Phantasie series

[IronEye]

Agreed about healing, it'd be interesting if those on DOS or C64 had to struggle through with a Healing IV spell that didn't revive. I remember I'd tried the Undead/Lvl20 trick, but it told me "This character is unable to do this" when going to the trainer. Though...now I'm wondering if I only tried the trainer, and not "L" for spells. I thought I'd tried both but maybe not.

Practicing pixel art today, I made sprites for Ogre/Sprite since those two shared visuals with Gnoll/Pixie. Maybe the ogre one is a little uninspired, maybe I'll revisit it later or someone else could. I figure there's no way to actually get these into the game, but just for fun.

scaled up

original size

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I remember when I had to muscle memory the Quickling for FRUA because I didn’t have extraction tools. God it took me forever because my skills are terrible. Then graph paper came to my aid and eventually NEOGRAB. I was pretty close. Original art? Bah! I have to modify because my stuff is terrible.

 

[Francois424]

The Pixie one looks gorgeous IronEye. There's so much potential for a proper remake.
For ogre tho, limited size of the box will constrain what you can do. But it already fits very well with the P3 scheme, I'd totally be ok with that.

 

[IronEye]

Thanks! And agreed that the ogre needs to be somehow improved. Size constraints are an issue as you say, even the troll was the same size as the human, but, assuming sprite rects are 32x48, there does seem to be an extra 5 or 6 pixels vertically, so maybe ogre, troll, gnoll could all be slightly bigger.

Something else I wanted to get opinions on because I have mixed feelings on it is the death/judgment screen. I like the artwork on it, and there's some suspense/fun elements regarding the fate of your characters, but from a design/balance perspective I don't understand it. If he destroys or turns some of my characters undead, I will re-load my last save. And if I get lucky and all six are revived, I'll still re-load last save because of -1 CON. Know what I mean? I wasn't sure if this feature is another holdover from D&D or similar, or if it's unique to Phantasie?

 

[TheDeveloperDude]

Phantasie 1
There are Level20 fire/water/earth elementals (undead fighters) in the guild. What is that?

This is nice:

 

[octavius]

I don't remember the mechanics of it now, but they become available when you cast the spells to summon elementals.

 

[Francois424]

Phantasie 1
There are Level20 fire/water/earth elementals (undead fighters) in the guild. What is that?

This is nice:

I don't remember the mechanics of it now, but they become available when you cast the spells to summon elementals.

100% correct.

Basically a high level Wizard casts the spell (say on turn #1) - You'll get a message like "The elemental is starting to form"
On turn #2, you'll have an extra party member (say the Fire elemental), which you get to control and assign commands to, like you would any other party member.
I remember in Phantasie 1-2, the Fire Elemental and Water Elemental (I think) being particularly powerful. Fire has FireFlash IV, and water had Healing IV (I think).

I don't remember if it's in P1-2 or P3, but there was a bug where once the elemental is out of MP, you could not have it get them back, making the spell useless. I think this was another of Phantasie3's infamous bugs, at least on the AtariST
But feel free to try them out. If the battle is worth wasting a turn of casting time for the elemental, then you gain an extra target soaking incoming damage from monsters, and another caster/melee character on your next attack turn.

On a side note: Those also had their pixel art not implemented properly in P3 (along with MANY of P1/P2's creatures, even those with palette swaps like dragons) and in P3 they all look like a Mud Elemental.
Have Fun !

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I bet the monster dat might show the stats of the elementals.

Bah! This has nothing
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/c64/567317-phantasie/faqs/15183

There is no proper rpgclassics2.0 shrine nor wikia. (No updates on that site either sheesh)

BAH!

Nada

 

[Torus]

Does anyone know what drain from undead actually does in phantasie 3(amiga version)?

Been reloading out of reflex since it's an old game and it's usually so brutal in those.

 

[Francois424]

Does anyone know what drain from undead actually does in phantasie 3(amiga version)?

Been reloading out of reflex since it's an old game and it's usually so brutal in those.

Yes, it basically drains your MP (Magic Points). If you look after a battle where it happens, provided you survive it, you should see your MP reduced even tho you have not cast anything.

