Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

[santino27]

FWIW, the Fig hoodie physical reward was also just a standard black hoodie with the word obsidian (cheaply) added across the front with iron-on letters. No business logo or anything else. Feargus cashing those checks.

 

[LESS T_T]

Steam page for SSSawyer: https://store.steampowered.com/app/734830/Pillars_of_Eternity_II_Deadfire__Seeker_Slayer_Survivor/

Prove your worth in the crucible of Kazuwari, where the arena's masters and their worshipers exalt the victorious and delight in the blood forfeited by the defeated. Something corrupts the spirits that dwell in the very stones of the crucible, and only you can uncover its secrets.

In this new DLC for Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire:

• Seek glory, treasure, and truth in an arena designed to test the mettle of you and your party.
  
• Slay your way through the most challenging foes you have ever faced, both past and present.
  
• Survive the trials and whims of the spirits and their worshipers to prove you stand above even the greatest the Deadfire has to offer.

 

[2house2fly]

I read the drama over his decision on the Deadfire ending. It's always this with him, I understand his arguments and I agree when he explains, but when I see it in practice...

So your argument is that you do a non-climactic ending because it's more realistic - "that's how it's in real life, you set out for somewhere but end up somewhere else".

Ok, I understand you. But when you are making a 50+ hours fantasy role playing game, and you decide to give it a No Country for Old Men ending, there is a high chance you will be misunderstood.

Sawyer never said anything about realism, he said having the player defeat Eothas wasn't the story he had in mind. Also the end of PoE2 is climactic, at least on paper- you reach the legendary lost city, you work ancient machinery, you face off against the strongest faction you didn't side with, and there's all kinds of player-flattery along the lines of "none of this would be possible without you". All you don't do is stop Eothas

 

[Yosharian]

I read the drama over his decision on the Deadfire ending. It's always this with him, I understand his arguments and I agree when he explains, but when I see it in practice...

So your argument is that you do a non-climactic ending because it's more realistic - "that's how it's in real life, you set out for somewhere but end up somewhere else".

Ok, I understand you. But when you are making a 50+ hours fantasy role playing game, and you decide to give it a No Country for Old Men ending, there is a high chance you will be misunderstood.

Sawyer never said anything about realism, he said having the player defeat Eothas wasn't the story he had in mind. Also the end of PoE2 is climactic, at least on paper- you reach the legendary lost city, you work ancient machinery, you face off against the strongest faction you didn't side with, and there's all kinds of player-flattery along the lines of "none of this would be possible without you". All you don't do is stop Eothas

There's nothing wrong with having an ending that isn't 'Defeat the Mega-Boss Eothas!'.

The problem is that there's nothing else of worth. There's no intellectual pay-off at all.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I played through that part yesterday. It was actually well written, although it dragged on for too long from the beginning of the conversation with Eothas up to the moment where I could finally make a savegame.

I guess it's meant to raise the question to the player of whether human beings can be improved, and whether history is cyclical or linear. I liked the dialogue and the player's options for answers.

 

[Yosharian]

I played through that part yesterday. It was actually well written, although it dragged on for too long from the beginning of the conversation with Eothas up to the moment where I could finally make a savegame.

I guess it's meant to raise the question to the player of whether human beings can be improved, and whether history is cyclical or linear. I liked the dialogue and the player's options for answers.

Would you describe it as something worthy of being an intellectual reward for 50-80 hours of playtime?

I completely agree that it's a somewhat interesting conversation, but that wasn't really my point.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Would you describe it as something worthy of being an intellectual reward for 50-80 hours of playtime?

If that's the only reward the player was counting on, then no, but I hope the player will have found other rewarding activities and achievements to keep him playing that long.

Either that, or this must have been a really bored player, to stick with a game for 50-80 hours with nothing but the hope for a spectacular ending to keep him.

 

[Yosharian]

Would you describe it as something worthy of being an intellectual reward for 50-80 hours of playtime?

If that's the only reward the player was counting on, then no, but I hope the player will have found other rewarding activities and achievements to keep him playing that long.

Either that, or this must have been a really bored player, to stick with a game for 50-80 hours with nothing but the hope for a spectacular ending to keep him.

