Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Shevek]

The omen of decline... Many moons ago, RTwP was considered the omen of decline around here. Now we quibble over... area looting? 3m area looting no less. I love all the effort you have put into the game Bester but I think you might be reaching a bit there. This is a small convenience tweak. Its not like they making the game a 3rd person action platformer.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

Convenience tweak for some, inconvenience tweak for others. They're causing butthurt in half of their audience for no reason, instead of just making it optional, it only takes a few minutes ffs. I'll try to make a mod to decrease the range, so it only triggers when two lootbags are significantly overlapping.

 

[Deakul]

Convenience tweak for some, inconvenience tweak for others. They're causing butthurt in half of their audience for no reason, instead of just making it optional, it only takes a few minutes ffs. I'll try to make a mod to decrease the range, so it only triggers when two lootbags are significantly overlapping.

You're literally retarded.

 

[Shevek]

I can respect the notion of making it optional. You can even turn it off in the EE games.

 

[coffeetable]

They're causing butthurt in half of their audience for no reason,

there's a definition of "half" i hadn't heard before

 

[Grunker]

Yeah I'm gonna stick to "not nearly half of their audience are turned off by the notion of being spared a few clicks". Seriously Bester, I appreciate what you and Sensuki are doing, but sometimes you get a little caught up in your own perspective...

 

[AwesomeButton]

Collision, shmollision. At least we won't have to wait for PoE 2 to turn collision for friendlies off. That's what they did in BGII after in BG party members were "taking the long way" around each other.

Thank you Bester. Loot area is bullshit plain and simple, and I'm thankful it will get modded out.

 

[Roguey]

Clipping>person bumps into another and OH NO LOOKS LIKE I HAVE TO GO IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT DIRECTION TO GET TO WHERE I'M WAIT WHERE WAS I GOING

Just have to do what Offspring says and keep 'em separated when combat starts.

I look forward to completing PoE on hard using buffs and debuffs.

 

[Sensuki]

Noclip is fucking retarded, and always will be - in pretty much any game.

Being a pessimist, I wouldn't be surprised if their solution to my bug is to check to see whether party members are overlapping and then teleport them around eachother at the start of combat lmao - I sure hope not though.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

They should just somersault over each other. That would look radical as hell.

 

[Roguey]

Noclip is fucking retarded, and always will be - in pretty much any game.

I wish noclip existed in the IE games, especially BG, which has the worst pathfinding of them all.

Being a pessimist, I wouldn't be surprised if their solution to my bug is to check to see whether party members are overlapping and then teleport them around eachother at the start of combat lmao - I sure hope not though.

Heh, just like Dark Sun.

 

[Sensuki]

Pillars of Eternity's in combat pathfinding has always been worse than BG's with max search nodes.

 

[Roguey]

Yeah I don't think I've ever had major complaints with IE combat pathfinding with the exceptions of levels with walking spaces that are too damn narrow. It's the "look I just want to click on this spot right here and have everyone go it without any single character having problems" that everyone hates.

 

[Sensuki]

Yeah PE unfortunately has worse problems than that

 

[Sensuki]

Karkarov's custom UIs are coming along well

Example screenshot

Spoiler

Default PE layout

Spoiler

 

[Zed]

The pattern repeats once in the text box BG.
Looks good.

 

[ushas]

Noclip is fucking retarded, and always will be - in pretty much any game.

Being a pessimist, I wouldn't be surprised if their solution to my bug is to check to see whether party members are overlapping and then teleport them around eachother at the start of combat lmao - I sure hope not though.

Looking forward to videos of new exploits.

Isn't the easiest thing right now to do to just decrease the degree of clipping or at least it's rate, eg. to make some compromise between issues?

To balance I will try to optimistically hope for more substantial improvements of AI and pathfinding further with the expansion, or so...

 

[aeonsim]

With regards to that clipping exploit, please please try it against do real enemies :D the druids, Adra beatles, cultists, bandit party it or any thing else with AoE! It looks like a lovely way to get a complete party wipe against any thing with an AoE attack. A Ciphers mental binding would lock down your entire party if you tried to do that against them.

