Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Lacrymas]

Maybe I am biased because I am a much bigger fan of BG2 where the big city is at the beginning, but you shouldn't have to put the big city at the end. The problem is solved if you design PoTD based on the assumption that players will do the game's easier quests before the harder quests.

The problem is not where the big city is located, but that it occupies the same design space as all the other maps. The pacing feels off because there is no pacing, everything is suspended in the air, equivalent and interchangeable with each other in that context. BG1 and 2 did it well because it was clear what function the big cities have in the game. Neketaka could've been in the middle of the game, but you somehow shouldn't have been able to leave it until you progress the main plot, so it gels better with the rest of the content in terms of pacing.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

The problem is not where the big city is located, but that it occupies the same design space as all the other maps. The pacing feels off because there is no pacing, everything is suspended in the air, equivalent and interchangeable with each other in that context. BG1 and 2 did it well because it was clear what function the big cities have in the game. Neketaka could've been in the middle of the game, but you somehow shouldn't have been able to leave it until you progress the main plot, so it gels better with the rest of the content in terms of pacing.

You didn't played the game, how could you know?
To people who think game need "gate content": I don't see any need in "gating content" btw, but if you really want to speaking about "gateway for content" it could be done with sea monsters and storms/maelstroms, and it would be lore friendly because in-game books in PoE and PoE 2 suggest that Deadfire is fucking dangerous.
And monsters should be not text based encounter,but there should be battle encounters and only than we speaking about normal way to "gating content" in open seas. I just don't see any other way.

 

[Trashos]

I think the Achievements!!1!!1! thing is can be dealt with by giving cheesy options to the players (like BG2 did before Achievements!!1!!1! was a thing) or by fixing the difficulty with a semi-official mod like was done for FONV. Anyway, it is theoretically doable, if Josh cares enough to do it (of course, with Josh the former option is out of the question).

On difficulty pacing. Even If that's true Lacrymas, the question remains whether it is possible at all to take care of pacing within the current systems (without significant gating). We shall see, I guess. Athkatla has all sorts of encounters of varying difficulty (from extremely easy to Kangaxx), and I love it.

 

[fantadomat]

The problem is not where the big city is located, but that it occupies the same design space as all the other maps. The pacing feels off because there is no pacing, everything is suspended in the air, equivalent and interchangeable with each other in that context. BG1 and 2 did it well because it was clear what function the big cities have in the game. Neketaka could've been in the middle of the game, but you somehow shouldn't have been able to leave it until you progress the main plot, so it gels better with the rest of the content in terms of pacing.

You didn't played the game, how could you know?
To people who think game need "gate content": I don't see any need in "gating content" btw, but if you really want to speaking about "gateway for content" it could be done with sea monsters and storms/maelstroms, and it would be lore friendly because in-game books in PoE and PoE 2 suggest that Deadfire is fucking dangerous.
And monsters should be not text based encounter,but there should be battle encounters and only than we speaking about normal way to "gating content" in open seas. I just don't see any other way.

It depends how the content is gated,now i am replaying BG1 and having more fun with it than with deadfire. Te content is gated in a way that doesn't leave you hungry for content.

 

[ScrotumBroth]

There's always a heavy price to pay for having an open, non-linear game.

Deadfire does a lot to try and encourage you to explore, both by giving you quests in Neketaka that can only be done if you leave the city, and by tying a lot of triggers to advancing main quest, which again, requires you to leave the main city.

But if some people have a playstyle where they just methodically clear area after area, they will always just go back and continue cleaning, unless you force them not to. And that requires putting the game on rails. You can do it AoD style where the game is non-linear only within each act, but remaining content is blocked by plot-gates, or you can do it Wasteland 2 style with radiation zones, or you can do some various other shit.

But I think that with a seafaring game, it really had to be a no-compromise completely open, with no plot-gating, otherwise whatever the fuck is even a point of having a seafaring setting.

You make it so you reach max level in the city, and the challenges outside are not gated by level but encounter difficulty.

That will only fuck up the people who explore a lot from the start. There's no pleasing everybody.

Heavily agree. First playthrough is always the best, but for the best roleplaying experience I always find the second or third playthrough hits the spot. By that time, I know the intent devs had, so I can adjust accordingly to get the most out of it.

 

[entr0py]

I'm still in the early stages of the game, just got to Neketaka and I'm enjoying it so far. IMO all of your above points about being a roflstomp if you have leveled enough in the city should be eliminated by the in-game mechanics of upward level scaling, ain't it?