 

[xeenmusic]

Oh, what site was I on that was talking about P4 translation and progress? I forget but it has been considered for a while.

I agree, a whole quintology done in a similar format with possible OPTIONAL QOL toggles. Hell, give me a classics that can use any of the old platforms gfx/sfx as well. I’d take new but it’d take a bit to grab me like the originals. I might even say optional body parts dmg/destruction for the whole quintology.

IN-GAME PRINT OUTS like the originals would be awesome. I printed out all the scrolls and I’m pretty sure I didn’t type them out.

When it comes to classics preserved, I still vouch for the originals as well as the new if the new is competent. Replaying not only clears the foggy nostalgia glasses in our older age but maybe shows the perks and flaws of EACH version.

This obviously won’t be that. What I want to know is where did the PC version of Phantasie II come from. PC & AMIGA are notable among the gaming computers of NOT having the second game. I believe the only entries with all 3 are appleii, c64, AtariST, and Japanese computers.

PhantasieI
Releases by Date

• 1985 (Commodore 64)
• 1985 (Apple II)
• 1986 (Atari ST)
• 1986 (PC-88)
• 1986 (PC-98)
• 1986 (FM-7)
• 1987 (Atari 8-bit)
• 1987 (Sharp X1)
• 1987 (Amiga)
• 1988 (DOS)
• 1988 (MSX)

PhantasieII
Releases by Date

• 1986 (Apple II)
• 1986 (Commodore 64)
• 1987 (Atari ST)
• 1987 (PC-88)
• 1987 (PC-98)
• 1987 (Sharp X1)
• 1987 (FM-7)
• 1987 (Atari 8-bit)
• 1988 (MSX)

PhantasieIII
Releases by Date

• 1987 (Amiga)
• 1987 (Atari ST)
• 1987 (Apple II)
• 1987 (Commodore 64)
• 1988 (DOS)
• 1988 (Sharp X1)
• 1988 (PC-88)
• 1988 (PC-98)
• 1988 (FM-7)
• 1989 (MSX)
• 1989 (Sharp X68000)

PhantasieIV
Releases by Date

• 1990 (PC-88)
• 1990 (PC-98)
• 1991 (MSX)

PhantasieV
Releases by Date

• 2021 (PC html)
• 2022 (PC offline)

Phantasie Memorial Set (1990)
* Released1990 on PC-98

That's a very good list. However, as I said in an earlier post, some of this information is incorrect and some missing... I hired various people to record the music from each version with the actual real physical system, so I know.

There is no FM-7 version of Phantasie III. It's FM77AV. Whoever provided you with that information, provided incorrectly.

For Phantasie III, there are two different versions for PC-88. One is a PC-8801 version and one is a PC-88VA version -- completely different game data, music sounds different.

For Phantasie IV, there is also a Sharp X68000 version. (Note: A PC-88VA version was advertised, but never released... Haven't been able to find any sort of prototype or anything either...)

I hope that helps.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

It helps a lot because many of us are unfamiliar with those systems. I'm not sure why listings on say mobygames and other listings provide what they do other than parroting older listings without checking. I have to wonder if the company named "Starcraft INC." was one of the only teams that provided translated Western to Eastern versions of many of these western games esp from the SSI catalog. Seems a lot of golden oldies went through them.

 

[xeenmusic]

There were several companies, but Starcraft may have been the biggest one that did ports. However, they also made a few of their own titles, such as "Tunnels and Trolls", "Phantasie IV" and "Starfire." (The last two being games that they specifically hired Douglas Woods to write the design documents for.)

 

[Francois424]

I finally wrote my Steam review for the Phantasie Memorial Set (had to play it first before I could write the review... Took a while because there's no reason to play it if you use AtariST emulation).

Here it is in case ppl want to read it.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
I am a big fan of this series, I still own all the originals I bought for the AtariST in the late eighties.
I long awaited, hoped, that someone, anyone would take these old titles and patch them/re-issue them for more modern systems.
At last this happened... I thought.

