Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Sensuki]

Right that just seems foolish to me (and certainly not optimal), why would I move the fighter/heavily engaged char when I could use some one better suited to the task of killing the problem?

Because it was a fucking made up example (note the use of eg.). If you want a real example, feel free to look up my IWD Let's Play.

 

[J_C]

I miss your videos about the backer builds Sensuki , have you stopped making them forever?

 

[aeonsim]

Right that just seems foolish to me (and certainly not optimal), why would I move the fighter/heavily engaged char when I could use some one better suited to the task of killing the problem?

Because it was a fucking made up example (note the use of eg.). If you want a real example, feel free to look up my IWD Let's Play.

Sure it's a made a up example but it still tells us something about your play style, which makes some sense in IE games because you were punished if you tried several of the alternative options.

It seems to me at least part of peoples dislike of engagement is because IE games programmed them to play a certain way (if your style of play resulted in circumstances with similarities to the hypothetical case above). People ran because there was no penalty for doing so while there are penalties against the other options:
A) Switch your fighters/melee to ranged weapons and kill the problem without moving, result -8 to ranged hit, +4 to enemy melee accuracy and depending on the version +4 to damage == Death!
B) Get one of your spell casters to do something == hit to interrupt spell, spell lost.

The other alternative was to play a tactically different manner which didn't need any one running around because your'd provided backup via some other means, but some people don't like playing that way.

I personally don't mind engagement, but I don't love it either. At the moment I find the most annoying thing in PoE is the balance rather than the mechanisms and playing through the backer beta I had plenty of fun with the combat (except for the odd 1 hit kill or one hit multi-kill from Adra beetles on PoD). And the 'fun' level was comparable to my most recent BG, BG2 and IWD play through.
So I see no reason to remove engagement from the game to make it 'better', however if you can't stand it I'm happy you've found a way to remove/disable it. For those who find engagement makes combat not fun well I find that a little odd, however happily for you Sensuki has a way to fix that, enjoy! And for those who enjoy engagement awesome I can see why you do and I'm happy enough to see it in the game.

Now can we move the attention to the things that really need fixing, Balance, buggy path finding (though it's not terrible now, it's adequate rather than good) and better/smarter enemy ability/spell use and targeting? Because at the moment the game is to easy except for the Adra beetles and Cean Gŵla + Specter pack.

 

[Ninjerk]

You know what the debate around engagement mechanics reminds me of? The SC2 drone rush, and the existential despair that its "success" brought upon its creator.
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/271453-worker-rush-descent-to-bronze

It must have been a frustrating day in the platinum league. Perhaps I just didn't want to play another TvT. Or maybe I had to pee. I don't really recall. Whatever the reason, my transformation from casual Starcraft player to worker rusher was abrupt.

That fateful match I was pitted against Boxxybabee on the Shattered Temple. At 22 seconds into the game I got the idea.

Down the rabbit hole, if you dare...

 

[Shevek]

But disengagement and AoOs are the same thing



Yeah, they are.



This was suggested many times Roguey. Saying those things about AoOs and implementing a disengagement mechancic that is identical makes no sense.

AoOs and Engagement are fairly different. One threatens an area and another mostly threatens single opponents.

 

[Zed]

Do they still have a specific day of the week for KS updates?
Could it coincide with a backer beta update?

 

[hemtae]

Well the new Beta update should be up within an hour.

 

[Sensuki]

Now can we move the attention to the things that really need fixing, Balance, buggy path finding (though it's not terrible now, it's adequate rather than good) and better/smarter enemy ability/spell use and targeting? Because at the moment the game is to easy except for the Adra beetles and Cean Gŵla + Specter pack.

The topic of this thread seems to flow naturally. I was talking about pathfinding in one of my most recent posts which DOES need fixing.

And yeah as hemtae said, apparently the new build is going up today. I am reddy to go.

I miss your videos about the backer builds Sensuki , have you stopped making them forever?

