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KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

Infinitron

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/03/29/phoenix-point-is-so-much-like-xcom-it-scares-me/

Phoenix Point is so much like XCOM it scares me

phoenix-point-preview-1-620x300.jpg


The mutant spider queen ripped through another building and I knew my team was dead. This didn’t bother me, I’ve played enough of nu-XCOM to accept the loss of humanity’s last hope. But there’s something more unsettling than being impaled by a large arachnid in Phoenix Point. Its the game’s uncanny and unnerving resemblance to its XCOM cousins. It’s like seeing a doppelgänger of your mate suddenly appear behind him, walking to the bar. You sit there stuttering, looking over his shoulder, wondering who’s really sitting in front of you.

I’m not the only one to remark on this similarity. At one point during my playthrough in the halls of GDC, two developers from Firaxis – the developers of XCOM: Enemy Unknown and its sequel – appeared behind me like phantoms. They stood there watching the massacre unfold. “Looks good,” one of them said, pointedly. “I like that line-of-sight thing.” I stood between the developers of both games, controller in hand, and felt like a guest at an awkward family barbecue.

There are differences, of course. The story is an aquatic interpretation of the apocalyptic B-movie threat. A microbial mist is spreading across the globe, creating mutant hybrids of sea creatures that want to wipe out humankind. But more important than the tale are the changes to the combat. That “line-of-sight thing”, for instance, is fresh. When you hover your mouse around the map, contemplating where to move soldierman Billy Bigarms (as his customisable name will surely read), you’ll be able to see shimmering blue lines which reveal the enemies you could target from that particular spot. A line will also turn red to show you if an enemy will be flanked, making it easier to consider possible vantage points at a glance.

phoenix-point-preview-2-620x349.jpg


This small but useful change seems to be representative of the game’s attitude to its XCOM brethren. It doesn’t seek to make sweeping changes to the machine. It just wants to add a cog here, a spring there. Small, workmanlike alterations to a device that already functions perfectly well. At least, that’s how it appears in the midst of a fight. It took me less than a minute to feel comfortable on this battlefields, and all the controls – camera rotation, soldier swapping – were identical to Firaxis’ alien stompers.

This attitude of incremental improvement is part of an odd relationship that’s arisen between Firaxis and Snapshot. Jullian Gollop and his team at Mythos may have invented XCOM back in the early nineties, but Firaxis re-invented it, putting Gollop’s new studio in the odd position of building upon a design that was already based on his own work. Imagine being asked to renovate a church, knowing that it was built on foundations of an even older temple you built yourself decades ago. A lot of people would be so affronted by this new religion, they’d want to knock that church down. Gollop wants to refurbish the steeple.

phoenix-point-preview-3-620x308.jpg


Other differences are hard to notice at first but they’re pointed out to me by Snapshot co-founder David Kaye. Bullet trajectory matters here, he says, so a lamp post or a crumbling wall between you and your target will sometimes get in the way. Which means there is an element of aiming down your sights, or at least making sure your firing line is clear before you put Sally Shotgun in harm’s way for the sake of an opportunistic shot at a shielded crab man.

Each unit also has limited “willpower”, a row of blue pips next to the character’s health. You need a certain amount of these to use special abilities, like using a jetpack or dashing into cover after taking a shot. Even going into Overwatch (yes, it’s called Overwatch here too, so strong is the flavour of XCOM) will require a certain level of willpower. But willpower can be diminished by “serious injuries, death of a comrade or facing terrifying monsters”. You can refresh each soldier’s willpower by resting for a turn, killing enemies or achieving mission objectives. In my demo, reaching a control room gave one of my soldiers three willpips back – not exactly a windfall and not enough in my mind to make the suicidal dash for this room worth it, but in other circumstances it may have made all the difference

phoenix-point-preview-5-620x335.jpg


Oh, there’s also the limbs thing. When targeting an enemy (mutant crab, rotten gunman, quite-large spider) you get to aim at specific body parts, a la the VATS system of the modern Fallouts. Damage the leg of a crabbie and he will be unable to scuttle long distances during his turn. Blast the arms of a decaying muto rifleman and he’ll be unable to lob grenades at your squad mates. There is a trade off here, however. Your soldiers are all susceptible to the same injuries. Riley Rocketlauncher won’t be able to do his job with two busted biceps.

