KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[Mustawd]

Okay, just to summarize this everyone that was positive or neutral about PP from the codex itt, lost faith in the the project by now?
Everyone but luinthoron ?

Not yet. But next bit of consolizing I see, ima write it off. Maybe get it on sale 5 years after release, if at all.

 

[Freddie]

I'm sure hell as hell still wait for what this game has to deliver. Then I never expected Phoenix Point to become some sort of God of Tactical gaming to begin with.

Though I'm most excited about Phantom doctrine in tactics space, what are the alternatives? Yet another XCOM 2 DLC from K2 and Gears Tactics? Xenonauts 2 maybe.

 

[ArchAngel]

Okay, just to summarize this everyone that was positive or neutral about PP from the codex itt, lost faith in the the project by now?
Everyone but luinthoron ?

I have not lost faith, I just stated my no go zones.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

I'm sure hell as hell still wait for what this game has to deliver. Then I never expected Phoenix Point to become some sort of God of Tactical gaming to begin with.

Though I'm most excited about Phantom doctrine in tactics space, what are the alternatives? Yet another XCOM 2 DLC from K2 and Gears Tactics? Xenonauts 2 maybe.

Xenonauts 2 is gonna rule. My hype level goes:

Xenonauts 2
Phantom Doctrine
Phoenix Point

I'm not crazy about PP, but I don't think it will be *bad*.

 

[Matalarata]

everyone that was positive or neutral about PP from the codex itt, lost faith in the the project by now?

I'm still interested of course! Else why would I even waste my (precious!) time complaining? Personally, I found nuXCOM and nuXCOMtoo good for what they were, got enough hours of mindless fun to justify my purchase. Double that for the first title, since I also finished LW1. That said, I suppose I'm old enough I should know that name dropping is just a PR stunt but I dunno, I hoped for something more this time, 'cause JG.

The more info we get, the more this appears like one of those nu-games in drag. Which can be good, mind you but it's more of the same and kinda meh for the man that gave us X-Com.

 

[PanteraNera]

I hoped for something more this time, cause JG

We will see, the questions I have sent to Julian Gollop (for the interview) are focusing pretty much all about PP features that have not been talked about for quite some time and that we have no information in detail about.

 

[udm]

What about some residual dignity? Next step: Switch? iOS? Alexa?

Holy shit for a moment I thought that was the same Colin Chapman who did Atomic Highway.

InB4 max squad size of 6.

If this fucking happens I want my money back from FIG!
I supported them on good faith that it would be at least better than nuXcom games. And one of the worst offending things in nuXcom is 6 man team limits.

6 man limits, no inventory and pod system are 3 worst offenders in nuXcom and leaving any of those 3 in PP is instant refund case for me.

I only bought Xcom 2 on sale once Long War 2 was released.

Does Fig even allow for refunds though?

 

[Bigg Boss]

Damn. Welp. Xenonauts 2 and old X-Com and Phantom Doctrine maybe.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

To make a different game.

What is the basis for your argument? We're still making the same game that we always were. Microsoft has now provided us with the resources to develop the game for the XBox alongside the PC/Mac version. Nothing in the PC version is changing.

Nothing in the PC version changing is part of the perceived problem, when game is simultaneously developed for consoles and PC nowadays.

That's because the last time when game ports were build PC first was in early Playstation era: it had Dark Omen, Warcraft 2, C&C: Red Alert, Gunship & X-Com: UFO Defence. Those worked quite badly & probably didn't sell too well because we didn't see such games on next gen of consoles. What we did see was over abundance of obvious console to PC ports that were build on keeping the limitations of those devices and their controllers in mind.

Spoiler

This was a concious choice too from console publishers; I remember raging at the news that X-box wouldn't have mouse & keyboard peripherals. They wanted to keep it mainly usable from couch.

FFS even relatively recent directors cut of Wasteland 2 managed to fuck up trading screen from the original release when they ported it to the consoles (and damned PC players with that decline too.)

So, this X-Box release confirmation is a confirmation that game will be designed with console sensibilities first. (Its got to be console limitations first since there's no alternative way to use damn thing, but X-bawx controller.)
Before that controller support was this light "there's all kind of weirdos; whatever rocks their boat" -curiosity, but now it's truly consoles first. Everything must be doable by controller. Tactical battles (how were they going to scale that for bigger squads with current UI, did they have plans for that? Have we seen more than 4 squadies in any concept art or mock up screenshot?), geospace (still unknown), base building and management + diplomacy that is implied to be happening between PP, 3 factions and free havens. One must dread what happens to those systems when they get play tested by their intended console audience.

I really meant to stay out of this (besides slight meming), but this frankly excellent home brewed apple cider got better of me.

 

[Mustawd]

I think Taka-Haradin puolipeikko said what we’re all thinking but have been too lazy to post.

I think the most concerning thing is something Taka mentioned: That most of the game has not really been shown.

Which gives a lot of people worries that PP will be consolized and the devs will just handwave it away with “hey guys it was always gonna be like this”.