I'm not saying that it has to be the only thing to play those hours for, but what I am saying is that the ending has to be a reasonably satisfying pay-off for the investment of those hours. Having a little chat with Eothas and then pressing a button to choose your ending isn't really satisfying, IMO.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I'm not saying that it has to be the only thing to play those hours for, but what I am saying is that the ending has to be a reasonably satisfying pay-off for the investment of those hours. Having a little chat with Eothas and then pressing a button to choose your ending isn't really satisfying, IMO.

I agree with you, but with the caveat that "satisfaying pay-off" doesn't necessearily mean a big boss battle.

I haven't actually gone to Ukaizo yet, but I assume the problem with the Magran's teeth part is what I mentioned a little back - too little content meat on the bones of the story takes away from the dramatic effect that a revelation should have. Magran's Teeth's dungeon would have been a full chapter if this was IWD. Instead you have two-three smallish maps to clear out.

Given Deadfire's structure, wouldn't you raise the same criticism of Fallout (1)? If the player goes with the diplomatic resolution, what's the difference from an ending in Deadfire where the player dissuades Eothas?

 

[yes plz]

Fallout has the Mariposa Military Base, which is a decent 'dungeon'. Ukazio, on the other hand, is like three or four small screens long.

The diplomatic resolution of FO1 requires the player to have the right stats and/or to have learned the right information throughout the game, making it a satisfying result of their choices. The conversation with Eothas, though, doesn't really change in any meaningful way (at least as far as I know) based on anything you've done.

 

[Fairfax]

It seems the physical special edition is just a code, and I think the guy who shared the pictures has a data cap like Roguey:

 

[AwesomeButton]

Fallout has the Mariposa Military Base, which is a decent 'dungeon'. Ukazio, on the other hand, is like three or four small screens long.

The diplomatic resolution of FO1 requires the player to have the right stats and/or to have learned the right information throughout the game, making it a satisfying result of their choices. The conversation with Eothas, though, doesn't really change in any meaningful way (at least as far as I know) based on anything you've done.

I see. That's what I meant when I said they are not getting enough content and actual RPG gameplay to accompany the story. It was a similar thing with PoE. The content was stretched too thin. I think this may be a thing with Josh himself, because it's been repeating now.

 

[Yosharian]

Fallout has the Mariposa Military Base, which is a decent 'dungeon'. Ukazio, on the other hand, is like three or four small screens long.

The diplomatic resolution of FO1 requires the player to have the right stats and/or to have learned the right information throughout the game, making it a satisfying result of their choices. The conversation with Eothas, though, doesn't really change in any meaningful way (at least as far as I know) based on anything you've done.

Ukaizo reeks of 'we ran out of time/money'

 

[Infinitron]

Ukaizo reeks of 'we ran out of time/money'

Doesn't seem to make sense considering we know they spent more budget than originally intended to flesh out one of the optional faction areas. If they thought a main quest area was incomplete, they would have prioritized that first, no?

 

[Lacrymas]

Fallout has the Mariposa Military Base, which is a decent 'dungeon'. Ukazio, on the other hand, is like three or four small screens long.

The diplomatic resolution of FO1 requires the player to have the right stats and/or to have learned the right information throughout the game, making it a satisfying result of their choices. The conversation with Eothas, though, doesn't really change in any meaningful way (at least as far as I know) based on anything you've done.

I see. That's what I meant when I said they are not getting enough content and actual RPG gameplay to accompany the story. It was a similar thing with PoE. The content was stretched too thin. I think this may be a thing with Josh himself, because it's been repeating now.

Josh focuses on some trivial stuff that only stretch the games, the demand for 150 maps in PoE1 is one example. I do agree PoE2's ending lacks the 'metastructure' of Fallout 1's ending. If you are going for such an ending, you should really make sure the choices you make throughout the game can affect it, otherwise it does trivialize and strip all meaning from the rest of the game. DF is like this in general, though, it depends on your goodwill towards it to do 95% of the content. I can't recall any other game which is so unstructured and fragmented.

 

[santino27]

Fallout has the Mariposa Military Base, which is a decent 'dungeon'. Ukazio, on the other hand, is like three or four small screens long.

The diplomatic resolution of FO1 requires the player to have the right stats and/or to have learned the right information throughout the game, making it a satisfying result of their choices. The conversation with Eothas, though, doesn't really change in any meaningful way (at least as far as I know) based on anything you've done.