This was how it went for me. I’d stormed the gates of an enemy stronghold that was covered in goop and the remnants of civilisation, judiciously killing the crab boys that tried to stop me. But once inside, things went sour. The spider showed up, a tank of health and horror, and soon all my troops were legless or bleeding out (the bleeding status causes you to lose one unit of health every turn, like the poison of XCOM). My last surviving soldier scaled a nearby building and the spider queen stomped in pursuit, turning half the edifice to rubble. Finally, my sniper took an ultimate shot at the spider’s head, which exploded. Hooray! Wait. Not hooray.

phoenix-point-preview-6-620x307.jpg


The spider didn’t die. It just stood around, headless and angry. Then two crab boys appeared on either side of me and poked me to death with their pincers. A sorry end for my heroes. In the final game, enemies will be designed to “mutate” from fight to fight, adapting to the methods you use to defeat them (see the GIF here for all the possible combinations of crab boy that might appear). In the end, it didn’t take any special adaptation to finish off the New Jericho squad.

These gung-ho troopers (rest in peace) are a sample of the soldiers you’ll get, says Kaye. There are three factions in the overworld. The hippy dippy Synedrion, the militaristic and prejudiced New Jericho, and a tech-loving cult called the Disciples of Anu, with your own Phoenix Project presumably acting as the mixing bowl for all of them. Although recruitment and co-operation seems to be the goal, you can end up fighting against the other factions because of decisions you make in the overworld, the Geoscape.

phoenix-point-preview-4-620x324.jpg


And that’s the part of Phoenix Point that’s still shrouded in microbial darkness. I didn’t get to see what the management side of things looks like at all, but was told “it becomes more like Civ at that point”. Considering the similarities to nu-XCOM in every other respect, I’d be surprised to see it drifting too far from that board game tone of moving a piece there, picking up money here, accepting a mission over there, and so on. But perhaps we should also expect some glittering new cogs to throw us off.

I stepped away from my mission a failure, a victim of the giganto-spider (can you believe that scoundrel Matt says he defeated it? Propaganda, if you ask me). But I did get an understanding of the game’s closeness to its Firaxis relations. How much the final game resembles XCOM: Enemy Unknown and XCOM 2 will have a big impact on how it comes together. Right now it’s uncanny, despite the small tweaks. That’s fine for those seeking a familiar crack at a humanity-threatening menace but there’s also the risk of tinkering with a near-perfect machine in such a way that it falls apart because of some tiny-yet-vital alteration.

Or it might solve a bunch of problems we never knew existed. Who knows? Like its mutant enemies, Phoenix Point is still evolving out of sight. I’m keen to see it emerge from the mist.
 

PanteraNera

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Nov 7, 2014
Messages
1,069
Weekly updates don't really prove anything
This.
AS ultimately proven by That which sleeps ;)

Devs are to blame also for this change in behavior. Making gaming out to be a service instead of something you just buy completed.
Yep, there is already a DLC announced for PP, to be fair it's free, but well I think we will get DLC's rather than proper add-on's or expansion pack's, if PP is successful enough that they will keep working on the game. Well, the wheel is spinning and one has to adapt to the new times. Slowly I am more and more realizing that indie dev's do not bring back the old times. At least most of them won't.

Then we have all other shit on top of that, abandon early access games, Kickstarter scams, games without content, making it politicized etc etc.
And this doesn't help at all.
That is why I am kind of upset about the whole visual change Snapshot has done, with out involving their Backers (honestly I do not give a crap about how the game looks, to a extend, I liked the old grimier look way better, also it looked more unique, my main worry in that regard is broken promise and how much money they are wasting on the graphics). Also while not overdoing it, I think the whole spiritual successor thing is back-firing with at least some people idiots like me that were fabulously optimistic ;) .
I think the RPS preview Infinitron just posted sums it up pretty much, while I think the author was very polite.
Also one thing I think is totally off, Snapshot is claiming (at least on facebook and discord) that they are not a rip-off of XCOM, as Julian Gollop is the creator of X-Com that was before XCOM.
To me that is like if Carl Benz would have build a Porsche sports car and when someone would complain saying "Duh, I invented the car, I have every right to do this :P "
 

Mustawd

Guest
I think the RPS preview Infinitron just posted sums it up pretty much, while I think the author was very polite.


