KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[whydoibother]

The nu-XCOM combat system was so good, that it basically became a genre. So many indie RPGs and tactical games adopted it. Can't argue that it made turn based tactical combat digestible for the masses.
I bet the new Jagged Alliance will also use some variation of that system.

 

[Latelistener]

But I would really like to see that original Firaxis 1:1 X-Com game. I think that's all anyone has ever wanted from a remake, just the same thing with snazzy graphics. I think most people could handle whatever fiddliness it entails, if they could handle the fiddliness of the original game. But I suppose ultimately Firaxis was looking for a wider audience.

By the way, I'm not sure why no one yet is doing anything using Unreal Engine 4. I understand how much work this is, but we've seen crazier things.

 

[Lacrymas]

The nu-XCOM combat system was so good

How is it good? I hate the cover-based mechanics it "introduced" that are infecting every single TB game nowadays.

 

[whydoibother]

The nu-XCOM combat system was so good

How is it good? I hate the cover-based mechanics it "introduced" that are infecting every single TB game nowadays.

I like it. Wish there were more Panzer Commander like flanking bonuses, charge bonuses, etc.
The thing I don't like is "Overwatch". Its too good, to the point that in nuXCOM2 they had to change level design and add timed missions to combat it. Just remove Overwatch mode, add more positional bonuses for adjacent to allies/not adjacent to enemies, etc, and we are set.

 

[ArchAngel]

But I would really like to see that original Firaxis 1:1 X-Com game. I think that's all anyone has ever wanted from a remake, just the same thing with snazzy graphics. I think most people could handle whatever fiddliness it entails, if they could handle the fiddliness of the original game. But I suppose ultimately Firaxis was looking for a wider audience.

By the way, I'm not sure why no one yet is doing anything using Unreal Engine 4. I understand how much work this is, but we've seen crazier things.

You mean Unreal Engine 5? 4 is old now

 

[Latelistener]

But I would really like to see that original Firaxis 1:1 X-Com game. I think that's all anyone has ever wanted from a remake, just the same thing with snazzy graphics. I think most people could handle whatever fiddliness it entails, if they could handle the fiddliness of the original game. But I suppose ultimately Firaxis was looking for a wider audience.

By the way, I'm not sure why no one yet is doing anything using Unreal Engine 4. I understand how much work this is, but we've seen crazier things.

You mean Unreal Engine 5? 4 is old now

What do you mean by old? The last stable release was 2 months ago and I doubt UE5 looks much different at the moment.

 

[ArchAngel]

But I would really like to see that original Firaxis 1:1 X-Com game. I think that's all anyone has ever wanted from a remake, just the same thing with snazzy graphics. I think most people could handle whatever fiddliness it entails, if they could handle the fiddliness of the original game. But I suppose ultimately Firaxis was looking for a wider audience.

By the way, I'm not sure why no one yet is doing anything using Unreal Engine 4. I understand how much work this is, but we've seen crazier things.

You mean Unreal Engine 5? 4 is old now

What do you mean by old? The last stable release was 2 months ago and I doubt UE5 looks much different at the moment.

UE5 exists for years now.

 

[Technomancer]

whilst they do have technology to repel the mist you don't see them sharing it with others

None of them do. They are hostile to each other.

They are elitist, isolationist hypocrites

Didn't really feel that way to me. There is not enough context in game to support such negative assessment. Where is hypocrisy? World politics in the setting are open hostilities between radically different and clashing ideologies, nothing syn can do about it and its not their fault.

They have no qualms with killing civilians, they consider non-Synedrions to be unenlightened and beneath them

Don't know about that one either. Didn't see civilian kill missions unless you mean hostile raid missions, which is again is open warfare by proxy force versus hostile factions. Do you actually kill civilians?

And I didn't see examples of superiority complex you allude to. They are fairly soft-spoken. Same as any other faction they simply believe that theirs is the way.

New Jericho wants to reclaim the world through fire and war. They'll actually take the fight to the enemy.