If it's a true exploit you should be able to pull it off against most or all of the enemies in the beta not just a room full of tavern patrons...

So as far as exploits go I consider it pretty weak.

With regards to a 3m AoE looting sounds pretty good to me the less clicking the better and I certainly remember some times in the IE games when I'd need to spend 5 mins trying to click on a couple of bodies because I'd managed to stack them 5 deep in one spot.

 

[Sensuki]

So you're saying it should stay in the game?



I don't want retarded unit clipping in my Infinity Engine style RPG thankyou very much.

BTW what I did just there is not dissimilar to the Engagement videos I previously did, I don't recall you ever posting about those though so I can't remember what you said. Pretty much everyone agreed that that exploit should have been removed - how is this any different.

 

[aeonsim]

I'm saying it makes little difference, it's not a true exploit. It is a short cut or simplification that doesn't directly effect combat except in artificial cases and would be a sure fire way to have a party wipe on the higher difficulties against many enemies.

As such while atheistically I would like to see it removed in the long term for the sort term is rather see them fixing game breaking bugs, and balance the classes and abilities. For the expansion pack i'd like to see them redo the entire pathing system and tweak the engagement system among other things.

While I'm happy to see you highlight things like this it'd be better if you also showed what happens when you try this in a real fight or mention that while it's an ugly hack it has little effect on the real combat except as a good way for a party wipe. Otherwise you end up with an echo chamber effect where people who don't understand how little real impact this will have making a shit load of noise about how the game is broken because of this video and how the game must be crap as a result...

 

[aeonsim]

BTW what I did just there is not dissimilar to the Engagement videos I previously did, I don't recall you ever posting about those though so I can't remember what you said. Pretty much everyone agreed that that exploit should have been removed - how is this any different.

The difference between this and your earlier engagement videos was you showed how that could be fairly easily used against real enemies (not just the tavern patrons) and it was clearly an exploit that could be widely used to break combat. I don't see that as a possibility for this one except maybe on easy.


As for the IE dif augment on my list of features critical to an IE successor out of combat clipping does not even register. Hell engagement is higher on that list and I'm mostly pro engagement in the first place.

 

[Sensuki]

While I'm happy to see you highlight things like this it'd be better if you also showed what happens when you try this in a real fight or mention that while it's an ugly hack it has little effect on the real combat except as a good way for a party wipe. Otherwise you end up with an echo chamber effect where people who don't understand how little real impact this will have making a shit load of noise about how the game is broken because of this video and how the game must be crap as a result...

I have not made my official bug report on the topic yet. I have been mostly going through the minor issues first as they don't take long to document, record and upload. A larger bug report can take several hours of testing. I found around about 50 bugs/issues yesterday alone and I'm slowly working through them. I come across more as I go, and once I've worked through the list most of the way through I'll start actively looking for them again.

There's several larger reports I'll have to do - another test of pathing, AI/Targeting and now this clipping stuff, a character art pass for Dimitri.

 

[aeonsim]

Yeah I understand that (I'm well aware of the number of bugs you find) and i checked to see if you had posted a bug on this and was surprised to see you hadn't. It's just in surprised you posted that initial video with such an artfical test case the result of which appears to have caused a bit of a stir among some people, who fail to realize that until this can replicated in a real fight ( if it can be replicated which I have some doubt's about against anything with AoE) it's really just a polish or visual issue rather than a critical flaw with game play.

Just for shits i'd almost like to see them leave it in and add a function that instagibs all characters doing so when combat starts with some sort of snarky message in the log :D. Something like "attempted metagamer exploit detected, game reality correction applied...".

As as long as you use the formations and move normally it's unlikely this will happen by chance or have much effect.

 

[Sensuki]

I briefly tested it before (cooking dinner now) and I was able to get 5 disengagement attacks with it against Medreth's group, but if I learn the correct overlapping of circles I could potentially get quite a few more.

 

[Seari]

Healing spells don't heal for much at all atm, you can use a healing potion to fully heal yourself, or cast a healing spell that heals fucking nothing.

Since there are healing pots in the game, how about an option in the IE mod to remove resting suppiles+enndurance?