Umm, did you read the whole thing? The article basically says it being close to XCOM is a good thing. If anyone is worried it’s because they might mess with the succesful XCOM formula too much. Per, the article anyhow.
 

Sarissofoi

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Mar 24, 2017
Messages
778
It would probably been pointless for them to continue talking with "what about the mods" -crowd.

I think there could have been some very practical and constructive advice from Overhype on how technically-minded BB fans could unpack/repack stuff to play around with it, without necessarily committing them to supporting mods and mod tools. Certainly better than the radio silence. Sarissofoi

Who is disturbing my slumber?
Is this a time to rant about treacherous Krauts?
Its always that time.

On the serious note all that devs blogs and weekly updates are nothing but a hype tool that is used to build good publicity and generate fanbase=sales.
Its not really a mark of quality of game itself(especially if you decide to finish it by quickly tying loose knots only so you can put a mark on TODO list).
Still its nice to have. Like in Starsector for example(where Devs blogs are well done, deeply explained and followed by quality content).
 

PanteraNera

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Messages
1,069
I think the RPS preview Infinitron just posted sums it up pretty much, while I think the author was very polite.
Umm, did you read the whole thing? The article basically says it being close to XCOM is a good thing. If anyone is worried it’s because they might mess with the succesful XCOM formula too much. Per, the article anyhow.

Uhm, yes?! Maybe I am lost in translation but are these things, "good things"?

It’s like seeing a doppelgänger of your mate suddenly appear behind him, walking to the bar. You sit there stuttering, looking over his shoulder, wondering who’s really sitting in front of you.
This attitude of incremental improvement is part of an odd relationship that’s arisen between Firaxis and Snapshot. Jullian Gollop and his team at Mythos may have invented XCOM back in the early nineties, but Firaxis re-invented it, putting Gollop’s new studio in the odd position of building upon a design that was already based on his own work. Imagine being asked to renovate a church, knowing that it was built on foundations of an even older temple you built yourself decades ago. A lot of people would be so affronted by this new religion, they’d want to knock that church down. Gollop wants to refurbish the steeple.
Other differences are hard to notice at first but they’re pointed out to me by Snapshot co-founder David Kaye.
Considering the similarities to nu-XCOM in every other respect, I’d be surprised to see it drifting too far from that board game tone of moving a piece there, picking up money here, accepting a mission over there, and so on.

Also while reading it a second time I seem to have missed the part again were the author said that it is a good thing that it is pretty much a 1 to 1 copy of XCOM 2 with some small tweaks.
 

jdmatson

Literate
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
Messages
9
It would probably been pointless for them to continue talking with "what about the mods" -crowd.

I think there could have been some very practical and constructive advice from Overhype on how technically-minded BB fans could unpack/repack stuff to play around with it, without necessarily committing them to supporting mods and mod tools. Certainly better than the radio silence. Sarissofoi

Who is disturbing my slumber?
Is this a time to rant about treacherous Krauts?
Its always that time.

On the serious note all that devs blogs and weekly updates are nothing but a hype tool that is used to build good publicity and generate fanbase=sales.
Its not really a mark of quality of game itself(especially if you decide to finish it by quickly tying loose knots only so you can put a mark on TODO list).
Still its nice to have. Like in Starsector for example(where Devs blogs are well done, deeply explained and followed by quality content).
It is really nice to get regular updates, even if it's only every month or so and even if all they say is we're still here and we haven't forgotten you. I bought The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing on GOG and we got the Final Cut version like six months after steam did. Neocore Games only gave us a couple of updates through the whole process and it was super frustrating because I wasn't sure that they hadn't just abandoned us.
 

Mustawd

Guest
Maybe I am lost in translation but are these things, "good things"?

Well, yes. I do think most of the tone is lost in translation.

I mean the “i can’t belive it’s not XCOM” bit at the beginning is to just emphasize the similarities between the two and how surprised he was. It wasn’t a negative.

EDIT: Also, the church example is to talk about how unusual the relationship between Gollop’s old creations and Firaxis’s reboot. Unusual, especially in the context of the article, is not necessarily a bad thing. It just means it’s not..well, usual. It’s out of the ordinary.
 

