "collision cube" of invisible objects around the player, checking collisions, and adjusting the player's Z position automatically as appropriate.
Unless things have got harder than in Morrowind, levitation is definitely doable. It might require an annoying interface though, depending on how versatile it needs to be. It might also have got much easier to script, though I doubt it.

Of course all the scripting in the world won't fix the reason it was left out in the first place - it's quite possible you'd end up hitting invisible "walls" in strange places, or even possibly fly out of the game world. I guess you could always put something in the spell description about "The danger of unravelling the fabric of reality" .

 

[gromit]

"The danger of unravelling the fabric of reality" .

Ha ha ha, I hope whoever ends up doing this is a major lore geek, and "ships" it complete with a five-page backstory.

 

[LlamaGod]

The "latest"? Those are a couple years old.

dont mind him, he's just going deeper into the pit of geem-dom.

I think he's creating new levels in that pit