The games are really fun, if you can tame the interface. These are more combat strategy than quest heavy RPG and that is fine.
It's always fun to make your party of six grow and become insanely powerful by the end-game, and stick it up to the bad guy, whomever he might be,

However in all honesty, I just cannot recommend this bundle. NOTHING was fixed, nothing was even given the slightest of facelift.
It is still 4 colors, keyboard only control, the sound is the old PC sound of way back. At the very very least I was expecting graphics/sound
uplift from the AtariST/Amiga versions of the game, the best ones for these titles, and a proper release of Phantasie II for DOS with the same
aforementioned improvements. Phantasie II is an Apple II emulation built to work in windows (shake my head). Then came the lot of small
bugs/outdated features still present and unfixed in these originals.

In short -- I do not recommend this game.

While it is good that this brings the titles to light to a newer audience (should they try it), and that importance CANNOT be understated,
I feel this is a missed opportunity as far as the quality of said games. SQUARE ENIX and others have successfully remastered their games,
changing very little except bringing them to par (say Final Fantasy Pixel remaster or The Bard's Tale bundle).

I mean it's good if you want to try the titles for yourself without searching for the AtariST/Amiga version on the emulation scene,
it's very cheap and easy to install and get right into it, but I would wait until and if they are remastered/ported from AtariST in full
colors/sound/modern mouse and keyboard control, all three for windows at the very least.

2.5 out of 10 -- Absolutely no effort put into this Memorial Set and there is simply no reason to play this unless curious to see what
the original on DOS looked like back in 1985, and don't get me started on the Apple II emulation for Phantasie 2.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Now back to Phantasie III on AtariST for me... In the final grind before going after Nikademus.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I finally wrote my Steam review for the Phantasie Memorial Set (had to play it first before I could write the review... Took a while because there's no reason to play it if you use AtariST emulation).

Here it is in case ppl want to read it.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
I am a big fan of this series, I still own all the originals I bought for the AtariST in the late eighties.
I long awaited, hoped, that someone, anyone would take these old titles and patch them/re-issue them for more modern systems.
At last this happened... I thought.

The games are really fun, if you can tame the interface. These are more than combat strategy than quest heavy RPG and that is fine.
It's always fun to make your party of six grow and become insanely powerful by the end-game, and stick it up to the bad guy, whomever he might be,

However in all honesty, I just cannot recommend this bundle. NOTHING was fixed, nothing was even given the slightest of facelift.
It is still 4 colors, keyboard only control, the sound is the old PC sound of way back. At the very very least I was expecting graphics/sound
uplift from the AtariST/Amiga versions of the game, the best ones for these titles, and a proper release of Phantasie II for DOS with the same
aforementioned improvements. Phantasie II is an Apple II emulation built to work in windows (shake my head). Then came the lot of small
bugs/outdated features still present and unfixed in these originals.

In short -- I do not recommend this game.

While it is good that this brings the titles to light to a newer audience (should they try it), and that importance CANNOT be understated,
I feel this is a missed opportunity as far as the quality of said games. SQUARE ENIX and others have successfully remastered their games,
changing very little except bringing them to par (say Final Fantasy Pixel remaster or The Bard's Tale bundle).

I mean it's good if you want to try the titles for yourself without searching for the AtariST/Amiga version on the emulation scene,
it's very cheap and easy to install and get right into it, but I would wait until and if they are remastered/ported from AtariST in full
colors/sound/modern mouse and keyboard control, all three for windows at the very least.

2.5 out of 10 -- Absolutely no effort put into this Memorial Set and there is simply no reason to play this unless curious to see what
the original on DOS looked like back in 1985, and don't get me started on the Apple II emulation for Phantasie 2.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Now back to Phantasie III on AtariST, final grind before going after Nikademus.

Good review. Honestly, the most notable thing about this release of a series I often thought I was the only one wistfully thinking of, was how quickly my hype turned to disappointment and they managed to get me not to buy it. That's an achievement in itself. Even if they just dropped the best looking versions of the games with no other changes except a preconfigured front end so you don't have to dick with anything to make it boot, I'd have forked over cash.

These guys can eat my ass.

