Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
6,942
Location
Devlet-i ʿAlīye-i ʿErdogānīye
Who are these "people" and how do Obs know this? Are there a lot of medieval settings in games that deviate from D&D/Tolkien out there that are unsuccessful because of that, so they know the statistic? At the top of my head, only Arcanum comes to mind as a not successful attempt, but I don't think it was because it wasn't like D&D.

What are your successful examples? Only successful attempts I know are either straight up D&D or just not-Europe fantasy in terms of rpgs. Sure there are successful RPGs that are not fantasy whatsoever I.E fallout and what not but when it's fantasy it's not-Europe. Trust me I would love something that's not Tolkien/D&D(I hate D&D) not-European; Chinese, Mesapotamian, Islamic Middle-east, Indian (Especially this), Pre-Islamic Iranian and Pre-Christian European. Hell I would even welcome something that's not-Europe but not Tolkien/D&D (warhammer). Yet most people, especially American audience, does not give a fuck.

On another note Urban fantasy is one of my most wanted versions of fantasy.
 
Last edited:

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,734
Pathfinder: Wrath
Gothic, Elder Scrolls Morrowind, Legacy of Kain, Heroes of Might and Magic up to 4 (I'd say it deviates enough for it to count), Age of Wonders (same), Final Fantasy (do some of them count as medieval?), Demon's/Dark Souls, Diablo, Dungeon Keeper, Legend of Zelda, etc. etc. All of them aren't Tolkien-esque to the point of parody.
 

FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
6,942
Location
Devlet-i ʿAlīye-i ʿErdogānīye
Dark souls is not a RPG, good setting though but I doubt it would succeed just on that. HOMM is not a RPG and it's actually major derivative of Warhammer (Which is ok but Warhammer is not-Europe), Age of Wonders is not a RPG, Final fantasy is p. much medieval fantasy except Japanese. Diablo is medieval (also not a RPG), Dungeon Keeper is medieval and not a RPG. Legend of Zelda is kind of Europeanish but I'll give you that one. Elder scrolls is your average not-Europe with elves and orcs.

Also main audience for games like Dark souls, Elder scrolls, Final fantasy and diablo are very big on medieval not-Europe fantasy. Something actually unique and not roughly based on medieval Europe and does not coincidence one way or another with Tolkien and D&D is extremely rare. Even Japs often base their games on it generally.

Gothic and Legacy of Kain are basically cult niches and those are the only ones I would say from there do not fit the bill.
 

FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
6,942
Location
Devlet-i ʿAlīye-i ʿErdogānīye
Elder scrolls is your average not-Europe with elves and orcs.

Morrowind, not Elder Scrolls.

Morrowind is definitely very good setting wise and I appreciate that, I have no idea how that came from Bethesda. I would love more strange settings like that where you are an outsider to. Except everyone seems to chase a familiarity instead, where more than sense of wonder a sense of nostalgia is favoured.

It's however focused on a specific part of Elder Scrolls. I mean at that point we might even say Skyrim because one of their DLCs also do another dark elf section in isolation.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,734
Pathfinder: Wrath
I was listing successful games with settings that are medieval fantasy, yet aren't Tolkien-esque/D&D-ish, not specifically RPGs.
 

FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
6,942
Location
Devlet-i ʿAlīye-i ʿErdogānīye
I was listing successful games with settings that are medieval fantasy, yet aren't Tolkien-esque/D&D-ish, not specifically RPGs.

The common and concurrent Medieval fantasy is very wholly based on Tolkien. It might not be a case of parody level with all of them as you mentioned but a lot of aspects people take for granted and might not even notice in isolation originated from Tolkien. Specifically his world-building formed from his Luddite Catholic views shaped by his interest in Anglo-Saxon and Medieval England. Funnily, Dark Souls might the most Catholic themed game I have ever seen.

Also as I said it's still not-Europe, even most of the different ones do not venture far from that concept and are only original within that frame and scope. It's very rare to see something like Morrowind, Arcanum or Urban fantasy. Really one of a kind.

A nice example of "historical" fantasy that's not European medieval I have seen is Endless Legend. It has some unique concepts but again not a RPG.
 
Last edited:

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,734
Pathfinder: Wrath
I am fully aware that the entire concept of creating a different world is Tolkien's and D&D is heavily based on him, but that doesn't mean all successful medieval fantasy games follow the details of D&D to a T. There are many which are still medieval fantasy and rely on Tolkien's ideas and on the success of D&D, but aren't simply a copy-pasted job like PoE. PoE is in the uncanny valley of "way too similar for comfort, on the edge of plagiarism".
 

FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
6,942
Location
Devlet-i ʿAlīye-i ʿErdogānīye
I agree that PoE is very heavily D&D influenced but it's what it was marketed as and succeed upon no? Which brings us to square one again about its prevalence. Medieval fantasy will be Tolkienesque and will have common with D&D for various reasons. Medieval fantasy concept is so heavily explored it's hard to be original within it. I'd also say PoE by taking the timeline a bit further is being a bit more original than others.
 
Last edited:

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
99,655
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Uh why even bring up Tolkien. Tolkien doesn't have mephits.

What's relevant here is the Infinity Engine games. And mephits happen to be one of the first things you see in Baldur's Gate 2. So if it's supposed to be PoE1 = BG1, PoE2 = BG2, then adding them is a no-brainer.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,734
Pathfinder: Wrath
I agree that PoE is very heavily D&D influenced but it's what it was marketed as and succeed upon no?

Was it? I don't remember anyone saying "we'll literally give you D&D, but with the names changed" during the Kickstarter pitch, I might have missed it. Is there a statistic somewhere describing exactly what people liked about PoE? If not, how do Obs know that aping D&D is what people want?
 

FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
6,942
Location
Devlet-i ʿAlīye-i ʿErdogānīye
I agree that PoE is very heavily D&D influenced but it's what it was marketed as and succeed upon no?

Was it? I don't remember anyone saying "we'll literally give you D&D, but with the names changed" during the Kickstarter pitch, I might have missed it. Is there a statistic somewhere describing exactly what people liked about PoE? If not, how do Obs know that aping D&D is what people want?

Directly from kickstarter:

Project Eternity aims to recapture the magic, imagination, depth, and nostalgia of classic RPG's that we enjoyed making - and playing. At Obsidian, we have the people responsible for many of those classic games and we want to bring those games back… and that’s why we’re here - we need your help to make it a reality!

Imagination and nostalgia in same sentence is of course very funny. However it's very obvious it was very much revivalism as much as it could be based on D&D.
 
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
781
Uh why even bring up Tolkien. Tolkien doesn't have mephits.

What's relevant here is the Infinity Engine games. And mephits happen to be one of the first things you see in Baldur's Gate 2. So if it's supposed to be PoE1 = BG1, PoE2 = BG2, then they're a no-brainer.

Bring on the riddles
VlXq0.jpg
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
I'd take horsespiders over mephit-a-likes any day of the week. If they want to rip off D&D so much, rip off the more obscure monsters, rather than the most mainstream and used ones. They are a bit too reminiscent of their D&D design, though. There are many ways to represent an imp, but the way they do it is literally mephits even down to how they fight. It rubs me the wrong way, it seems uncomfortably like plagiarism.

It's impossible to not "rip off" D&D if you are making medieval fantasy. D&D itself is like a collection of everything from Tolkien to regular mythology and everything else. Put ogres, orcs and elves in your game and it's a "D&D rip off"
*cough* Elder Scrolls *cough*
A rip off of D&D (Planescape) that was progressively retconned into being a rip off of D&D (Forgotten Realms).
 

Grotesque

±¼ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
9,391
Divinity: Original Sin Divinity: Original Sin 2
gunpowder and how what's the point of it in a world magic exists?

- Gunpowder is the poor man's "mana" which uses it to hurl metallic pebbles at snob wizards.
- But there's no mana in the game!!..
- Shut. The fuck. Up.


Bring on the riddles
VlXq0.jpg

That's also why I bought myself an M.2 SSD, to easily bypass shit like this when I see it
 

Sentinel

Arcane
Joined
Nov 18, 2015
Messages
6,822
Location
Ommadawn
When you're working on a thing you hate on a daily basis you have to resort to desperate measures to indoctrinate yourself into believing it's good and worthwhile.
 

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,558
Give the guy a break, they're probably in the middle of insane crunch working ungodly hours to push the game to the finish line, as per industry standard.
 

Manzepio

Novice
Joined
Dec 22, 2016
Messages
14
Location
Carceri
So from what I've gathered, it's basically going to be Pillars 1 with some QoL improvements, Indians, hyperlinks and obvious backpedalling by Sawyer once it finally landed on him that his genius ability score system might not win any fan awards.

I'm torn on the combat system, on one hand it seems efficient and straightforward, but I have no idea why they've removed shit that was working perfectly fine and in my opinion actually added something to the game, instead of tweaking or reworking them, like general talents, the endurance system, and resting system (which my tabletop group blatantly stole for our D&D games) ; And what's with that bullshit about cramming magic into the same category as fucking class talents? spell allotments per encounter? what the actual fuck?
Streamlining is a road in which the only destination is shitsville, why people still advocate for the axing of features after we've seen what this cyst of a design philosophy has done to many a game is beyond me.