Yeah I don't do "Version reviews" anymore. I report all of my issues directly into the bug forums and that way they actually get noticed. This build is the last one before release, so it will be all about bug fixing and balance.

 

[Sensuki]

Downloading now

 

[Grotesque]

Downloading now

make a twitch channel or something so we can all marvel at you being butthurt live!

 

[Shevek]

Ooh, interrupt looks like a flat bonus... Skaen Priest with two stilettos it is!
*edit: Never mind, its still percent. Just didnt show the % sign in the character creation screen for me. I will still try it and see how it goes.

 

[hemtae]

1.3 GB

Changelog: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70228-backer-beta-build-435-is-live/

 

[Sensuki]

Ooh, interrupt looks like a flat bonus... Skaen Priest with two stilettos it is!
*edit: Never mind, its still percent. Just didnt show the % sign in the character creation screen for me. I will still try it and see how it goes.

I think it's bugged or they changed it to an integer value / are messing around with it. BB Rogue has like 110 Interrupt and interrupts every hit

 

[Grotesque]

This beta needs some ambient sounds badly in village, because besides the occasional chicken, pig and anvil sounds, the rest if filled with space grade silence.

Solid UI looks nice

 

[Sensuki]

Traps are pretty much an instant KO if you don't detect them now. I just went into Hendyna's House and got 3 person KO'd by a Noxious Burst trap, 3 grazes for ~115 damage each.

I'd say that's a bit over the top.

 

[hemtae]

We might get a new beta update only because they possible uploaded the wrong one. Or we won't because they didn't bother changing the version number on start screen.

 

[Sensuki]

Kaz on the Solid UI

Thanks. Not completely happy with the HUD yet, and I imagine the blandness will be the primary criticism for this build since it's pretty much just a slab of wood right now. But I do think it cuts down on the noise and lets you focus on the functional parts of the UI, such as icons. Also the neutral colors play better with the background regardless of the colors of the environment. It's tricky business adding stuff down there since you want to stay out of the players way and let the environment take the spot light, but doing so without sacrificing interest or functionality.

As for the segmented background bit, the block is composed up of 3 textures. One for the gradient + bevel, one for the wood texture which gets multiplied on top and one for the faint carving detail that runs horizontally. The first gets "sliced" up by Unity which allows us to scale it without resolution concerns, and the later 2 are tileable. It's built in a very modular way so I don't think modders will have a hard time editing it.

 

[One-and-a-half-Ivan]

Looks nice IMO.

 

[Jezal_k23]

Yeah, looks fine to me.

 

[dukeofwhales]

I assume that the combat log is not resizable with solid UI on? I'd prefer to have it slightly larger than that if possible (haven't got the beta installed at the moment).

 

[Sensuki]

No it's resizable, works the same as before.

 

[Grunker]

I really wish I could move those portraits to a BG-style rigt of the screen, but eh, can't win 'em all. Combat log should be front and center.

 

[Surf Solar]

What the fuck, they won't give us an UI that works like a border around the game scenes like BG1/2 IWD did and instead give this IWD2 shit?

Why even bother when the only thing you can do is something that even me as a fucking amateur came up and re-arranged dozens of times without problems for my game?

I thought this is supposed to be spiritual successor to BG, not IWD2?

 

[dukeofwhales]

What the fuck, they won't give us an UI that works like a border around the game scenes like BG1/2 IWD did and instead give this IWD2 shit?

I do recall JES saying he preferred the Torment/IWD2-style UI over the BG/BG2/IWD-style (Roguey?). I don't mind, though I do find it a bit silly that abilities pop up over the top of the solid UI with a set of hovering buttons.

 

[Surf Solar]

Bleh. May sound ridicoulous for some, but this is a dealbreaker for me. Soon as the game comes out I'll be trying to do a solid border around the screen classic UI mod. The IWD2 one looked like shit.