If we had seen legit PC centric gameplay and UI before this announcement then a lot of us wouldn’t feel as nervous. But now? Yeah this is very concerning for sure.

TBH, short of Julian actually coming out and guaranteeing this wont affect PC development, I think my expectations have gone way down. Right now I’m no longer hyped and instead am taking a wait and see approach.

I did enjoy xcom and if this ends up being more xcom-like then so be it. But there is a reason I waited till 2018 to play it. And a consolized PP will be no different. Honestly, I hope I’m wrong and we’re all overreacting.

 

[PanteraNera]

Does Fig even allow for refunds though?

https://help.fig.co/hc/en-us/articles/207030758-How-do-I-edit-or-cancel-my-pledge-

How Do I Edit Or Cancel My Pledge?

To change your pledge, go to the campaign page and click "VIEW PLEDGE" and from there you can edit your pledge, edit your extras, or cancel.

If the campaign has ended recently, we can not process change requests, but we can issue a refund if you contact support with the "submit a request" button above, or you can email us at help@fig.co.

 

[HansDampf]

TBH, short of Julian actually coming out and guaranteeing this wont affect PC development, I think my expectations have gone way down.

He'd be deluding himself.

 

[luinthoron]

I may be an incurable optimist here, but apart from the controller-friendly UI that was already coming for the PC anyway, I don't really see any reason for Snapshot to change anything else to make the game work on consoles. They still don't have a publisher who would pressure them into dumbing down the game for a wider audience, so they can still make the game they want for the people who want it. It might even be quite likely that the ones who have been asking for a console version so far would similarly be disappointed by that kind of changes.

 

[ArchAngel]

I may be an incurable optimist here, but apart from the controller-friendly UI that was already coming for the PC anyway, I don't really see any reason for Snapshot to change anything else to make the game work on consoles. They still don't have a publisher who would pressure them into dumbing down the game for a wider audience, so they can still make the game they want for the people who want it. It might even be quite likely that the ones who have been asking for a console version so far would similarly be disappointed by that.

Multiple shots on consoles.. Do you think console audience has enough patience to keep using terrible controllers to shoot multiple times per turn per soldier?
10+ size squads.. Do you think console audience has enough patience to keep using terrible controllers for multiple actions per turn per soldier for so many soldiers?
Geoscape where you need to go around through dozen of hotpoints and check their details before accepting.. instead of having events with X or Y or Z choices in middle of screen?
Complex inventory on consoles, using dozens of items during combat and then multiply that with 10+ soldiers. Do you think console audience has enough patience to keep using terrible controllers to manage dozens of items per soldier for so many soldiers?
And many more reasons...

 

[PanteraNera]

So I guess the Armadillo (New Jericho armored personal carrier) is now able to move on the tactical map (maybe we will see it our self in Backer Build Two)

Obviously this is very early in development and nowhere near finished. It was mentioned before that vehicles might be able to smash through walls.

edit: I asked UnstableVoltage if it is a planned feature for Backer Build Two, his answer was "Well they're being worked on"

 

[luinthoron]

I may be an incurable optimist here, but apart from the controller-friendly UI that was already coming for the PC anyway, I don't really see any reason for Snapshot to change anything else to make the game work on consoles. They still don't have a publisher who would pressure them into dumbing down the game for a wider audience, so they can still make the game they want for the people who want it. It might even be quite likely that the ones who have been asking for a console version so far would similarly be disappointed by that.

Multiple shots on consoles.. Do you think console audience has enough patience to keep using terrible controllers to shoot multiple times per turn per soldier?
10+ size squads.. Do you think console audience has enough patience to keep using terrible controllers for multiple actions per turn per soldier for so many soldiers?
Geoscape where you need to go around through dozen of hotpoints and check their details before accepting.. instead of having events with X or Y or Z choices in middle of screen?
Complex inventory on consoles, using dozens of items during combat and then multiply that with 10+ soldiers. Do you think console audience has enough patience to keep using terrible controllers to manage dozens of items per soldier for so many soldiers?
And many more reasons...

If they don't, they don't have to buy it. They'll get the port they asked for, and they'll better be happy with it. It's not like the ones vocally asking for a console version now aren't aware of what the game is like, having followed the development for months.

Eh, might be the time anyway to teach console players to appreciate a more complex game. Might be good for that market as well.

Honestly, I find the crowd asking for controller support on PC worse. Those are the lazy ones wanting to relax with a controller and a simple UI. The ones asking for a console version are usually just worried about their PC, if they have one at all, not being able to run new games and trusting on always being able to play the new games released for their console.

 

[ArchAngel]

I may be an incurable optimist here, but apart from the controller-friendly UI that was already coming for the PC anyway, I don't really see any reason for Snapshot to change anything else to make the game work on consoles. They still don't have a publisher who would pressure them into dumbing down the game for a wider audience, so they can still make the game they want for the people who want it. It might even be quite likely that the ones who have been asking for a console version so far would similarly be disappointed by that.

