Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Sensuki]

Yeah even if I don't agree with a lot of your mechanical perspectives Zed you should post your impressions (particularly the art stuff and bugs) over on the OE forums.

 

[MicoSelva]

Someone gave me their extra copy of their BETA! Wooo now I can give constructive criticism like sensuki and get hired by Obsidian.

Except I would never leave my day job.

I would, so you can give the key to me. Please?

Except I do not even have the time to play the beta now, so maybe not such a great idea.

 

[Spockrock]

Is it just me, or does this whole area seem really inconsistent with how the rest of the game looks? They were likely still experimenting since I think it was said this was of the first area's they made as part of the vertical slice/prototype.

it's one of the earliest dungeons made for the game, IIRC.

 

[Infinitron]

Using companion to talk shows up as PC talking in dialogue.

BTW this is intentional. That is, your companion isn't supposed to be able to initiate dialogue. What it should do though is make the main character run up to the NPC and talk instead of the companion, like in PS:T.

 

[Duraframe300]

Brofisting Zed for effort, even if I do not agree with some of his points.

Theres no reason not to brofist him. After all the more opinions there are the better. At the very least they provide informative discussion.

This beta is the last opportunity to make bigger changes after all. The dev team/Sawyer will be able to figure out themselves what has merit and what not.

 

[Zed]

Yeah even if I don't agree with a lot of your mechanical perspectives Zed you should post your impressions (particularly the art stuff and bugs) over on the OE forums.

Brofisting Zed for effort, even if I do not agree with some of his points.

nah. they will read the codex if they want codex impressions.

out of curiosity, what don't you agree with?

Using companion to talk shows up as PC talking in dialogue.

BTW this is intentional. That is, your companion isn't supposed to be able to initiate dialogue. What it should do though is make the main character run up to the NPC and talk instead of the companion, like in PS:T.

ah. well yes, then the bug is that the follower walks up to the NPC to talk.

BTW this is a pretty bad IMO. since combat is often initiated from dialogue, your PC will always be in the forefront when those encounters start.

 

[Hormalakh]

Yaeh I actually like that it's not always the MC that runs up to start convos. It expands my options (my MC can be a glass cannon) when playing the game.

Maybe there's a way of informing the player that the MC isn't talking: "Your party member relays the conversation to you..."

 

[Sensuki]

out of curiosity, what don't you agree with?

XP for kills - don't have anything against XP for kills overall, but the design in PE is being done without it and that's something I accepted a long time ago
Selection circles - I think they're too thick and should be exactly the same as the BG/IWD ones
Stamina/Health - System is fine, but the Stamina/Health ratio is wrong, I think they should reduce the amount of health damage so that the adventuring day is longer
Skills - Don't really agree here, the skills in this game are pretty thin overall, and the combat bonuses from Lore and Athletics are shit, but whatevs. The funny thing is if you didn't get to choose skills at level up you'd have nothing to choose
Talents will become better as they add more, there's currently like literally the barebone minimum, they will be added in based on backer feedback and play testing
Don't really care about the weapon groups as there's no proficiency
I don't think there's anything wrong with percentile bonuses. There is however something wrong with the entire attribute skill point selection. Currently race and culture bonuses are completely meaningless. Perception and Resolve are shitty as I predicted, too.
I'm also not phased about their "Fine" and all that stuff, we haven't even seen different metal types, unique items and all that shit yet

 

[MicoSelva]

out of curiosity, what don't you agree with?

These three, basically (different preferences):

Weapon Focuses feel too broad. I much prefer the IE game way of specializing, in combination with racial and class limitations.

Remove skill points and make class, race and background define them. Background and race feels completely meaningless (largely because attributes feel meaningless).

Percentage bonuses from attributes are SUPER boring. Attributes should be super-defining of a character, and higher values should give specialized bonuses. There should be a bigger leap between 18 and 19, than between 11 and 12. Really, D&D does this much better.