Judging from your posts this feature was either not turned on in your playthrough or it doesn't help much in ramping up the difficulty, would be interested what's your opinion of this feature, I myself love the concept that they try to keep fights engaging even for higher level parties. My experience on PotD so far that it really needs tuning as it is quite easy.

On a separate note: my main gripe about the companions is how awful their stats/classes are in most of the cases. I don't know why they don't let us distribute their attributes and pick their classes/subclasses, IMO DoS2 did this one thing really well. I want to play with full-fledged characters integrated into the story but I also want to have a well-functioning party and I couldn't get both of these in one playthrough which is a shame. Also so far companions seem rather bland, they feel somehow "soulless" and none of them could get me to care about them. The sidekicks I have found so far seem to have more interesting personalities/quirkyness than the normal companions...

 

[Sizzle]

One way they could have handled Neketaka (and the various factions and their related quests therein) - have quests become available as you progress your standing with a faction (and the part of the city which it controls).

This would mean that random faction-aligned NPCs aren't jumping at the chance to give you quests, seeing as they don't know you, and they exist in a very precocious stalemate.

Which would serve two important purposes:

1) It would limit the amount of XP you could farm right from the start.

2) It would make the world feel more alive and make more sense - both in-game and lore-wise.

But we can't have such semi-gated content in a modern game, now, can we?

 

[Shadenuat]

Gotta have the Underdark.

Gated content might look stupid in game like this, but there's already Ondra's Mortar. You think you need better ship, but I am not even sure you need one. Game states you need one with dragon sails and such, but I don't remember losing more than 20-40 hp when going in without any help and screwing every faction mashing 1111, so you don't even need a bigger more expensive ship maybe.
Sad that place like Ondra's Mortar is artificially locked by main plot progression too, no matter how good your ship is - it's as if some biomes were locked by a script in minecraft-like, if it is, why have all that text quest content?

You need something to look up to, something to conquer on your 150k of worth galleon, to plunder with 17+ level party. I looked up to that gated chain of islands, and we know what's there. Basically nothing.

 

[Tigranes]

I'm still in the early stages of the game, just got to Neketaka and I'm enjoying it so far. IMO all of your above points about being a roflstomp if you have leveled enough in the city should be eliminated by the in-game mechanics of upward level scaling, ain't it?

Judging from your posts this feature was either not turned on in your playthrough or it doesn't help much in ramping up the difficulty, would be interested what's your opinion of this feature, I myself love the concept that they try to keep fights engaging even for higher level parties. My experience on PotD so far that it really needs tuning as it is quite easy.

On a separate note: my main gripe about the companions is how awful their stats/classes are in most of the cases. I don't know why they don't let us distribute their attributes and pick their classes/subclasses, IMO DoS2 did this one thing really well. I want to play with full-fledged characters integrated into the story but I also want to have a well-functioning party and I couldn't get both of these in one playthrough which is a shame. Also so far companions seem rather bland, they feel somehow "soulless" and none of them could get me to care about them. The sidekicks I have found so far seem to have more interesting personalities/quirkyness than the normal companions...

Some people speculated that upscaling is bugged. I obviously can't tell as I'm on my first playthrough, but POTD+Upscaling is generally easier than POE1 POTD.

Upscaling is perfectly fine, it's one of many ways they can establish some proper challenge, but whatever they did with it clearly is not enough.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

I really don't see why such things are needed on PotD, unless we are under the assumption that PotD is not for thick-skinned veteran players of the game. And if we are under that assumption, there is really no serious discussion to be had on the matter.

It's a question of whether PoTD in such an open game like Deadfire can be actually balanced for expert players who are doing multiple runs. And I don't see how it can, unless those players self-restrict their usage of meta knowledge at least a little bit.

For example, I've done one full run and started two others, where I gave up somewhere in middle of Neketaka. At this point I can roughly plot in my head how to quickly get almost all of Neketaka's best items, and some of the big XP quests, with minimal effort and little to none combat required.

Roughly it would be like this:

Spoiler

get enough skill in Mechanics to rob all the shopkeepers in Periki's Overlook, raid Arkemyr's mansion and his vault quickly in pacifist mode, do quick run of Fort Deadlight using stealth/assasination solution, do a quick run of Hasongo in stealth, buy legendary arquebus from Brass Citadel, and solve the family feud quest through raiding Bardatti vault and then wiping the Bardatti.

At this point I"m like level 9-10, loaded for bear with endgame or close to endgame items, and so obviously I'll be able to crush all of the encounters far above my level, even if Obsidian significantly buffs the difficulty.