Mustawd

Guest
How much the final game resembles XCOM: Enemy Unknown and XCOM 2 will have a big impact on how it comes together. Right now it’s uncanny, despite the small tweaks. That’s fine for those seeking a familiar crack at a humanity-threatening menace but there’s also the risk of tinkering with a near-perfect machine in such a way that it falls apart because of some tiny-yet-vital alteration

You asked for citation. This quote basically says there are two types of trains of thought most PP players will have:

1. Cool, some change on XCOM formula would be fun
2. Please dont ruin XCOM, it’s perfect as it is.

Add that to the comparing of how PP is similar to XCOM and then the rest of the article has an overall positive context.

Not sure how else to explain that to you tbh.
 

Shog-goth

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Because games publishers are risk-adverse and don't want to fund projects like old-school tactical games that can't guarantee big sales. It would take a funding system that allows interested gamers to finance independently this kind of projects and finally free the developers from these chains.

large.jpg
 

ArchAngel

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Messages
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Why couldn't the creator of X-COM make a game based on X-COM that plays like X-COM? :negative:
Because that is not what he pitched and that is not what would bring in enough sales.
Gollop already went through passion project phase long time ago and he already made a name for himself.
At this point making games is to put food on the table and have a growing company.
 
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Because games publishers are risk-adverse and don't want to fund projects like old-school tactical games that can't guarantee big sales. It would take a funding system that allows interested gamers to finance independently this kind of projects and finally free the developers from these chains.

large.jpg

yet, every time something slightly different gets published it sells like hot cakes, for as crap as it can be.
i'll never understand rich people, they'd give everything they have to have more but they act like they haven't the slightest clue on how to become rich. how did they become rich in the first place?
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
22,000
Because games publishers are risk-adverse and don't want to fund projects like old-school tactical games that can't guarantee big sales. It would take a funding system that allows interested gamers to finance independently this kind of projects and finally free the developers from these chains.

large.jpg

yet, every time something slightly different gets published it sells like hot cakes, for as crap as it can be.
i'll never understand rich people, they'd give everything they have to have more but they act like they haven't the slightest clue on how to become rich. how did they become rich in the first place?
Cheating, lying, corruption, nepotism... at least that is how most of them got rich.
 

PanteraNera

Arcane
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
1,069
Why couldn't the creator of X-COM make a game based on X-COM that plays like X-COM? :negative:
Because that is not what he pitched and that is not what would bring in enough sales.
Gollop already went through passion project phase long time ago and he already made a name for himself.
At this point making games is to put food on the table and have a growing company.
yet, every time something slightly different gets published it sells like hot cakes, for as crap as it can be.
i'll never understand rich people, they'd give everything they have to have more but they act like they haven't the slightest clue on how to become rich. how did they become rich in the first place?
Cheating, lying, corruption, nepotism... at least that is how most of them got rich.
Makes you think.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
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Messages
22,000
I don't consider people like Gollop rich. But if you are trying to say that he was lying or cheating to get money for PP, we already disproved that.
 

PanteraNera

Arcane
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Nov 7, 2014
Messages
1,069
I don't consider people like Gollop rich. But if you are trying to say that he was lying or cheating to get money for PP, we already disproved that.
Neither do I consider Gollop rich.

Just that he is, as you said in the first quote, interested in getting money (instead of doing something visionary / different from mainstream).
And in the second quote you explained what you think makes people get money.
I just put what you said in context and find it rather funny ;)

Also when was it proven that he was not dishonest? (Link?)
 

PanteraNera

Arcane
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
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I also backed PP, naturally. But I don't believe in anyone without doubt
I had guessed so, well I personally perceive you as mostly neutral. Neither hyped, nor overly worried.
How do you feel about your investment in PP so far? (I am genuinely curious)
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
22,000
I did support the FIG campaign. And I never had any doubts that it would be an improved Xcom.
Huh, that is a surprise for me, that you put your money into it.
I have no doubt that it will be an improved XCOM as well.
Now you don't have doubts but from this topic it is obvious that you and some others were confused for a long time as you expected an X-Com clone.

EDIT: expanded my sentence.
 
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