In what way? Same as everybody else they sit on their bases too busy trying to survive protecting their 'heavens' and fully reliant on phoenix project to do the heavy lifting in nearly everything.

Anu wants to adapt to the world

By going inhuman, some in synedrion want to adapt the world instead. Mist tech being the first sign of that effort.

Synedrion wants to hide in their pristine cities while the world around them mutates and everyone outside of their domes dies and becomes mutants, all in the name of "co-existence". They really aren't that different from the Institute in that regard.

I would need to finish the game and see their ending to argue against it but it doesn't ring true. I very much doubt synedrion victory and global dominance would result in extermination of mutated anu humans and concentration camps for jeriho supporters. They would try to make all fit in their utopia. Anu would just mutate and convert all by force, jericho would kill all anu mutants for sure and would oppress former synedrion.

As for sitting in cities, like I said, other factions don't do anything better in that aspect. And on the matter of co-existence there are two sub-faction inside synedrion. One that argues for adaptation to this world, and another who argues to terraform it to better suit humanity. Which you can push.

 

[ArchAngel]

New Jericho wants to reclaim the world through fire and war. They'll actually take the fight to the enemy.

In what way? Same as everybody else they sit on their bases too busy trying to survive protecting their 'heavens' and fully reliant on phoenix project to do the heavy lifting in nearly everything.

Later in the game once they research special radars they can discover pandoran bases and they will send attacks on those and even manage to eliminate some of them.

 

[Technomancer]

Later in the game once they research special radars they can discover pandoran bases and they will send attacks on those and even manage to eliminate some of them.

That's cool. Sure could use the help, I'm fucking tired of doing those. So jeriho are the only ones who are doing that?

A bit weird if so, especially since Anu are always the happiest about any destroyed infestation for some reason.

 

[ArchAngel]

Later in the game once they research special radars they can discover pandoran bases and they will send attacks on those and even manage to eliminate some of them.

That's cool. Sure could use the help, I'm fucking tired of doing those. So jeriho are the only ones who are doing that?

A bit weird if so, especially since Anu are always the happiest about any destroyed infestation for some reason.

The amount of reputation you get from destroying pandoran bases depends on amount of human havens in the area.
And yea, NJ are only ones doing something directly. Others just offer you their own version of last mission.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Later in the game once they research special radars they can discover pandoran bases and they will send attacks on those and even manage to eliminate some of them.

That's cool. Sure could use the help, I'm fucking tired of doing those. So jeriho are the only ones who are doing that?

A bit weird if so, especially since Anu are always the happiest about any destroyed infestation for some reason.

Yes, New Jericho are the only faction which actively hunts down and destroys nests.
Anu won't because it's heretical and Synedrion won't because they'd rather stay in their cities and rely on their repellers rather than take direct action.

As for killing civilians - wait until later, and pay close attention to their diplomatic relations. Just like with you, the factions have diplomatic relations with each other.

The Terraforming faction are also militant communists who are ultimately no different from New Jericho. It's just that one's a communist and the other is a corporate mogul turned dictator.

 

[Technomancer]

Anu won't because it's heretical

Nah, don't know their reasons but they love it when you destroy them just like all others. In fact their doctrine directly states that its not ok to worship the pandoravirus hostile mutants. They are only appreciative of the event itself since they see it as cleansing and holy punishment sent from god, a new beginning. Aliens are still adversaries to be defeated. I just did a mission where Anu asked me to destroy one of their "fallen" heavens which started to worship aliens and quickly got enslaved and overtaken with infestation.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

They don't like it when you destroy mutated flora and fauna. They're fine with killing pandorans though in self-defense and they do appreciate it when you destroy their nests, but it is likely that their doctrine prevents them from directly attacking them.
Note that they sent you to destroy that infested haven, rather than them sallying forth to take care of the problem themselves. It's not as if they can't, because as you might find out later they are capable of military offenses.