 

[Francois424]

I mean at the extreme minimum, we're talking uplifting NOTHING, they ****SHOULD**** have recompiled Phantasie2 for DOS and triple-checked that the character import feature worked from 1 to 2 then from 2 to 3.
There's WAY more bugs/annoyances than that, but IMHO that would have been the strict minimum effort I was expecting... Also why not switch it into VGA?
Anyways, until and if we get a gentle soul to make a Unity remake of this title it's back to emulation. The C64 version is extremely solid if you don't like the AtariST versions.

Too bad we didnt get "The Bard's Tale Trilogy" treatment. A bit of polish, an in-game manual (useful for advanced casting classes) and a map, otherwise pretty much the same with better graphics.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I liked the c64 version but from some I hear the appleII is ok. When i have a log of versions to choose from, I can only think of playing each version in small chunks bit by big for comparison rather than complete one then try the next version. Sone games, have so many versions it is just bloody unreal.

 

[Francois424]

Does anyone have the experience table for class/level ? I tried digging a bit into Google but it did not return anything.
Talking here about say, a thief needing 500xp for level2, or a Ranger needing 4 million XP from level 16 to 17.
Kinda like those AD&D tables I used to see in Baldur's Gate and in my own AD&D books.

Also I think it's about the same in P1 thru P3 or very close so any game you yanked it from will do.
If no one has the tables yet, I will have to remake a party with one of each class and try to guesstimate the numbers.

 

[mondblut]

I mean at the extreme minimum, we're talking uplifting NOTHING, they ****SHOULD**** have recompiled Phantasie2 for DOS and triple-checked that the character import feature worked from 1 to 2 then from 2 to 3.

Do you seriously expect them to have sourcecode 40 years later?

Finding a legal way to release Atari versions would be much simpler.

 

[newtmonkey]

Francois424
Nice writeup! I agree, but even a 2.5/10 is too kind. What is the value provided by this collection? No thought or effort went into it at all.

People will look at this collection, and wonder why Phantasie II looks completely different and worse than the first Phantasie. If they bother to read the included manual (which covers only the first two games, BTW) they will wonder why they cannot bring the same party from Phantasie to Phantasie II, or why there are "computer-specific rules" (Apple II, C64, Atari 800, Atari ST, and Macintosh) when the collection contains two DOS games and one Apple II game.

Finally, the manual is a 100% duplicate of the manual scanned by the Museum of Computer Adventure Game History, down to the folds and staples. So they didn't even put in the effort to scan their own document (because they probably have nothing).

It deserves a negative score, because not only does it not add any value whatsoever, it removes value by being so sloppy and worthless. It puts the series in a bad light.

 

[Francois424]

Francois424
Nice writeup! I agree, but even a 2.5/10 is too kind. What is the value provided by this collection? No thought or effort went into it at all.

People will look at this collection, and wonder why Phantasie II looks completely different and worse than the first Phantasie. If they bother to read the included manual (which covers only the first two games, BTW) they will wonder why they cannot bring the same party from Phantasie to Phantasie II, or why there are "computer-specific rules" (Apple II, C64, Atari 800, Atari ST, and Macintosh) when the collection contains two DOS games and one Apple II game.

Finally, the manual is a 100% duplicate of the manual scanned by the Museum of Computer Adventure Game History, down to the folds and staples. So they didn't even put in the effort to scan their own document (because they probably have nothing).

It deserves a negative score, because not only does it not add any value whatsoever, it removes value by being so sloppy and worthless. It puts the series in a bad light.

While I 100% agree with you that is a NO EFFORT cash grab, the games themselves as they are on Steam are playable from start to finish with nothing a non-veteran player will notice (as far as little bugs go).
So if you can play all 3 games from start to finish, to me it's worth at least a couple points, ESPECIALLY in the current climate of buggy, unfinished, and abandoned games that we've been served for the last 5 years, if not longer.
It also allow players that would have NEVER tried/found the Phantasie series to actually try it. Even if they puke on it's archaic graphics, no mouse support, no menu shortcuts (Phantasie3 can be played very fast once you know these - at least on AtariST), well at least they know it exists and may start digging into the emulation scene.