Multiple shots on consoles.. Do you think console audience has enough patience to keep using terrible controllers to shoot multiple times per turn per soldier?
10+ size squads.. Do you think console audience has enough patience to keep using terrible controllers for multiple actions per turn per soldier for so many soldiers?
Geoscape where you need to go around through dozen of hotpoints and check their details before accepting.. instead of having events with X or Y or Z choices in middle of screen?
Complex inventory on consoles, using dozens of items during combat and then multiply that with 10+ soldiers. Do you think console audience has enough patience to keep using terrible controllers to manage dozens of items per soldier for so many soldiers?
And many more reasons...

If they don't, they don't have to buy it. They'll get the port they asked for, and they'll better be happy with it. It's not like the ones vocally asking for a console version now aren't aware of what the game is like, having followed the development for months.

Eh, might be the time anyway to teach console players to appreciate a more complex game. Might be good for that market as well.

Honestly, I find the crowd asking for controller support on PC worse. Those are the lazy ones wanting to relax with a controller and a simple UI. The ones asking for a console version are usually just worried about their PC, if they have one at all, not being able to run new games and trusting on always being able to play the new games released for their console.

That is not how things work. They are not getting money from M$ for a Xbox version so they make a PC centric game that plays badly on console.

 

[agris]

So I guess the Armadillo (New Jericho armored personal carrier) is now able to move on the tactical map (maybe we will see it our self in Backer Build Two)

Spoiler

Obviously this is very early in development and nowhere near finished. It was mentioned before that vehicles might be able to smash through walls.

edit: I asked UnstableVoltage if it is a planned feature for Backer Build Two, his answer was "Well they're being worked on"

I think they need a mechanics of materials / materials deformation / general materials scientist to give them some feedback. That ain't how that would look.

edit: or did I miss that PP will have a loony toons vibe to it?

 

[UnstableVoltage]

That is not how things work. They are not getting money from M$ for a Xbox version so they make a PC centric game that plays badly on console.

We have a licensing deal with MS to be on Game Pass. Not a deal to make an Xbox version. Julian has already said that porting to Xbox will not affect the design of the game. We have no intention to "dumb down" for a console release. He's already well aware of this concern and rejects it entirely. Microsoft wanted PP for Game Pass as they liked the game as-is. Snapshot only agreed to this arrangement on the provision that we kept full control and wouldn't have to compromise on any of the game's design.

 

[Mustawd]

Julian has already said that porting to Xbox will not affect the design of the game. We have no intention to "dumb down" for a console release. He's already well aware of this concern and rejects it entirely

Can you please link source? Also, in the future please be more proactive. You’re doing a good job UnstableVoltage , but we have been burned plenty of times. You need to be clear with expctations imo.

 

[UnstableVoltage]

Can you please link source? Also, in the future please be more proactive. You’re doing a good job UnstableVoltage , but we have been burned plenty of times. You need to be clear with expctations imo.

https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-in-xbox-game-pass/966/14

 

[Mustawd]

Can you please link source? Also, in the future please be more proactive. You’re doing a good job UnstableVoltage , but we have been burned plenty of times. You need to be clear with expctations imo.

https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-in-xbox-game-pass/966/14

Gracias m8.

 

[PanteraNera]

Just to confirm - Microsoft have no direct influence over the game design at all, and no ability to influence this financially either. The only thing we need to comply with are the technical requirements for an Xbox One release. The Microsoft contract came about because they liked our vision for the game as it is.

While we can’t be too specific about the arrangement, what I can say is we definitely weren’t “onboard” from the beginning. The agreement happened within the last few weeks as the run up to E3 intensified. Microsoft want new and interesting indie titles for their Game Pass service. Developers get reimbursed (after-all, people who can play on the Game Pass are potentially lost sales). To be on Game Pass, we require an Xbox version. Brown envelope takes care of that. We have dedicated staff to work on the porting. Technical support from both Microsoft and Unity. One of our coders is even an ex-Unity developer (as in, he worked on the Unity engine).

We’re building the game on PC/Mac as intended, and that same game will make it to the Xbox. Other than some technical changes for the Xbox hardware the game is not going to change.

source:

https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-in-xbox-game-pass/966/14

 

[Shog-goth]

Julian has already said that porting to Xbox will not affect the design of the game. We have no intention to "dumb down" for a console release. He's already well aware of this concern and rejects it entirely.

"And when they ask us what we're doing, you can say, 'We're remembering'. That's where we'll win out in the long run".

 

[Latelistener]

I think they need a mechanics of materials / materials deformation / general materials scientist to give them some feedback. That ain't how that would look.

edit: or did I miss that PP will have a loony toons vibe to it?

It's good for what it is I guess. Usually games don't even have that.
Not saying it doesn't need more work, but putting too much effort into it will probably draw attention from something more important.

I'm curious though if destructions made on the tactical level will affect anything.