KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[PanteraNera]

Now you don't

What?

but from this topic it is obvious that you and some others were confused for a long time as you expected an X-Com clone.

I wouldn't say it like that I expected it be to be more X-Com-like, I expected the hybrid-system to be "more" (for example the ability to manually crouch or god forbid going PRONE [heresy even X-Com didn't had that] or manually facing, also I expected the TU's not to be only for movement). Also I didn't expected them to go "full tripple A graphics". I also expected them to follow the art-direction they showed on Fig. And yeah there is more, but that is enough already.

So, no, I didn't expected an X-Com clone. But thanks for asking

 

[Grotesque]

New Jerchio "mount"

*edit* UnstableVoltage said it is at this stage concept, so no guarantee it will be in the game

I thought that the grey box stage (that involves many man-hours sunk in 3D modelling something) is after the concept stage.
How can you commit in modelling something if is not guaranteed to be in the game?
This kind of iteration only big studios with a shit tone of money afford.
The same with those 3D modelled weapons shown on Fig campaign that were scrapped because they did not fit the characters.
That's why pre-production is very important.

And to think like a retarded optimist, that is proof that they can afford this because they have way more than enough money.

 

[Jimmious]

I also backed PP, naturally. But I don't believe in anyone without doubt

I had guessed so, well I personally perceive you as mostly neutral. Neither hyped, nor overly worried.
How do you feel about your investment in PP so far? (I am genuinely curious)

The thing is that I generally enjoyed the nuXCOMs and the promise of an iteration with extra autism simulation sounds very good to me.. Also for whatever reason, I kind of "trust" Gollop - he looks like a serious man and he has so far delivered , for example with Chaos Chronicles.
Ofcourse I can't say I'm not worried that so far it seems a bit too much like nuXCOM - it's mainly the UI that bothers me to be honest. And not because I hate XCOM but because I'm afraid of a low effort approach - copy everything and add a couple of new things to spice it up.

 

[PanteraNera]

I do not have to ask Grotesque how he feels about his investment
Honestly I have a hard time understanding why so many do not care about what he just said. They have junked so much asset already, mostly if not all from the Fig prototype, all the weapons (weren't they even finished as in being fully textured) they did and now a mech (high-poly) model just as concept. Sure if they were a big studio with a crap-load of money, no problem, do as you please, but not with a limited budget, not if they aren't sure if they have enough money left for basic VO.

Jimmious thanks for sharing .
Hm, sometimes I think that you are just accepting current gaming way better than me, I actually hadn't played games for almost ten years, so I am still catching up. You would have liked PP more if it was more X-Com-like? But you know that this is not how it works these days, so PP is better than nothing and at least better than Firaxis take on XCOM. Something like that?

 

[Jimmious]

Jimmious thanks for sharing .
Hm, sometimes I think that you are just accepting current gaming way better than me, I actually hadn't played games for almost ten years, so I am still catching up. You would have liked PP more if it was more X-Com-like? But you know that this is not how it works these days, so PP is better than nothing and at least better than Firaxis take on XCOM. Something like that?

Cheers man
Honestly about how X-COMy or nuXCOMy the "ideal" game is... well, on the one hand I love complexity and deep mechanics a la X-COM or JA2 but simultaneously my time is much more limited than when I was 20, so "faster" and easier to get into games a la XCOM (that still provide some tactical challenge) are more than welcome. Especially coming after a period where there was almost nothing of the sort coming out.
Ideally I'd want something in the middle, maybe something like Battletech seems to be? Loads of numbers and stats but with "modern" presentation and ease of use.
What I really would prefer to avoid is the board-gamey feel of XCOM. That can only be achieved with more simulationy aspects.

I could ramble about the subject for quite some time

 

[Mazisky]

I did not. There are some personal aspects that i don't like so i am pretty unsure if i will like it or not, i guess i'll find out at release.

 

[ArchAngel]

Like Jimmious I am more concerned about some UI decisions than gameplay shown or features promised. Gameplay is more or less progressing as expected (maybe I expected them to show a bit more by now, most abilities in last demo were same ones from demo released during FIG campaign).
But it does seem like they might be progressing slower than even they expected. Atm I don't expect this game to get released in this year.

 

[Mazisky]

I am not even sure if i would like an Xcom 2 clone, even if i love Xcom 2.

That's because there is no reason to play another Xcom 2 with less budget when i can just play Xcom 2 (with a confirmed 2nd xpack coming).

So, even with all the "fanboysm" i hope this will be really different from Firaxis...maybe the strategic layer will change everyone opinion about the game

 

[PanteraNera]

Cheers man
Honestly about how X-COMy or nuXCOMy the "ideal" game is... well, on the one hand I love complexity and deep mechanics a la X-COM or JA2 but simultaneously my time is much more limited than when I was 20, so "faster" and easier to get into games a la XCOM (that still provide some tactical challenge) are more than welcome. Especially coming after a period where there was almost nothing of the sort coming out.
Ideally I'd want something in the middle, maybe something like Battletech seems to be? Loads of numbers and stats but with "modern" presentation and ease of use.
What I really would prefer to avoid is the board-gamey feel of XCOM. That can only be achieved with more simulationy aspects.

I could ramble about the subject for quite some time

Jimmious ... I know what you are talking about, as I have a child and a wife, there is so little time for gaming these days. The golden ages of my twenties are long gone. Ahhh playing a game for the first time, realizing its six o'clock in the morning, but being so excited about it to keep playing and nothing or nobody could hinder you. Fun times :D.