Think of it like the crappy 2012 remake of X-Com... To a fan of the 1994 title it's absolute crap. However it brought legions of players into the classical X-Com as well, which is nice.

I don't think it deserves a negative score. getting 1 star out of 5 (or 2.5/10 for me) is IMHO fitting. YES, IT DOES do disservice to the series thanks to their laziness. But at least you can play these titles legally from beginning to end for a few bucks.
Absolutely no effort in repackaging/re-releasing manuals and support documents, also agreed.
Also when I installed this on my PC, I only had a shortcut that fired up Phantasie ONE. I had to start it from Stream to get the choice for Phantasie II or III - Now that's poor as heck as well.

But since the games work, it is worth the 2.5 score for me. I can't be more tho, I mean as discussed above a strict minimum of effort should have been done and was not. Still EGA, Still PC sound only, and the audacity to sandwich an apple emulation in the center.... pffffft.

Do you seriously expect them to have sourcecode 40 years later?

Yes. Abosultely. If they do not, and they said they where bringing these titles up to steam? That SHOULD mean putting in the effort of reprogramming the game in Unity (or w/e).
The Amiga/AtariST have the better graphics and sound, and Commodore64 has the better balance for Phantasie I/II by far.
For a normie like me who has not coded in nearly 30 years now, remaking Phantasie 2, or P1 and say - improve them with Commodore64 difficulty and AtariST graphics is a daunting task, yet not impossible.
If you're saying you're bringing Phantasie to 2024 you better get your act together and put in the work that is required, especially since you and your team are supposed to be professionals.

So yeah, I absolutely expected them to do their homework and provide an upgraded experience with better Graphics/Sounds and a combo of mouse support and full keyboard support (why you cant press "1" to assign a piece of gear to your first party member in the distribute screen for example).
They don't have the source code? fine. But it's no excuse for dodging the work and putting together stuff from 4 websites and call it good enough... In most places that would get you fired.

At least it might allow younger generations to try the game and then go ahead with the emulation scene.
If we're lucky, maybe an "OSMO" will give the Phantasie Series the "Final Fantasy Renaissance" treatment in the future.

Not giving up hope, and playing on my old AtariST version in the meantime, it's not going away as long as I don't mess up my backups and/or something bad happens to all of them. ;-)

 

[negator2vc]

It deserves a negative score, because not only does it not add any value whatsoever, it removes value by being so sloppy and worthless. It puts the series in a bad light.

Actually it worst than that. It force abandonware sites to remove the games (and usually all versions including those that aren't part of the collection that is sold).

For example all the versions including the Amiga & Atari ones are no longer available in myabandonware

 

[Francois424]

It deserves a negative score, because not only does it not add any value whatsoever, it removes value by being so sloppy and worthless. It puts the series in a bad light.

Actually it worst than that. It force abandonware sites to remove the games (and usually all versions including those that aren't part of the collection that is sold).

For example all the versions include the Amiga & Atari ones are no longer available in myabandonware

Okay, see... now that sucks majorly. I did not know that.

 

[newtmonkey]

negator2vc
Good point! I didn't want to get into abandonware, because bringing it up sometimes sounds like whining just because you can no longer get something for free. However, in this case, the abandonware sites were actually providing more value than the "official" source, by providing all versions of the games and scans of all of the documents. It's insulting to be charged for this garbage by people who don't care at all about the games.

Contrast that with the care put into the The Bard's Tale 1-3 remasters. Or the modern release of Star Fleet II: Krellan Commander, lovingly updated by the original author with improvements to AI, UI, and QoL; bug fixes; and even a thank you to the guy who scanned the original documentation for him. It's night and day.

BTW, the people responsible for the Phantasie collection are ex-GOG people, and it shows. Bundle the game with an emulator, throw in some documents scanned by fans years ago, and put the game up for sale.

 

[negator2vc]

Okay, see... now that sucks majorly. I did not know that.

This is the main reason now I hate (I use to love it) when GOG package and release old games.
Especially since they have also stopped supporting linux. Most old games releases support only Windows and maybe macOS. The versions on abandonware sites are usually just zip files you can unzip and use with the appropriate emulator.