 

[Technomancer]

They don't like it when you destroy mutated flora and fauna. They're fine with killing pandorans though in self-defense and they do appreciate it when you destroy their nests, but it is likely that their doctrine prevents them from directly attacking them.
Note that they sent you to destroy that infested haven, rather than them sallying forth to take care of the problem themselves. It's not as if they can't, because as you might find out later they are capable of military offenses.

It just was their ally mission. Other factions do that as well. Phoenix Point is useful resource to do heavy lifting like that since it was rather hard mission thanks to corruption node.

But my argument is based on what the game says itself when you research their religion: "The Disciples do not worship the pandorans or pandora virus but see them as obstacles to be overcomed on the road to biological perfection." What they would likely find issue with is interfering with mist spreading, like destroying something in the oceans that causes it to creep on land and mutate everything. But lairs themselves, they are a menace to everyone, Anu included.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Playing the DLC now. Doing it on veteran difficulty because hero was a bit of a slog.
A couple of things I noticed about veteran -
Pandoran attacks are a lot less common, and it takes longer for them to tech up.
Factions, however, tech up a lot faster. I'm already up to the faction war after 30 hours. It took about 60 hours or so to get there. I dunno if it's because I know what I'm doing now, or if it's a veteran thing.
Once again Anu and Synedrion declared war on NJ first, and then they got their arses handed to them so I had to stop my ally from murdering them. Oh well, materials are materials, and if it pisses off NJ too much there's tech I want to steal from the other two.

Kaos Engines wasn't as important as I thought it would be. You can actually ignore most of it. Part of the issue is that all of these upgrades and fancy weapons cost a bit of materials, and I need those for equipment and bases.

Infested Skies is...ok. The air battle isn't as bad as I thought it would be, although it is pretty stupid that both aircraft just approach each other and there's no distance mechanic. Whilst I did think it was better than Enemy Unknown's aerial combat, it is still not as good as UFO defense or xenonauts.
The behemoth is overall manageable, except for when it spawns in a place with no radar coverage and just starts making infested havens. That's probably more of a skill issue though.

Corrupted Horizons is alright. It is pretty annoying and cheap when the game randomly generates two acherons that you have to deal with that just constantly summon reinforcments or heal each other, but when it's just one its fine.
Mutoids are pretty cool. I like them, and I like them more as soldiers than PP's weird-xcom esque super soldiers.
Which is weird, considerating that they are literally clone soldiers with mutant abilities.

Mutoid Jumps don't seem to work though? I tried doing a salvage mission with them and they refused to hop up a floor, wanting to use the ladder instead. I couldn't even use Dash to jump up there, which was annoying.

 

[MrBuzzKill]

Completed this game recently on Veteran, can be a bit boring with all the samey missions over and over again but the aiming and limb systems are godlike. Wish more games had something like that.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

The ballistic system and aim mechanic is great, though I wish your soldiers actually used cover instead of poking their heads out all of the time.
It gets pretty frustrating when an enemy sniper shoots through 3 buildings and nails your dude when he's behind a wall.

That was the sort of shit that happened in xenonauts and it sucked there and it sucks here.

 

[gurugeorge]

Completed this game recently on Veteran, can be a bit boring with all the samey missions over and over again but the aiming and limb systems are godlike. Wish more games had something like that.

There's Project Haven coming up, which will have a similar kind of system. The idea has legs, for sure.

 

[MrBuzzKill]

The ballistic system and aim mechanic is great, though I wish your soldiers actually used cover instead of poking their heads out all of the time.
It gets pretty frustrating when an enemy sniper shoots through 3 buildings and nails your dude when he's behind a wall.

That was the sort of shit that happened in xenonauts and it sucked there and it sucks here.

I can see how that can be frustrating for sure. Especially when there's a really obvious part i.e. a gun comically sticking out of the cover. But I feel it still looks much better than

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

The ballistic system and aim mechanic is great, though I wish your soldiers actually used cover instead of poking their heads out all of the time.
It gets pretty frustrating when an enemy sniper shoots through 3 buildings and nails your dude when he's behind a wall.

That was the sort of shit that happened in xenonauts and it sucked there and it sucks here.