Hm, but still with way less time, I still prefer "slower" and "harder" games. But I can understand your point of view!

Honestly I am all in for improvements over JA2 or X-Com, ideally automatism you could turn on and off, improved UI and QOL enhancements, while still maintaining complexity and simulationy aspects and "fine tuning". If a 2AP hybrid system would let me do the same as the TU, I would be all fine.

I did not. There are some personal aspects that i don't like so i am pretty unsure if i will like it or not, i guess i'll find out at release.

Would you like to share the personal aspects?

Like Jimmious I am more concerned about some UI decisions than gameplay shown or features promised. Gameplay is more or less progressing as expected (maybe I expected them to show a bit more by now, most abilities in last demo were same ones from demo released during FIG campaign).
But it does seem like they might be progressing slower than even they expected. Atm I don't expect this game to get released in this year.

What concerns you about the UI decisions? Care to elaborate?

 

[Grotesque]

I do not have to ask Grotesque how he feels about his investment

I did not pledged money for the game during the Fig campaign because I was skeptical even if we were talking here about the father of X-COM and there was too little information that interested me.
After some pretty long time after the campaign and after reading statements that the game wants to have an in-depth base management with structures to build and an economic aspect, I decided to pledge and buy the collector's edition.

I was waiting to sell Torment Numenera collectors edition and use the money to buy this one but no one wanted to buy that crap and after getting fed up of waiting I took advantage of the promotional price reduction Phoenix Point had at some point; I told to myself that in the end, Terror From the Deep is the only game I broke-in (stole the key) in my father's work place to play in the middle of the night because I had no PC at home, so I have to own a CE copy if Gollop strikes again and delivers another masterpiece.
I still remember how cold was the hand handling the mouse at 4 AM but the joy was exquisite.

At this point all I hope is that I don't get another Torment paperweight on my hands.
Let it just be... mediocre.

 

[Mustawd]

How can you commit in modelling something if is not guaranteed to be in the game?

To be fair there’s still a lot of work to go into the texturing, rigging and animation of the thing, no?

But yah, overall seems dumb to create a 3D model if it’s just a concept. I wonder if the “concept” part is a misunderstanding.

 

[PanteraNera]

How can you commit in modelling something if is not guaranteed to be in the game?

To be fair there’s still a lit kf work to go into the texturing, rigging and animation of the thing, no?

But yah, overall seems dumb to create a 3D model if it’s just a concept. I wonder if the “concept” part is a misunderstanding.

 

[ArchAngel]

It is possible 3d model was already mostly made by one of the artists, most of these guys were making 3d models their whole life even before they started doing it professionally. It would have been easy to take one that was maybe less finished, improve it a bit and then have it as concept.

 

[Shog-goth]

it is obvious that you and some others were confused for a long time as you expected an X-Com clone.

I didn't expect an X-COM clone, but neither an XCOM one.

 

[Viata]

It is possible 3d model was already mostly made by one of the artists, most of these guys were making 3d models their whole life even before they started doing it professionally. It would have been easy to take one that was maybe less finished, improve it a bit and then have it as concept.

That would still require some time to make and, clearly, they seems to have a lot of money to spend on artist that is doing something that may not be in the game. It's not that easy to improve a bit and then have it as concept. It's not even easy for a concept artist, let alone a 3D artist.

To be fair there’s still a lot of work to go into the texturing, rigging and animation of the thing, no?

Still, the time it take to do that 3D model was not short.

 

[Grotesque]

To be fair there’s still a lot of work to go into the texturing, rigging and animation of the thing, no?

There are instances where artists make concept directly in 3D after they receive a vague 2D quick sketch but the level of detail on that modeled mech (air intakes grill, leg suspension pistons, access hatch hinges, etc.) says it took effort to be made.

Modelling in such detail ideas that are just "floating around" means that working as a 3D modeler in Bulgaria pays like shit

 

[Mustawd]

Concepting in 3D seems like a really dumb idea unless you mean just blocks and very primitive shapes.

 

[PanteraNera]

It is possible 3d model was already mostly made by one of the artists, most of these guys were making 3d models their whole life even before they started doing it professionally. It would have been easy to take one that was maybe less finished, improve it a bit and then have it as concept.

As I have worked as an 3D artist (especially on mechanical objects, my organic modeling was never that good) I can tell you that it is way less time consuming to create something new rather than trying to fix or alter something, even more so if it involves moving parts.
Also by the shape and overall look it is designed to clearly fit in with the other New Jerchio stuff that has been showed so far.
If you look closely the model has a lot of detail in it and is a solid base for the normal map.

 

[PanteraNera]

Concepting in 3D seems like a really dumb idea unless you mean just blocks and very primitive shapes.

True regarding mechanical stuff. With organic stuff not so true thanks to ZBrush.

 

[Grotesque]

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Mechs are useless fantasy bullshit however many legs are given to those.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Mechs are useless fantasy bullshit however many legs are given to those.

Exactly. Plasma hovertanks and mectroopers are much more realistic.

X-com could hand wave those with majicks of elerium and alien alloys.

Though I'm complaining about feasibility of tech in setting that has already sneaked in ergonomic horrors of WH 40k servo-arms and shoulder mounted missile launchers.

 

[Galdred]

Mechs are useless fantasy bullshit however many legs are given to those.

VOTOMS sized mechs are still perfectly reasonable.

 

[Mustawd]

Just look at the intro, it's basically a comic book.

FTFY.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Just look at the intro, it's basically a comic book.

FTFY.

I really hope that dude that designed Gambit got some royalties.