Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[leferd]

Brandon Adler confirms that keys will be released today and the game will unlock Thursday at 0900 PDT.

 

[Jarpie]

Brandon Adler confirms that keys will be released today and the game will unlock Thursday at 0900 PDT.

That's 6pm in here, it should unlock 9am my local time.

 

[Diablo169]

It's 2015 and games are distributed digitally now. why the fuck do we still have these ridiculous release times. Really fucks over anywhere that isn't America.

 

[Merlkir]

I'm playing on HARD MODE right now, and while I've wiped a few times, the engagement system is pretty clear who is engaging who. The lines are drawn right there in game. The thing I keep forgetting to do is to slow it down to make it more manageable.

Hard is definitely more fun for me than normal... and it's kind of funny too.

The bear cave, early in the game that you investigate...

Spoiler

In hard Mode has two bears in it.

Says you're offline. (at least on my end)

 

[polo]

Does it drive anybody else crazy that Calisca's portrait is a 90° profile while every other portrait ever is 3/4 view or straight on? I wonder if we'll be able to easily add custom portraits for NPCs.

Yes.

 

[Zed]

Does it drive anybody else crazy that Calisca's portrait is a 90° profile while every other portrait ever is 3/4 view or straight on? I wonder if we'll be able to easily add custom portraits for NPCs.

yeah I complained about that particular female portrait. it's still in? where the fuck is quality control?!?!?!?!?!+ ABSURDIAN!!!!!

 

[Space Satan]

wtf am I reading?

 

[Weirdstuffinspace]

Engagement gives the player added layers to think about in party/character creation and in the strategic and tactical choices involved with skill use.

And the removal of engagement removes added layers of strategic and tactical choices ? 2 or 1 tank and 4/5 support/long range seems the only logical party composition?

Explain pros of this system vs not having engagement. How does it make the game better ?

 

[sser]

Does anyone know the difficulty settings for this game?

 

[Shevek]

Weirdstuffinspace

How does the removal of engagement increase party composition options? Ive already explained why I like the system. Do you want charts or something?

Also, a front line of melee was fairly standard in IE as well.

 

[Bubbles]

Does anyone know the difficulty settings for this game?

Extremely Easy, Easy, Normal, Hard.

 

[Bleed the Man]

wtf am I reading?

That's a user name strangely similar to the one I normally use. He even mentions the codex WTF

 

[Seari]

I'm playing on HARD MODE right now, and while I've wiped a few times, the engagement system is pretty clear who is engaging who. The lines are drawn right there in game. The thing I keep forgetting to do is to slow it down to make it more manageable.

Hard is definitely more fun for me than normal... and it's kind of funny too.

The bear cave, early in the game that you investigate...

Spoiler

In hard Mode has two bears in it.

I refuse to acknowledge the existence of slow mode. Why the hell is this even in the game FFS

 

[J_C]

It's 2015 and games are distributed digitally now. why the fuck do we still have these ridiculous release times. Really fucks over anywhere that isn't America.

LOL, what are you talking about? The game will be released at the same time all over the world. But because of timezones, it will be a different time of day for everybody.

 

[polo]

Bitching about game being released at 6pm instead or 9am for your country... Come on, codex is full of 15yolders.

 

[Fry]

Brandon Adler confirms that keys will be released today and the game will unlock Thursday at 0900 PDT.

Link to post?

 

[hiver]

If the damage is manageable and there are many added abilities to break it... what fucking purpose does it serve then?
Thats what happens when something is fundamentaly wrong. You add more stuff to it that makes it have even less sense.

RTFM is definitely not for modern gamers... but was it them that the game was made for?
And besides, if the game itself cannot make its main mechanics clear through the gameplay then going for the manual is a crutch.

Are debuffs broken? Is DAMAGE a bad mechanic since it is manageable and there are multiple ways to deal with it?

Engagement gives the player added layers to think about in party/character creation and in the strategic and tactical choices involved with skill use.

I dont see how it does any of it. In its current form.

We were not talking about general "debuffs" as mechanics in whatever sense that may be taken. Not just "damage". But specifically about engagement and how it works now.

Its main and biggest problem is that it is given to every class and ever fucking creature in the game - which makes nonsense.
And we see that non-sense proliferating through different bigger and smaller effects in gameplay and various negative reactions to those various effects.

Something that makes no sense whatsoever - cannot and will not result in a good gameplay.
At best the players can learn to tolerate it and say "well its not so bad because it doesnt destroy the game completely".
And what fucking use does that have?


Since i have to repeat everything many, many times... Sensukis solution of just removing it completely is also nonsense. Exchanges one extreme for another.

