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Preview Pillars of Eternity: The White March Gameplay Footage at Gamescom 2015

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Irenaeus II

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Yes, the game was developed for me, who likes a great and deep RPG with a good story, setting, motivation, alternatives, choices, percentages, gameplay and combat.

Look elsewhere if you want shit games instead, while we have fun with PoE.
 

Shevek

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Sep 20, 2003
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Its kind of a shame, urgent plot or not the watcher position warranted some narrative mechanic a la the Spirit Meter. In fact, I'd argue that with so many NPCs commenting on your impending madness, that sort urgency would be a good shape for the PC's motivation, which is also one of those things that PoE lacks. But I guess Obisidian is really wary of doing that sort of thing since the last time?
Didnt Zeits say he regreted including that in MotB?
 

Duraframe300

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Dec 21, 2010
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This is the distilled essence of the decline. The spiritmeter was doubleplusgood.

Kevin Saunders gave its ok and Eric Fenstermaker designed/implemented it. Not sure how much Ziets was involved with it. Did he come up with it?
 

Roguey

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I think everyone involved agrees they botched the execution of the spirit meter. New Torment's way of handling the passage of time is a reaction to that.
 
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vivec

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I donot agree. It may NOT have been the epitome of design but what exactly was botched about it?
 

Delterius

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Didnt Zeits say he regreted including that in MotB?
I do recall some developers regretting the Spirit Meter due to how many players (but mostly previewers) couldn't figure it out. And even if that's isn't the reason why Zeits dislikes it, I'd respectfully claim that this opinion is very stupid. The Spirit Meter was the one time a D&D western RPG created a mechanic specific to the story of the module it was running. Its a great idea all around.
 

Rivmusique

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Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Only thing I disliked was that it continued to decay in real-time during the not-cutscene-conversations (where you got a little box rather than the fully VAed, camera-cuts stuff that the bigger convo's got) and looking at inventory/examining items/character sheet/merchants/spellbook/other UI shit where I'm not really playing. Wasn't massive, just had to learn to manually pause whenever going in to those things, which I was sometimes doing already to keep buffs up as long as possible. But auto-pausing for some of that stuff might have been nice. When I hear that some felt "rushed", I think that perhaps they never figured out how to do this.
 

Sannom

Augur
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Messages
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I don't think PoE is really supposed to have a sense of urgency. You're shown that Maerwald got old and went nuts, but it seems that this took decades, so it's not actually, y'know, urgent.
It seemed to have taken only a few years to me, basically from the moment he Awakened two of his previous incarnations which were linked to Caed Nua.

Yeah, the impression I got is that the pervasive visions you see directly after the Supernatural Incident(tm) are like the initial shock of becoming a Watcher, but then you get it under control (and when you grow old, you lose control again).
I was under the impression that the PC and Maerwald were Watchers who had the misfortune of Awakening, Maerwald's case being worse because he had two or three previous lives who were linked to Caed Nua, who Awakened and things just got worse because he lived at the place.
 

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Only thing I disliked was that it continued to decay in real-time during the not-cutscene-conversations (where you got a little box rather than the fully VAed, camera-cuts stuff that the bigger convo's got) and looking at inventory/examining items/character sheet/merchants/spellbook/other UI shit where I'm not really playing. Wasn't massive, just had to learn to manually pause whenever going in to those things, which I was sometimes doing already to keep buffs up as long as possible. But auto-pausing for some of that stuff might have been nice. When I hear that some felt "rushed", I think that perhaps they never figured out how to do this.
That is not true, at least not with patches.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
Spirit Meter is an excellent moron detector. If you don't like it, you're probably not worth knowing. It isn't perfect, so it isn't above criticism, but the people who bitch and whine about it don't know what they are talking about.
 

Roguey

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That is not true, at least not with patches.
It was true for me and I was fully patched up (no disc required).

I donot agree. It may NOT have been the epitome of design but what exactly was botched about it?

The fact that it ticked down in realtime, resulting in an ever-present anxiety with people who want to take their time with exploration.

George Ziets said:
But here’s the problem. Many – possibly most – RPG players like to take their time exploring the world, talking to NPCs, discovering secret areas, and completing side quests. The spirit meter actively discourages this style of play, encouraging the player to stick to the main quest and resolve the curse as quickly as possible. So unless players found a way to “cheat” the curse (which many did), they were discouraged from exploring our side content and enjoying the game the way they wanted to enjoy it.

Years later, I had some discussions with Josh Sawyer about this, and I now find myself on the opposite side of the debate. I think a player’s sense of being “cursed” could be reinforced in other, less heavy-handed ways – for example, NPC reactions, scripted events, visual changes, and settlements that won’t admit the player (forcing you to find a more dangerous way inside and be “on edge” at the prospect of discovery whenever you are there). I think we could also have found less fatal ways to create the sense of a curse that is “draining” the player – for example, your abilities deteriorate if you don’t feed, but you don’t actually die, making the curse impactful but not a game-stopper. Or maybe even a “hard core” mode where the curse was fatal, and a “normal” mode where it wasn’t.

Ultimately, I want players to be able to enjoy the game without having to resort to cheats or exploits, and for many players, I feel like the spirit meter became an obstacle to enjoying our content.

I did some metagaming myself. In my low craving playthrough, I took advantage of the fact that area transitions reset suppress without taking any spirit away, so I just suppressed it away at the Mulsantir gates until it was at zero then played normally. On high craving playthroughs, I edited the cooldown to something like 30 seconds or a minute and used self-control to not spam it in combat because five was bullshit.
 

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
I did some metagaming myself. In my low craving playthrough, I took advantage of the fact that area transitions reset suppress without taking any spirit away, so I just suppressed it away at the Mulsantir gates until it was at zero then played normally. On high craving playthroughs, I edited the cooldown to something like 30 seconds or a minute and used self-control to not spam it in combat because five was bullshit.
Nah, its cool.

You get max craving, ability to eat humans in an aoe, then just cast it as soon as it comes off cooldown. Who cares that you go down to like 50 spirit energy between casts? That's what makes you feel like an out of control monster.

I could easily see the spirit eater mechanic work without being lethal, just have the game autocast the "trade xp for energy" when you reach 0.
 

Roguey

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One of the worst aspects of that cooldown is that it's practically impossible to kill enough hags in one go to make the super-coven enchantment, so if you don't edit it yourself, you have to wait five minutes. Terrible, just terrible.
 

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
One of the worst aspects of that cooldown is that it's practically impossible to kill enough hags in one go to make the super-coven enchantment, so if you don't edit it yourself, you have to wait five minutes. Terrible, just terrible.
This is true. It is very hard to hit 5/9 hags lethall at the same time.

I'm pretty sure I still did it. I'll make sure to check if I still can once I get there this playthrough.
 
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vivec

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Roguey

Hardly what I would call a botched feature. Even if it is NOT implemented right, the idea is very good and in MoTB you have to be completely new to the genre to totally screw yourself with it.
 

Roguey

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Roguey

Hardly what I would call a botched feature. Even if it is NOT implemented right, the idea is very good and in MoTB you have to be completely new to the genre to totally screw yourself with it.
A lot of people are bad at playing games despite years worth of RPG experience. Just look at Chris Avellone's Arcanum LP.
 
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Lurker King

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"This place is like somebody's memory of a studio, and the memory is fading. It's like there was never anything here but jungle".
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Uh.

It doesn't have much to do with me. I hope all of our Gamescom writeups will be ready soon.
 

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