 

[Trashos]

On a separate note: my main gripe about the companions is how awful their stats/classes are in most of the cases. I don't know why they don't let us distribute their attributes and pick their classes/subclasses, IMO DoS2 did this one thing really well. I want to play with full-fledged characters integrated into the story but I also want to have a well-functioning party and I couldn't get both of these in one playthrough which is a shame.

I think this is usually done so that the player is not (too) deterred from choosing a companion's class for his PC. BG2 did the same thing to an extent. Also, a separate issue is that the stats have to fit the companion's personality.

It's a question of whether PoTD in such an open game like Deadfire can be actually balanced for expert players who are doing multiple runs. And I don't see how it can, unless those players self-restrict their usage of meta knowledge at least a little bit.

I am sticking to my belief that PoTD has to be challenging even when taking into account the optimal route of doing things. You can do similar things like you described in BG2 SoA (take Jansen, get some potions of master thievery, rob everyone's awesome gear), and it's still challenging. So it's doable from a gear perspective, the question is whether they want to do it.

 

[Tygrende]

I never thought that by playing the game I would be ''cheesing'', which is really a new ground to me: playing the content of a game in the order that seems the most appropriate is now cheesing. Gotcha.

Counter-intuitive designs like that seem to be an inherent quality of RtwP RPGs. As an example, I don't think there's any other kind of RPG where it's sometimes preferable to play with autopilot AI because actually playing the game giving orders to your character(s) is considered too much "micro".

 

[AwesomeButton]

Work is continuing, as I'm waiting for the patch that will make the game playable on higher difficulties, and hopefully somewhat challenging.

 

[Infinitron]

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/174453004921/eine-frage-zur-priester-fertigkeit-geweihter

A Consecrated Ground Priest Conspiracy: In PoE I, the area of impact was tied to the character who used the skill and moved accordingly with the character. In Deadfire, however, the area of effect is stationary and remains at the point where the skill was activated for the duration of its effect. Is this change intentional or is it an error (as already reported in the official Deadfire forum)?

Good question. The change is not an error. When the skill is coupled with the character, it looks like an aura. We think that the skill makes more sense when it is stationary. The name is "Consecrated Ground" , not "Consecrated Priest".

 

[Shadenuat]

More changes to make priest a shitty class. Also noticed it playing fighter/cleric. Any other support class ends up a better dual to make an actual fighter/cleric (paladin, chanter).

 

[Projas]

Anyone found the Codex backer weapon yet? Don't think I've seen it posted.

 

[Malpercio]

That's not what your post implies, given you say they chose to pander to ex-biodrones. The game has a huge focus on c&c, quest with multiple outcomes and exploration. Romance fans don't care about these things, they don't even know what itemization is (Hence why shit like Witcher 3 is popular)

Witcher's itemisation looks competent when you compare it to divos2.

Witcher's itemization is overdone. They should have just gotten rid of all the leveled generic gear from loot tables, the game would'a been better with only the witcher sets and some unique quest rewards.

You're supposed to deconstruct trash loot in witcher 3 for crafting materials

Because crafting is so good in Witcher 3. Totally not bloated shit.

Not really. Your defense of the shitty itemization was that you need to use it for crafting, and I answered you that crafting sucks Eothas' balls too.

 

[Malpercio]

I suspect that if you (accidentally?) beelined to Neketaka and cleaned the entire place out with non-combat quests, maybe robbed every single container and NPC possible (I don't know why, but we know people do this), and so on, then you might find the entire game a very quick and boring stomp.

Yeah, my suspicion is that people who absolutely hate everything about this game are doing exactly that. Go straight to Neketaka after the prologue, spend next 30 hours picking it clean and when you finally come out, you are guaranteed to crush every encounter with all the extra levels and gear and money.

Well, the game is open world and tells you to go to Nekataka. Can't exactly blame those people.

 

[Fairfax]

Anyone found the Codex backer weapon yet? Don't think I've seen it posted.

I believe it's this one.

Spoiler

Effort

This blade seems to appear and disappear from history every generation or so. Many great nobles, warriors, and adventurers have carried it and accomplished great and terrible things with its power. Few are mentioned by name, almost as if they were an afterthought to the weapon itself. No owner is known to have retained the sword for long, as they have all invariably met their fate in violent ways. It is rumored that the sword sings a strange song to the hearts of those who wield it, inspiring them to push themselves to the edge of their abilities and beyond, rarely to a good end. Thus it has changed hands many times.
Most recently it was recovered from the frozen corpse of a Vailian explorer in the White that Wends. He is said to have discovered the sword within the skeletal ribcage of a long-dead dragon along with the rusted remains of a suit of half-digested armor. Where or how the dragon's unfortunate victim acquired the weapon is unknown, though it can be reasoned he came about the blade in a similar macabre fashion.