It needs to be improved, not overblown into nonsense or removed completely. Its a tool. You dont use your tools that way. You dont use a screwdriver for everything you do. And you dont throw it away. Thats just idiotic.
You use tools in the way that is most efficient. And you use a specific tool for specific job or use.

One of the main design goals of this project was to improve the fighter class. Engagement was a perfect tool to do it, completely in line with the general direction of making fighters front line soldiers with their own unique capabilities - which all other classes have.
So the best solution is to have only fighters capable of engaging in this way. (plus a few other select classes and creatures but on a minimal basic level) - which i explained in more detail elsewhere and i dont feel like repeating.

But, fuck it, its too late now.

but was it them that the game was made for?

Ultimately? Yes.

You need only look around the Codex to see why. Old-school gamers are a relatively small, excessively tight-fisted group of people. The killer isn't necessarily that we're a small group, but that most of us are cheapasses.

Uhm, he was talking about the engagement system. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say most casual gamers don't even know what a system of attack of opportunity is, nor will they be interested in playing around with such a system.
Sometimes a bad design decision is just a bad design decision.

Blaine was generally speaking right, and he can shoot of on a tangent if its clear its a tangential point. It wasnt as if i was limiting the answer only to engagement and nothing else whatsoever. I use engagement as an example for some wider issues too.
No need for you to come in and tell him what i was talking about.

The point is that several of the game design decisions were distorted for the wrongly percieved casual audience. The same way they wrongly perceived the need to provide characters and portraits of characters of different races and then they wonder how is it that most of their audience in white.

The same thing happened with Wasteland 2 and Original Sin. And whats especially infuriating there is that all these games were directly financed by a different kind of audience. Yet in all three cases we see companies still fucking distorting design for the casuals.
And most of that "casual crowd" is not even real.

I wouldn't agree that there is some kind of tight-fisted Old school audience either. I certainly dont feel it. I dont see it. What i see is different people that want good games, not just repetition of past high water marks.
If someone made an exact copy of Fallouts tomorrow i would say its a stupid thing to do.

It would be a similar mistake to imagine that kind of a group and then distort design for "them" too. Its nothing more then jumping from one imaginary extreme to its oposite.

What you should fucking do is make a great game. The best that you can. That should be the only concern. And if you do that then all fucking audience groups will fall in line. And like it.

Thats how all of the best games in the genre were made.

 

[Zombra]

Why are the hair colors still fucking neon. I was gonna use the new badass dwarf portrait, but all the red/orange colors look like shit. Actually the dwarf models look shit in general.

Can't help with the in-game models, but I can take a stab at photoshopping the portrait in question so it has black hair or something.

Does it drive anybody else crazy that Calisca's portrait is a 90° profile while every other portrait ever is 3/4 view or straight on? I wonder if we'll be able to easily add custom portraits for NPCs.

Yes.

yeah I complained about that particular female portrait. it's still in? where the fuck is quality control?!?!?!?!?!+ ABSURDIAN!!!!!

FWIW I found a painting of a woman a bit more 80s but fairly similar in appearance. Someone please let me know if there's a way to substitute this into the game for Calisca.

Spoiler

 

[Seari]

Why are the hair colors still fucking neon. I was gonna use the new badass dwarf portrait, but all the red/orange colors look like shit. Actually the dwarf models look shit in general.

Can't help with the in-game models, but I can take a stab at photoshopping the portrait in question so it has black hair or something.

Thank you, but I'll do it myself. I really don't get why they went with the neon hair colors, it looks fucking horrendous.

edit: nevermind, it looks fine in-game, just neon in character creation

 

[polo]

Why are the hair colors still fucking neon. I was gonna use the new badass dwarf portrait, but all the red/orange colors look like shit. Actually the dwarf models look shit in general.

Can't help with the in-game models, but I can take a stab at photoshopping the portrait in question so it has black hair or something.

Does it drive anybody else crazy that Calisca's portrait is a 90° profile while every other portrait ever is 3/4 view or straight on? I wonder if we'll be able to easily add custom portraits for NPCs.

Yes.

yeah I complained about that particular female portrait. it's still in? where the fuck is quality control?!?!?!?!?!+ ABSURDIAN!!!!!

FWIW I found a painting of a woman a bit more 80s but fairly similar in appearance. Someone please let me know if there's a way to substitute this into the game for Calisca.

Spoiler

Nice find man, i really wish her portrait wasnt 90º cause i do like her.

 

[Fry]

Jesus, it's portrait art. It's ok that they're not all the same orientation.

 

[STOMP MY BALLS $5]

Jesus, it's portrait art. It's ok that they're not all the same orientation.

no ..... it is not! ... haha.

 

[Zed]

 

[Fry]

Beware the autist.

 

[Athelas]

The gates of Prosperland have been breached.