1. I prefer broad categories with smaller bonuses (personally I would love a system that allows either broad specialization with smaller bonuses, or narrow with larger bonuses, but whatever).
2. I prefer to be able to manually distribute my skill point, but I do agree character background/class/race should affect them too.
3. IMO ideally main atributes should be the most defining aspect of a character (mechanics-wise) and affect many secondary stats, but since that is some unattainable Holy Grail for some reason, linear bonus progression is just fine.

 

[One-and-a-half-Ivan]

If anyone has a spare key I'd appreciate it.

 

[Zed]

out of curiosity, what don't you agree with?

These three, basically (different preferences):

Weapon Focuses feel too broad. I much prefer the IE game way of specializing, in combination with racial and class limitations.

Remove skill points and make class, race and background define them. Background and race feels completely meaningless (largely because attributes feel meaningless).

Percentage bonuses from attributes are SUPER boring. Attributes should be super-defining of a character, and higher values should give specialized bonuses. There should be a bigger leap between 18 and 19, than between 11 and 12. Really, D&D does this much better.

1. I prefer broad categories with smaller bonuses (personally I would love a system that allows either broad specialization with smaller bonuses, or narrow with larger bonuses, but whatever).
2. I prefer to be able to manually distribute my skill point, but I do agree character background/class/race should affect them too.
3. IMO ideally main atributes should be the most defining aspect of a character (mechanics-wise) and affect many secondary stats, but since that is some unattainable Holy Grail for some reason, linear bonus progression is just fine.

1. I would be more receptive of the "weapon specialization packs" if they would be more visible as weapon specs on the character sheet, or maybe inventory sheet. But in general, this is not too big of a deal for me.

2. This would be a compromise I would accept. I still would like to see some re-naming and tuning of skills tho.
EDIT: Traits would be cool too

3. I guess we are on the same page here then, except I don't really think the linear progression is fine.

 

[Whisky]

The Beta is out, I'm at a hostel with good wifi, and my back is really sore.

Ain't that a coincidence.

 

[Sensuki]

3. I guess we are on the same page here then, except I don't really think the linear progression is fine.

Linear progession of attribute bonuses?

If they're going to use point buy, perhaps a weighted system would actually be better to make the race and cultural bonuses valuable.

On top of that they could stagger the bonuses exponentially or something, but I don't know if that would be balanced, and maybe that would create real shitty attribute point combos - which is against the design goals

 

[Decado]

First impression=not good because it's the kind of system I just can't seem to like. PoE has a very passive, percentage based stat and skill system. At least Larian did something different with the cool environment/spell interactions. In this game,however, the majority of skills are passive, and stats just grant a percentage boost. Mechanics-wise, you'll be doing the same thing at level 20, that you were doing at level 5, just with a higher probability of succeeding. I need more active feats. I need more to do in combat than just watch numbers and probabilities interact.

What you're describing is essentially the essence of the IE games. Why is it a problem?

 

[Infinitron]

The relative unimportance of the main attributes is a core feature of PoE's system. That's probably not going to change.

The idea is that the classes themselves should be distinct enough, with the attributes only providing "finishing touches" or adjustments on top of their intrinsic capabilities. No matter what attributes he has, a wizard will still do lots of damage and a fighter will still be a pretty good tank. Of course, at the highest level of competition - the toughest battles against the toughest enemies - your attributes might mean the difference between success and failure.

So, personally, I would be checking if the classes do in fact feel sufficiently distinct. Perhaps this is something Obsidian need to emphasize more.

 

[MicoSelva]

3. I guess we are on the same page here then, except I don't really think the linear progression is fine.

Linear progession of attribute bonuses?

If they're going to use point buy, perhaps a weighted system would actually be better to make the race and cultural bonuses valuable.

On top of that they could stagger the bonuses exponentially or something, but I don't know if that would be balanced, and maybe that would create real shitty attribute point combos - which is against the design goals

Since attributes are obviously not as balanced as they were hyped to be, further imbalancing them is probably out of the question.

For example, your min-maxed build of which you posted a screenshot earlier is still relatively mild, because due to linear progression, main attributes just do not matter that much. It would get much more extreme, if higher attribute levels gave more bang per point than lower ones.

