Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Sensuki]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooldown

See number three where it talks about Street Fighter and animation frames and recovery - that's what Pillars of Eternity has

 

[dukeofwhales]

There is a cooldown because it is a cooldown on all non-movement actions. A cooldown by nature is something that makes you wait to use it again.

Oh, so you can still move around but you can't make another attack/use another ability in that time? I can see that as being a cooldown (I haven't played the beta that much, found it too frustrating for the moment).

 

[Bubbles]

There is a cooldown because it is a cooldown on all non-movement actions. A cooldown by nature is something that makes you wait to use it again.

Oh, so you can still move around but you can't make another attack/use another ability in that time? I can see that as being a cooldown (I haven't played the beta that much, found it too frustrating for the moment).

You do something, the animation finishes, and then the game forces you to do nothing for a few seconds. Some call that a cooldown.

 

[tuluse]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooldown

See number three where it talks about Street Fighter and animation frames and recovery - that's what Pillars of Eternity has

Which means cooldown now means time an attack takes, which makes it useless as Blaine said.

 

[tuluse]

You do something, the animation finishes, and then the game forces you to do nothing for a few seconds. Some call that a cooldown.

So if the animation was longer it's not a cooldown?

 

[Sensuki]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooldown

See number three where it talks about Street Fighter and animation frames and recovery - that's what Pillars of Eternity has

Which means cooldown now means time an attack takes, which makes it useless as Blaine said.

No. The animation is split into two parts - animation and recovery (cooldown). The animation can be cancelled, and immediately after the animation ends, you can move.

Currently movement actually pauses recovery time, but I think that will be being removed for melee units in the game because it makes the game feel shitty, Josh admitted it was a design decision based from a turn-based perspective combined with fear of kiting archers.

 

[Blaine]

See number three where it talks about Street Fighter and animation frames and recovery - that's what Pillars of Eternity has

Each move has a certain amount of frames in which it is considered to be "recovering" before another move can be executed, which is similar to cooldowns in concept. However, unlike the concept of the cooldown, where a move, spell or ability is considered to be cooling down before it can be used again but control over one's character/unit is still available, the recovery frames of a move in a fighting game do not allow the player to perform any other attacks or movement until the move has fully recovered.

I play fighting games and am familiar with this sort of thing. You can call that post-action recovery period whatever you like really, but realistically an entirely separate term (recovery time suffices) would be most appropriate, since there are distinct differences.

Use time, brief post-ability recovery time during which you can't move/act (say, "getting your balance back" after swinging a greatsword)... each of these concepts has an identity separate from the standard definition of a cooldown timer.

 

[Sensuki]

Why? It's a global non-movement action cooldown. That specific wiki article refers to single ability cooldowns. Even in MOBAs where abilities have cooldowns, technically so do attacks, although that operates on a different timer which attack speed can modify. ARPGs however do not, and an attack animation plays immediately after the previous one finishes.

 

[tuluse]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooldown

See number three where it talks about Street Fighter and animation frames and recovery - that's what Pillars of Eternity has

Which means cooldown now means time an attack takes, which makes it useless as Blaine said.

No. The animation is split into two parts - animation and recovery (cooldown). The animation can be cancelled, and immediately after the animation ends, you can move.

Currently movement actually pauses recovery time, but I think that will be being removed for melee units in the game because it makes the game feel shitty, Josh admitted it was a design decision based from a turn-based perspective combined with fear of kiting archers.

Ok, literally every real time game in existence has cool downs then.

In a shooter, once you've shot a gun, the time before the next bullet can be shot is a cooldown.

So PoE has cooldowns like every single other real time game in existence and it's a meaningless term.

 

[Athelas]

Can we please go back to talking about how shitty this game is?

 

[Nihiliste]

This is such a semantic discussion. I personally agree with Blaine and co. in this case, its fundamentally a different issue to have a delay representing the time it takes to perform and action vs having a cooldown timer which is like an superficial layer overlying the game that dictates you can't use one particular action. But if you want to call what PoE does a cooldown because you can still move, sure why not? You already know what everyone is getting at though - what's the point in arguing over the language?

 

[Onholyservicebound]

Cooldowns

Jesus fucking christ

 

[Darth Roxor]

http://guildwiki.gamepedia.com/Cooldown
http://guildwiki.gamepedia.com/Aftercast_delay

there, two different things

jesus, why am i taking part in this autism-fest

 

[covr]

STFU already you cooldownfags. There is badly designed game to talk about.

 

[Ulminati]

Change title to "Fun Eternally Ended" please. Thanks!

Why not change it to BUTTHURT RELEASE THREAD?

 

[Cyberarmy]

Change title to "Fun Eternally Ended" please. Thanks!

Why not change it to BUTTHURT RELEASE THREAD?

Nah, we used that on Wasteland 2 beta release thread.

 

[Invictus]

Gee, sorry about the shitstorm about cooldowns...but I used the term Sawyer and his minions used themselves on one of the updates when describing abilities who had to wait awhile to use again after using it, and some other special abilities you could use only after resting
Ah who am I to doubt the visión of the finest game designer evah?

 

[Ziem]

Are my ranged dudes (the majority of the team) supposed to run around nekkid throughout the entire game? Really?

 

[RK47]

Are my ranged dudes (the majority of the team) supposed to run around nekkid throughout the entire game? Really?

Distance is your armor.

 

[serch]

There is a cooldown because it is a cooldown on all non-movement actions. A cooldown by nature is something that makes you wait to use it again.

like penis refractory period?

 

[Bubbles]

Are my ranged dudes (the majority of the team) supposed to run around nekkid throughout the entire game? Really?

Or you could put on heavy armor, cast a spell for 3 seconds and then stand around for 6 seconds doing nothing.

 

[Sensuki]

I have my first DPS graph for my attribute system from my associate Matt516 (making him do the hard work for me ) and once I have the others I will start putting my ideas together in a thread and make a video.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Are my ranged dudes (the majority of the team) supposed to run around nekkid throughout the entire game? Really?

Of course, it's only the first of many degenerate things PoE's gonna encourage you to do.

 

[FuriousGamer87]

Are my ranged dudes (the majority of the team) supposed to run around nekkid throughout the entire game? Really?

Of course, it's only the first of many degenerate things PoE's gonna encourage you to do.

Probably because naked people require more representation in video games.
They are getting oppressed by too many half-naked and fully clothed cis scums.

 

[Blaine]

Pick any two of these for ranged-focus archetypes:

1. as survivable as tissue paper
2. near-immobile when on the attack to curtail kiting
3. mediocre at dealing damage

All three at once are will render ranged archetypes unplayable. A glass cannon has 1 and 2 but would deal fantastic burst damage, nice and tactical too since you'd need to make sure you're positioned properly and ready to move after. A "strafer" would have 1 and 3, can move but damage isn't great since total avoidance is (in theory) still superior to being on the frontlines in heavy armor/with protective buffs. A "skirmisher" would do mediocre damage and have to dig in to go on the attack, but is well-protected. Advantage over melee is that they start dealing damage a round or two before the enemy reaches the frontlines.

Of course, this is a gross oversimplification in many ways, since protection/damage/mobility aren't boolean values, and special abilities/utility must also be taken into account. We do know however that Sawyer has already chosen mediocre ranged damage, and from what people have been saying ITT, I'm also inclined to believe they're going with tissue paper survivability.

So, I'm not sure how he plans to curtail kiting exactly.