Game News Pillars of Eternity Released

[treave]

I think it was a big challenge to make the Watcher's atrophy of the mind seem realistic to the player. I mean, what can you do? You can't fuck with the player's control over his own character, action or dialogue.

I don't think it can be done fairly without having a meter that players can monitor, like in MoTB, or else people would complain of railroading the madness. But if they wanted to, a possible way to convey it would be to run a Malkavian filter over dialogue choices as the mental degeneration progresses, until ultimately all the options you can select are seemingly nonsensical sentences, which would obviously negatively impact some quests, but may also allow for different ways to solve others.

It would definitely require more writing and scripting for it to work, but I can see it being done - skill checks for dialogue are already there, dialogue that you don't have the stats for can already be hidden, and there's already an example in Aloth of an awakened character shooting off their mouth but not having it affect combat.

 

[Lerk]

I find Durance to be the most annoyingly written companion. Way too over written. Not as bad as Kreia, but still way too self consciously anti hero (ooh this priest calls his goddess a whore and likes to use sexual imagery to make some half assed pseudo philosophical point, that`s original)

Also he decides to journey with you in order to facilitate some mutual self discovery (or some such) and then harangues you continually for having the nerve to talk to him.

What a prick. I get you're meant to hate him, but I hate him because he's so obviously a try-hard pastiche.

 

[Tigranes]

I think it was a big challenge to make the Watcher's atrophy of the mind seem realistic to the player. I mean, what can you do? You can't fuck with the player's control over his own character, action or dialogue.

I don't think it can be done fairly without having a meter that players can monitor, like in MoTB, or else people would complain of railroading the madness. But if they wanted to, a possible way to convey it would be to run a Malkavian filter over dialogue choices as the mental degeneration progresses, until ultimately all the options you can select are seemingly nonsensical sentences, which would obviously negatively impact some quests, but may also allow for different ways to solve others.

It would definitely require more writing and scripting for it to work, but I can see it being done - skill checks for dialogue are already there, dialogue that you don't have the stats for can already be hidden, and there's already an example in Aloth of an awakened character shooting off their mouth but not having it affect combat.

In both cases, players would complain a lot about being forced into a degradation arc - because we are so used to games being something where everything becomes more convenient, stable, capable, over the course of the game. I liked MOTB meter and thought it was appropriate, but see all the massive butthurt related to that, on Codex as well as everywhere else.

Lerk Durance I think would have benefited from being a little bit jaded and less verbose. He's an intense character, but that doesn't jive well with his fate as the dude who jumps in every 3 hours to give you a short conversation. His overwritten ROAR also buries some very well written lines / conceits beneath a lot of hard-to-understand dribble.

 

[treave]

I think it was a big challenge to make the Watcher's atrophy of the mind seem realistic to the player. I mean, what can you do? You can't fuck with the player's control over his own character, action or dialogue.

I don't think it can be done fairly without having a meter that players can monitor, like in MoTB, or else people would complain of railroading the madness. But if they wanted to, a possible way to convey it would be to run a Malkavian filter over dialogue choices as the mental degeneration progresses, until ultimately all the options you can select are seemingly nonsensical sentences, which would obviously negatively impact some quests, but may also allow for different ways to solve others.

It would definitely require more writing and scripting for it to work, but I can see it being done - skill checks for dialogue are already there, dialogue that you don't have the stats for can already be hidden, and there's already an example in Aloth of an awakened character shooting off their mouth but not having it affect combat.

In both cases, players would complain a lot about being forced into a degradation arc - because we are so used to games being something where everything becomes more convenient, stable, capable, over the course of the game. I liked MOTB meter and thought it was appropriate, but see all the massive butthurt related to that, on Codex as well as everywhere else.

Off the top of my head, if you couple the insanity dialogue with, say, combat benefits, it would not seem to be so much of a degradation arc like MoTB's penalties for not feeding, and would also provide players with a trade-off to consider - sacrifice their sanity for less (but weirder) options in questing, or play it straight? After all, Maerwald didn't seem to be any less capable in a fight for all his madness. There's probably more that could be said about this, but that's probably a subject more fit for the PoE subforum and not the main point I want to make here.

My point is that having the insanity "seem realistic to the player" isn't some insurmountable obstacle for Obsidian. They can do it if they want to, I believe they have the ability to pull it off, and all of the foundation they need is already in the game, mechanics and lore-wise. They chose not to, perhaps because of accessibility reasons, perhaps because of budget and time constraints, perhaps because they thought it would not be popular.

And that's perfectly fine with me, that's their choice. Still, as you said, it's totally impossible to avoid butthurt - meter or no meter or no effect at all - and I kinda hoped they'd have been more ballsy about this since even playing it safe they'd generate butthurt. Hopefully Obsidian are willing to take more creative risks with the expansion pack now that the assets are in place, and PoE is shaping up to be a commercial and critical (outside the Codex) success.

 

[Tigranes]

Good points. And yes, I too would have liked them to take a chance and do something innovative in this regard. I'm willing to give them a pass on POE1 just because they had a lot of work to do to get all the basic systems going, but it would have been cool to explore the Watcher/soul aspect more in ways that have gameplay ramifications.

I very much hope that expansion packs & sequels tackle the more unusual locations (Rauatai), or at least the Vailian Republics which are pretty normal but look and sound very sharp. The Celtic / tribal / druidic mix they had going for Twin Elms / Glanfathans was also very good, it's a pity the player spends half his time in Defiance Bay with boring humans and not enough exploring the social dynamics there.