 

[Zetor]

Currently waiting for first update with Auto Attack fix before playing again.

Same. I don't mind having to push more buttons (especially since I just replayed BG1/2 and most fights were resolved through select all -> attack -> watch the AI mop up), but the current state of combat is way past the line of "tedious busywork" for me.

 

[Sensuki]

Of the classes I've played, I'd say the Fighter is the worst class - but I have not made my own Fighter yet.

They're supposed to be a fortress in combat right?

There also may be something wrong with Deflection balancing. On every character I've seen, their deflection has been terrible compared to their other defenses. The Fighter is one of those classes that is supposed to have good deflection, but if deflection is naturally low then that kind of makes that a shitty reliance.

 

[DosBuster]

Is it just me or does no one else have a clue wtf is going on in combat? It's just a jumbled mess to me

 

[Decado]

Is that Disneyland in the background?

Jesus Christ, are you american by any chance? /facepalm

European successfully trolled.

 

[Haba]

O.k., installed the backer beta...

Black screen of several minutes...

Character creation, O.K.

Level up character. Worst banal shit boring I've had for years (fighter)

Tried combat... Absolutely and utterly horrible cluster fuck. Worse than IE by miles.

LOL Roguey, this the best your god can do?

Seriously unimpressed. Maybe with a ton of polish it will be better, but I hold very little hope for the combat.

 

[DosBuster]

It's butthurt time!

 

[Athelas]

If you didn't like IE combat, you're not going to like this. Not exactly rocket science.

 

[Raghar]

O.k., installed the backer beta...

Black screen of several minutes...

Character creation, O.K.

Level up character. Worst banal shit boring I've had for years (fighter)

Tried combat... Absolutely and utterly horrible cluster fuck. Worse than IE by miles.

LOL Roguey, this the best your god can do?

Seriously unimpressed. Maybe with a ton of polish it will be better, but I hold very little hope for the combat.

You receiving what you paid for. They were uterly scared to do anything extra, because people paid for what they think is this.

 

[Tigranes]

out of curiosity, what don't you agree with?

XP for kills - don't have anything against XP for kills overall, but the design in PE is being done without it and that's something I accepted a long time ago
Selection circles - I think they're too thick and should be exactly the same as the BG/IWD ones
Stamina/Health - System is fine, but the Stamina/Health ratio is wrong, I think they should reduce the amount of health damage so that the adventuring day is longer
Skills - Don't really agree here, the skills in this game are pretty thin overall, and the combat bonuses from Lore and Athletics are shit, but whatevs. The funny thing is if you didn't get to choose skills at level up you'd have nothing to choose
Talents will become better as they add more, there's currently like literally the barebone minimum, they will be added in based on backer feedback and play testing
Don't really care about the weapon groups as there's no proficiency
I don't think there's anything wrong with percentile bonuses. There is however something wrong with the entire attribute skill point selection. Currently race and culture bonuses are completely meaningless. Perception and Resolve are shitty as I predicted, too.
I'm also not phased about their "Fine" and all that stuff, we haven't even seen different metal types, unique items and all that shit yet

Basically this.
-I also like XP for kills, but I don't see what giving tiny amounts would do except make you feel better. They should overhaul the XP system or not bother, and in terms of balance over the course of th game, I've seen too little of it to really tell how it pans out.
-Stamina/Health is finally a mechanic that is new, interesting, and has big repercussions for the rest of the gameplay, and you want to roll it back to Same As Every Other Game? It does need some fine-tuning, including better feedback on what damages my health and stamina and so forth, but i's a great idea.
-They already said there's like almost no talents implemented, so irrelevant to discuss

Zed does make good points, including:
-I like how 'active' the combat is but there's a difference between that and it being a clusterfuck, and other than shit that is due to betaness, there's far too many abilities and effects that end up doing little damage everywhere. Same deal with items, though I haven't seen enough items to see how that actually pans out yet.
-Tiny ass inventories replace IE inventory tetris with "Send every shit to stash" tetris. Also should be a quick way to send things to stash.