I can see how that can be frustrating for sure. Especially when there's a really obvious part i.e. a gun comically sticking out of the cover. But I feel it still looks much better than

Oh certainly.
Firaxcom's RNG system is goofy as hell. In PP that crap doesn't happen.

Is it me, or is New Jericho the strongest faction overall?
They seem to have the best tech overall in terms of utility.

They have -
Purification grenades and flamethrowers, which hard counters most annoying pandoran types.
The Archangel missile launcher, which is the most accurate weapon in the game for some obscene reason.
Project Hecate, which makes your soldiers immune to virus, which late game becomes a huge problem.
The Armadillo, amazing for scavenging missions
Walls of Jericho, which makes pandoran invasions weaker
A research option that delays Pandoran attacks by 4 hours
Higher armour values, making your soldiers very durable to enemy attacks.
Mounted Weapons, turning your heavies into a mobile artillery pieces.

That's not to say that the other factions don't have good things either; Synedrion has nanobots, mist repellors and paralyzing weapons, which are incredibly useful for farming mutagens. They also have tech that increases power plant output and research speed, which is great for the early game. Laser weapons are also pretty good early game when pandorans have low armour.

Anu has their shotguns, Priests (which are an amazing support class) and food production, which allows you to basically trade away all of your food without worrying about upkeep.

However, I find myself relying on NJ tech much more than the other factions late game, and of the three NJ are the hardest to fight because they just have so many powerful tactical options.
Trying to defend an Anu shanty town from a NJ task force where they're just raining fury rockets and napalm onto you is a pain in the arse, especially when on the strategic map NJ just wrecks them. At least on my current game.

 

[Alienman]

The ballistic system and aim mechanic is great, though I wish your soldiers actually used cover instead of poking their heads out all of the time.
It gets pretty frustrating when an enemy sniper shoots through 3 buildings and nails your dude when he's behind a wall.

That was the sort of shit that happened in xenonauts and it sucked there and it sucks here.

I can see how that can be frustrating for sure. Especially when there's a really obvious part i.e. a gun comically sticking out of the cover. But I feel it still looks much better than

The difference with Xcom 2 is that you know what you get. A game with abstracted "boardgame" rules.

Having dudes popping in and out in cover through animations and having simulated projectiles was a bad choice, and at least to me ends up much more frustrating.

 

[Alienman]

Is it me, or is New Jericho the strongest faction overall?

I think they are the best faction easily, however, as you mention mist repellors are really important. That alone make that faction crucial. Otherwise they seem pretty poor comparable.

 

[MF]

Having dudes popping in and out in cover through animations and having simulated projectiles was a bad choice, and at least to me ends up much more frustrating.

I was inspired by the ballistic simulation hitbox idea and came up with a similar approach for The Jovian System, but lock the animation as soon as the player or the AI wants to do an aimed shot. It's not locked on the current frame either, rather it lerps to a default state so the rules remain consistent. I mean, that's pretty important in turn-based tactics. Consistent rules. I don't really understand why they didn't choose to do this in Phoenix Point. It seemed an obvious oversight to me, almost like it's not something they missed but decided against on purpose. Not sure why.

What's cool about it in my case is that character physique also influences this, and your size is tied to your stats. It pays to have a frail little character in certain situations. PP has fixed soldier sizes so it mostly just makes bulky aliens easier to hit.

 

[Jaedar]

Is it me, or is New Jericho the strongest faction overall?

Ehhh, they're certainly the strongest faction to go up against, but imo their weapons are pretty bad. I much prefer synedrion lasers to nj weaponry, and I am not a huge fan of NJ armors as well, preferring speed and accuracy. That being said, flame grenades and mounted weapons are crazy good.

Synedrion has really good basic weapons and armor, but their high tech tactical stuff is kinda shitty. Mist repellers are great however, and their vehicle is a really good support/stun tool.

Anu is kinda the worst imo. Don't like their armor or their weapons, although the priest is god tier support.

At the end of the day, every faction you can have on your side is extra strength.