It's also a missed opportunity that, outside the atrophy aspect, soul-reading just doesn't get many interesting applications. Sure, it's not the same as mind-reading (which Divinity 2 used to pretty good effect in dialogues), but it seemed to mainly be a crutch for infodumps. They made a good effort in the scene where you talk to the fampyr-woman in Heritage Hill and her pride blooms out at you. The delivery there was imperfect because there's no risk and you just go through the motions, but more instances like that would have driven home the peculiarity of your condition, and what it feels like to relate to people through their souls in this direct way.

 

[Modron]

Well it's currently off the top seller list on Steam. Will it make a non-sale comeback? O:

Eh 4 of those 1st page are on sale once those disappear poe will be back on the first page, but as far as reclaiming the top spots? Doubt it. Both GTA and Skylines are workhorses and have hit a million sold, and MK X is a new release.

 

[Naraya]

Well it's currently off the top seller list on Steam. Will it make a non-sale comeback? O:

Eh 4 of those 1st page are on sale once those disappear poe will be back on the first page, but as far as reclaiming the top spots? Doubt it. Both GTA and Skylines are workhorses and have hit a million sold, and MK X is a new release.

More to the point - who the hell cares?

 

[naossano]

At least three members, plus a bunch of lurkers.

 

[Modron]

Well it's currently off the top seller list on Steam. Will it make a non-sale comeback? O:

Eh 4 of those 1st page are on sale once those disappear poe will be back on the first page, but as far as reclaiming the top spots? Doubt it. Both GTA and Skylines are workhorses and have hit a million sold, and MK X is a new release.

More to the point - who the hell cares?

Eh, sure the people at obsidian do once you disappear down the nethers of steam i am sure sales decline as visibility is a strong component of success on steam.

 

[toro]

I'm late to the party cause I did not have a computer for like a month.

+ Graphics is exceptional. I dream of Arcanum 2 using this engine.
+ Endless Paths is surprisingly satisfying. I'm really having fun exploring the dungeons. More-so than the main story.
- The only thing that clearly sucks is the damage handling. It's a mess.

 

[Obama Phone 3]

Are we getting an official Codex review?

 

[Irenaeus]

Are we getting an official Codex review?

No. Never.

 

[Bleed the Man]

Are we getting an official Codex review?

This is a prestigious magazine, it has heavy editorial standards.

We wait like the refined and prestigious gentlemen we are.

 

[Brayko]

Well it's currently off the top seller list on Steam. Will it make a non-sale comeback? O:

Eh 4 of those 1st page are on sale once those disappear poe will be back on the first page, but as far as reclaiming the top spots? Doubt it. Both GTA and Skylines are workhorses and have hit a million sold, and MK X is a new release.

More to the point - who the hell cares?

I'd say sales represents Inclines dogged resistance.

 

[naossano]

Are we getting an official Codex review?

I am not sure it was already played seven time by anyone here...

 

[Bubbles]

Are we getting an official Codex review?

If I had to bet money on it, I'd say early June.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

If I had to bet money on it, I'd say early June.

They have to beat it 7 times before their opinion counts officially?

 

[Brayko]

If I had to bet money on it, I'd say early June.

They have to beat it 7 times before their opinion counts officially?

That's actually probably a good idea.

 

[Septaryeth]

Are we getting an official Codex review?

This is a prestigious magazine, it has heavy editorial standards.

We wait like the refined and prestigious gentlemen we are.

In the brothel. Wait in the brothel, with membership ring you can only obtain from drunkards. Don't forget that part.

 

[DeepOcean]

I'm a storyfag, how is the plot in this game? Compelling? Interesting characters / villains?

Pro tip if you plan in playing: Resist the temptation of cleaning every single area ( Defiance Bay, I'm looking at you.) of side quests and tasks at the start. Most side quests are boring, formulaic and are going to make you overleveled, bored and jaded by the time the main plot picks up by the end of act 2. PoE is at its best on dungeon crawling and at its lowest on the sidequests. There is a bunch of nice dungeon crawling on the main plot and Caed Nua, not the best dungeons on the world in terms of encounter design but still solid and fun dungeon crawling.

 

[naossano]

For those interested, it seems that there is a mod that remove engagement.
http://rien-ici.com/iemod/

 

[Deleted member 7219]

I'm a storyfag, how is the plot in this game? Compelling? Interesting characters / villains?

Pro tip if you plan in playing: Resist the temptation of cleaning every single area ( Defiance Bay, I'm looking at you.) of side quests and tasks at the start. Most side quests are boring, formulaic and are going to make you overleveled, bored and jaded by the time the main plot picks up by the end of act 2. PoE is at its best on dungeon crawling and at its lowest on the sidequests. There is a bunch of nice dungeon crawling on the main plot and Caed Nua, not the best dungeons on the world in terms of encounter design but still solid and fun dungeon crawling.

I completely disagree, I thought the sidequests were done really well, even the tasks, and had some nice alternate endings. I don't know why you mentioned dungeon crawling considering the guy declared himself a storyfag. We storyfags don't play games for the dungeon crawling.

 

[Melcar]

Goddamn storyfags ruining shit for everyone.

 

[aweigh]

the game is less enjoyable than NWN 2

lack of gambits make combat a chore

 

[Jasede]

For those interested, it seems that there is a mod that remove engagement.
http://rien-ici.com/iemod/

Why, though? Wouldn't that make the game easier?...