Seems like a joke about decline, and it's also found during the "Bekarna's Folly" quest, which must be a reference to Roguey.

 

[Infinitron]

Anyone found the Codex backer weapon yet? Don't think I've seen it posted.

I believe it's this one.

Spoiler

Effort

This blade seems to appear and disappear from history every generation or so. Many great nobles, warriors, and adventurers have carried it and accomplished great and terrible things with its power. Few are mentioned by name, almost as if they were an afterthought to the weapon itself. No owner is known to have retained the sword for long, as they have all invariably met their fate in violent ways. It is rumored that the sword sings a strange song to the hearts of those who wield it, inspiring them to push themselves to the edge of their abilities and beyond, rarely to a good end. Thus it has changed hands many times.
Most recently it was recovered from the frozen corpse of a Vailian explorer in the White that Wends. He is said to have discovered the sword within the skeletal ribcage of a long-dead dragon along with the rusted remains of a suit of half-digested armor. Where or how the dragon's unfortunate victim acquired the weapon is unknown, though it can be reasoned he came about the blade in a similar macabre fashion.

Seems like a joke about decline, and it's also found during the "Bekarna's Folly" quest, which must be a reference to Roguey.

It's not. There is no Codex backer weapon. The Codex backer item has been posted by me several times, look harder.

 

[Fairfax]

Anyone found the Codex backer weapon yet? Don't think I've seen it posted.

I believe it's this one.

Spoiler

Effort

This blade seems to appear and disappear from history every generation or so. Many great nobles, warriors, and adventurers have carried it and accomplished great and terrible things with its power. Few are mentioned by name, almost as if they were an afterthought to the weapon itself. No owner is known to have retained the sword for long, as they have all invariably met their fate in violent ways. It is rumored that the sword sings a strange song to the hearts of those who wield it, inspiring them to push themselves to the edge of their abilities and beyond, rarely to a good end. Thus it has changed hands many times.
Most recently it was recovered from the frozen corpse of a Vailian explorer in the White that Wends. He is said to have discovered the sword within the skeletal ribcage of a long-dead dragon along with the rusted remains of a suit of half-digested armor. Where or how the dragon's unfortunate victim acquired the weapon is unknown, though it can be reasoned he came about the blade in a similar macabre fashion.

Seems like a joke about decline, and it's also found during the "Bekarna's Folly" quest, which must be a reference to Roguey.

It's not. There is no Codex backer weapon.

Then we got the Roguey reference for free.

 

[Haplo]

Okay, I haven't read the other 300 pages of this thread, but I want to ask the codex, is there a consensus on this game? Is it good? bad? Would I be blown away if I invested in it? Or is that a mistake?

Grant me thy wisdom codex!

Well, I've only played it for like 10 hours so far, so I'm still rather far from the obligatory 1337 hours before I can tell it's shit with authority, but... I'm liking it a lot so far.

Good combat (better then in PoE1 so far), great itemization, fantastic graphics, decent reactivity. Crazy number of quest resolution approaches!
Awesome main hub. Neketaka is definitely up there with my favorite cRPG towns (and is way more interesting and better designed then Athkatla). And has some cool factions.
Most importantly, the game pacing so far seems great this time! No Defiance Bay slowdown/boredom.

The classes are a bit... diluted and less defined with the introduction of multi-classing. Some systems are dumbed down (health, resting). But exploring the various broken multi-classing combos is fun!
Also side content seems a bit... small. But there seems to be a lot of it and the main areas seem okay and that's way more important!

 

[SymbolicFrank]

Yes you can,it is pretty much pointless achievement.

Pillars of Eternity: Deadfire, ladies and gentlemen.

I don't even know if it's hilarious, sad or both.

"You should never penalize the player for making choices."

 

[Mr. Hiver]

On a separate note: my main gripe about the companions is how awful their stats/classes are in most of the cases. I don't know why they don't let us distribute their attributes and pick their classes/subclasses, IMO DoS2 did this one thing really well. I want to play with full-fledged characters integrated into the story but I also want to have a well-functioning party and I couldn't get both of these in one playthrough which is a shame.

You can retrain/respec all companions for a bit of money in any tavern.

Not sure about attributes but you can change their class at the least.

 

[Tigranes]

Uh, their class?