I see. That's what I meant when I said they are not getting enough content and actual RPG gameplay to accompany the story. It was a similar thing with PoE. The content was stretched too thin. I think this may be a thing with Josh himself, because it's been repeating now.

Josh focuses on some trivial stuff that only stretch the games, the demand for 150 maps in PoE1 is one example. I do agree PoE2's ending lacks the 'metastructure' of Fallout 1's ending. If you are going for such an ending, you should really make sure the choices you make throughout the game can affect it, otherwise it does trivialize and strip all meaning from the rest of the game. DF is like this in general, though, it depends on your goodwill towards it to do 95% of the content. I can't recall any other game which is so unstructured and fragmented.

Ironically, it reminds me of the complaints about ME3 where it seemed like all the decisions you'd made in the previous 3 games came down to one dialogue and a differently colored ending. Maybe he should work on the next Bioware game.

 

[Theldaran]

Well, Mass Effect 3 elicited major butthurt because it was a far more important release than the puny POE2.

Myself, I only played the first game and no more, but the majority of gamers enjoyed up to ME2, therefore the frustration. Most people however felt jaded with POE1 so they probably weren't expecting much of Deadfire, or even they didn't buy it at all.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Ukaizo reeks of 'we ran out of time/money'

Doesn't seem to make sense considering we know they spent more budget than originally intended to flesh out one of the optional faction areas. If they thought a main quest area was incomplete, they would have prioritized that first, no?

ukaizo consits of like 4 separate areas whose only purpose there is for you to move from one end of the map to the other through a fancy walkway

its very obvious that its unfinished as fuck

 

[fantadomat]

Ukaizo reeks of 'we ran out of time/money'

Doesn't seem to make sense considering we know they spent more budget than originally intended to flesh out one of the optional faction areas. If they thought a main quest area was incomplete, they would have prioritized that first, no?

That depends on the quality of the project lead. Also if you have no fucking ending and the deadline is closing you will rush it and leave the core as passable.

 

[Roguey]

It seems the physical special edition is just a code, and I think the guy who shared the pictures has a data cap like Roguey:

They announced it'd be this way during the Fig campaign, so he only has himself to blame.

 

[Infinitron]

Ukaizo reeks of 'we ran out of time/money'

Doesn't seem to make sense considering we know they spent more budget than originally intended to flesh out one of the optional faction areas. If they thought a main quest area was incomplete, they would have prioritized that first, no?

ukaizo consits of like 4 separate areas whose only purpose there is for you to move from one end of the map to the other through a fancy walkway

its very obvious that its unfinished as fuck

Also:

 

[TT1]

So fix it, you fucking indie moron

 

[2house2fly]

There's nothing wrong with having an ending that isn't 'Defeat the Mega-Boss Eothas!'.

The problem is that there's nothing else of worth. There's no intellectual pay-off at all.

I agree, that's why I said it's climactic "on paper". For all its faults PoE1 successfully managed to create a feeling of things coming together in the final area, Deadfire just kind of ends with a bunch of things happening at the same time. Chatting with Eothas would be a fine ending if you felt appropriately triumphant after fighting the faction you betrayed, but the dialogue is too perfunctory to really achieve that- probably because there are, what, thirteen possible people you can end up speaking to?

 

[yes plz]

"it's not incomplete, we're just shitty at our jobs! honest!"

sadly believable

 

[2house2fly]

Yeah no fucking shit Josh. Half the problems with Deadfire come down to over-correction. People didn't get what was going on in the last game,OK let's start this one off with several recaps of both the previous game and the start of this one. People complained that their character wanted to leave the country instead of following the main quest. OK, you have to be within 1000 miles of Eothas or you'll die, and also the gods are demanding that you follow him, none of this matters in-game but it means your character has to stay in the game area. People didn't finish the game, OK the main story is now five quests, surely people will be more likely to get through five measly quests. The last game wasn't open enough with plot-gated areas, OK this one is completely open from the start which creates this massive friction between the urgent main quest you have to follow now or risk the gods' wrath and the huge map full of unconnected side areas, but we're too heavily flop-sweating from trying to do what people want us to do instead of what we want to do to try and make any of this work. jfc