I guess we'll wait and see if they actually listen to feedback which is what Sawyer seems to be doing. I guess you could say I'm cautiously optimistic. :littlemissfun:
 
Last edited:

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,734
Pathfinder: Wrath
Thanks to the very generous Sizzle, I have access to the beta. Playing on Hard mode, I made a Druid/Rogue focused on dealing damage while shifted, will talk more about that when I actually get into combat. I talked to 2 people and I'm already annoyed with the highlighted words. I got annoyed at the first person because he kept using those made up words they like so much, he uses them constantly and it breaks the flow of reading because I have to mouse-over the new words every sentence. I got annoyed at the second one because they highlighted FOOD of all things. When you mouse over it it starts explaining the mechanical aspects of food instead of lore, so it's really bizarre.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,734
Pathfinder: Wrath
So, before going to bed, these are my first impressions, I stopped just after killing the Engwithan Titan -

1. I expected to be assaulted with lore in Tikawara (the village you start at), but was pleasantly surprised that this was not the case and the whole village was over with quite fast. Skill checks are everywhere in dialogue, but they are mostly cosmetic alla PoE1. There was only 1 quest where you can get extra clues if you manage to pass the skill check, at least that's what I found. The quest itself was eeehhh, I won't spoil it, but if anyone wants me to talk about specific things about the writing I'll put them in spoiler tags.

2. The highlighted words will probably continue to annoy me, but for different reasons. The Huana call the gods by different names and it highlights them, telling you an entire myth surrounding those gods. Considering there is a priestess in the village versed in such lore, this should not be happening. The highlighted words should just say "the Huana name for Berath" and nothing else, you should be able to ask the priestess about any such myths. The UI is not a free lore dispenser.

3. I love the overland map. It's like NWN2 SoZ and it makes me want to replay it again, which is probably what I'll do after this. It uses those CYOA texts where you get to use your skills a lot and it can give you a distinct advantage in combat. You can find places that aren't specifically marked on the map that give you bonuses. It sounds worse than it is, so that says a lot. All in all, very good job.

4. The combat... is a mess. One of the problems is the UI - it's almost unreadable when you are on the battlefield, it's buggy as hell and it's still a pain in the ass trying to figure out what buffs and debuffs you have. Watching the models fight is also unreadable, I really have no idea what is happening and I'm blindly going through it, reacting to whatever I can actually decipher. I can't even decide if it's too fast or not because I don't know if that's the problem. I also don't know if a spell has been cast or if it has affected anything, I simply can't read it, it's such a jumbled mess. There is so much to say about the actual mechanics that I don't know where to even begin.

First off, I got rid of the pre-generated Rogue because I am one and I didn't need another, and I made a Cipher/Ranger instead. My Druid/Rogue and the aforementioned replacement tore the mobs to shreds. The Cat Spiritshift is ridiculous, through the roof damage + super fast attack speed + the insane maneuverability of the Rogue tree + the survivability of the other Spiritshifts makes for an almost unstoppable killing machine that blasts its way through the battlefield without worry about engagement, positioning or anything else. The Cipher/Ranger also does insane damage with only her bow, yet her spells fall a bit on the wayside because, like I said, I don't know if they are successful or not 90% of the time. My custom characters are 10x as useful as the pregenerated ones, much more damage, survivability and utility.

Strength and Resolve are completely useless as damage-dealing stats, my custom characters have both at 10, but they still annihilate everything. It's still much more beneficial to dump CON, RES and STR and raise everything else. Penetration is a weak and annoying mechanic that you almost have no control over. Nobody has any spells that affect Penetration, at least I don't think so, I don't actually know what the inspirations/afflictions do, so maybe some of them do affect it, I'll come back to you on that, nor do I have access to talents that increase Penetration. The only thing I have are the stiletto and war bow modals, which lower your attack speed by 100%, but give you a measly 2 Penetration in return. It's a bit vague which spells are affected by Penetration and which aren't. I think stacking this when you can and stacking Accuracy is still the way to go.

It's very easy to not fall in combat, so I didn't rest even once until now, only the Wizard fell once, but the wounds are so pathetic that it doesn't matter.

The ranged enemies immediately target whoever is casting *anything*, so I found it more beneficial to wait for them to use up their first attacks and then start casting with anyone. I don't think spell casts are really as slow as people say they are, but I have to test this more. That's it for now with combat, even though I have more things to say, I'll do it later.

5. The buuuuuugggsss. Soooo maaaaaaany buuuuggggs. I hope they are on a bug squishing spree because it's awful.

That's it for now, will see what more I can say tomorrow.
 
Last edited:

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom