Preview Pillars of Eternity: The White March Gameplay Footage at Gamescom 2015

[Excidium II]

I don't think PoE is really supposed to have a sense of urgency. You're shown that Maerwald got old and went nuts, but it seems that this took decades, so it's not actually, y'know, urgent.

They do try to create that sense of eroding sanity with the nightmares, visions of tortured souls and all that stuff, you even get a conversation with Eder, he tells you how he notices you are always on edge and all. But it's just half-assed like everything about PoE. Or maybe since you're the dragonborn anyway you just get over it in no time

I get a sense of story and progression feels natural in FNV while PoE I just move from A to B, doing B quests on map B1, B2 and B3 then moving to C since it's the only map exit

P. hard to believe it's the same writers on both games.

 

[Infinitron]

They do try to create that sense of eroding sanity with the nightmares, visions of tortured souls and all that stuff, you even get a conversation with Eder, he tells you how he notices you are always on edge and all. But it's just half-assed like everything about PoE. Or maybe since you're the dragonborn anyway you just get over it in no time

Yeah, the impression I got is that the pervasive visions you see directly after the Supernatural Incident(tm) are like the initial shock of becoming a Watcher, but then you get it under control (and when you grow old, you lose control again).

 

[Excidium II]

Well at least you can larp that you have supernatural protagonist willpower on PoE, I'll give you that. At least it isn't witcher 3 where I can find no excuse to be sightseeing the countryside while my daughter is being hunted by interdimensional elves for weeks.

 

[Delterius]

Its kind of a shame, urgent plot or not the watcher position warranted some narrative mechanic a la the Spirit Meter. In fact, I'd argue that with so many NPCs commenting on your impending madness, that sort urgency would be a good shape for the PC's motivation, which is also one of those things that PoE lacks. But I guess Obisidian is really wary of doing that sort of thing since the last time?

 

[Rake]

so he assumes a "well, I got nothing better to do than get to the bottom of this now" attitude.

If that's not the most shity hook up in the history of video games, i don't know what is...

 

[Infinitron]

If that's not the most shity hook up in the history of video games, i don't know what is...

The idea is that all hooks are basically shitty excuses (that no RPG veteran should give a fuck about by this point) to go on an adventure, kill monsters and take their gold, so fuck, just skip it and focus on the mystery

 

[Excidium II]

It's a low-effort game by Bioware's poor cousin after all

 

[Copper]

The idea is that all hooks are basically shitty excuses (that no RPG veteran should give a fuck about by this point) to go on an adventure, kill monsters and take their gold, so fuck, just skip it and focus on the mystery

That's - really dumb. The mystery is the hook. That's how it always works in pulp. The hook for a Sherlock Holmes story is not 'I called on Holmes for tea, just in time to see his new case.' It's the case itself, the locked room mystery, the exotic murder technique. The other shit is the preamble.

 

[Infinitron]

Didn't see this

I get a sense of story and progression feels natural in FNV while PoE I just move from A to B, doing B quests on map B1, B2 and B3 then moving to C since it's the only map exit

P. hard to believe it's the same writers on both games.

*shrug* I disagree, they feel pretty similar, with a focus on exploring detailed/pseudo-realistic setting, politics, etc. Maybe it's just that with first person exploration and the post-apocalyptic setting those things feel cooler to you, whereas in an IE-style game it's "click on all the things and read all the text" which you find boring. Well, I don't.

 

[Excidium II]

Maybe you enjoy it because as per your previous post you don't really give a fuck because lol it's an RPG kill stuff grab loot

 

[Infinitron]

Maybe you enjoy it because as per your previous post you don't really give a fuck because lol it's an RPG kill stuff grab loot

Doing that while discovering the details of the mystery, yeah (which is made more interesting by virtue of being embedded within said pseudo-realistic detailed setting)

Another thing that FO:NV and PoE have in common is the whole historyfag thing, where you're constantly going "Oh, hey, I get it, this is sort of like that thing that happened in real life history!". I really like that stuff. I understand that it might fly over a lot of people's heads, and I'm glad that it doesn't seem to hurt these games' sales.

 

[DeepOcean]

Doing that while discovering the details of the mystery, yeah (which is made more interesting by virtue of being embedded within said pseudo-realistic detailed setting)

Another thing that FO:NV and PoE have in common is the whole historyfag thing, where you're constantly going "Oh, hey, I get it, this is sort of like that thing that happened in real life history!". I really like that stuff. I understand that it might fly over a lot of people's heads, and I'm glad that it doesn't seem to hurt these games' sales.

FFS, that is one of the things I think Obsidian mostly drop the ball, they get you to explore a world with fucking animal children that eat people and other crazy animancy bullshit then get you to do inane sidequests involving fetch quests that wouldn't be out of place on a F2P MMO.

 

[Infinitron]

Nope. At some point, after I've finished the game, I may do a point-by-point breakdown of its many non-inane elements. Right now, though, I'm getting tired of this.

 

[A horse of course]

Another thing that FO:NV and PoE have in common is the whole historyfag thing, where you're constantly going "Oh, hey, I get it, this is sort of like that thing that happened in real life history!". I really like that stuff. I understand that it might fly over a lot of people's heads, and I'm glad that it doesn't seem to hurt these games' sales.

There is a good way of doing that, and then there is the "Authorities in The Witcher Calling Scoia'tael Terrorists But Some People Call Them Freedom Fighters DO U GEDDIT" approach.

Aside from that, to be frank I found certain elements of PoE's world just plain boring due to what you described. Using historical events is a very good base for characters and factions behaving or developing in plausible or interesting ways, especially since the historical record involves figures and institutions acting in ways that can deviate from tired old tropes. For example, very few games, movies or books that involve or are based on the Crusades accurately portray the behaviour of the Knightly Orders in Jerusalem - contrary to Hollywood, in certain cases they were some of the actors most likely to develop close relationships with the existing non-catholic populace, due to financial considerations. There are contemporary records of Knights from these orders protecting merchants from predation by secular military institutions, for example. But speaking in general terms, simply copypasta'ing wholesale is no better than typical generic fantasy, especially when you just slap a bunch of stupid saxon/celtic names on top and expect people to look them up. PoE has a mix of the reasonably interesting (facets of the political situation in the human/elf Empire that founded the colony) and the pathetically lazy (Venetians...BUT BLACK!!11!).

 

[Irenaeus II]

I don't think PoE is really supposed to have a sense of urgency. You're shown that Maerwald got old and went nuts, but it seems that this took decades, so it's not actually, y'know, urgent.

The vibe I get from the game is that your character is an outsider stuck in this colonial backwater, so he assumes a "well, I got nothing better to do than get to the bottom of this now" attitude.

Yeah, that's how I view PoE and it totally works for me.

 

[hemtae]

Because i didn't like it very much, no matter what the consesus here. Plus, it remindes me PoE in a lot of ways, so i believe that a game similar to PoE or New Vegas is well within current Obsidian abilities. If you like that or not depends on you.
I'm talking vanila New Vegas, the DLCs except Honest Hearts were better as far as structure and writing goes, but they had Avellone as Lead designer so...

Well you can't really expect the argument of "The White March won't be a great story driven experience like Mask of the Betrayer because Obsidian has lost too much personnel see: New Vegas and Pillars of Eternity" to hold much water in a place where New Vegas is generally seen as a great story driven experience.

Although this is pretty much a moot point since it's almost guaranteed to not be PoE's Mask of the Betrayer for the myriad of other reasons. I guess I'm more wondering about the alleged mediocrity of New Vegas when it seemed to do many things opposite from Pillars of Eternity.

 

[Darth Roxor]

The vibe I get from the game is that your character is an outsider stuck in this colonial backwater, so he assumes a "well, I got nothing better to do than get to the bottom of this now" attitude.

Indeed, each time I change flats, I also get the sudden urge to run people's mail and depose the president, so this motivation isn't unfamiliar.

 

[Havoc]

That's one boring flat. Nothing happens in it!

 

[Rake]

in a place where New Vegas is generally seen as a great story driven experience.

Not even the Codex is that retarded. New Vegas is regarded as a good game in the Codex, not a story driven experience. I have yet to see someone mentioning it as that. Vegas is too emergentt,"find your own motivation, make your own story" to be storydriven.
Also most people found PoE to have more things in common with New Vegas than differences. The only difference is that for some reason PoE is more divisive and New Vegas more generaly liked here. Part of thet is because people got to New Vegas with lower expactations due to Bethesda's previous
crap, and in Pillars the excitment was through the roof.
Or maybe FPP hiking Simulator works better for some people or New Vegas was better excecuted. Or New Vegas was the successor of worse games than PoE so in comparissons it fared better. Whatever the reason, the games seems very similar in structure and feel to me

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

So what are those "historyfag things" in PoE? Cant actually recall one historical event placed in PoE setting. Inb4 crusades or Doemenels as a venetian merchants

 

[ArchAngel]

So what are those "historyfag things" in PoE? Cant actually recall one historical event placed in PoE setting. Inb4 crusades or Doemenels as a venetian merchants

Probably the whole colonization of new world/eradicating the natives/rebellion vs the original country that colonized it

 

[Delterius]

Probably the whole colonization of new world/eradicating the natives/rebellion vs the original country that colonized it

Best described as just the NotAmericans freedooming their own country to death + Pocahontas city.

 

[DeepOcean]

(Venetians...BUT BLACK!!11!).

This was so awful, the problem is that PoE copy historic templates without adding anything of value to them, making venetians black was so lazy and boring. Okay, I get it, they are venetians but black, so? What the fuck are you going to do with this? Dyrwood situation is somewhat similar to the american colonies breaking up with England but it was just some static background that barely affected what you did on any way shape or form, most of the sidequests on Defiance Bay could be easily copy pasted on another setting and you wouldn't notice anything missing.

Morrowind does a much better job at this, okay, let's make the dark elves some weird mixture of arabs, hindus and japanese peoples but add some striking fantasy elements to not be a straight copy of history, so, they harvest eggs from huge ants that live on caves, they had mortal rulers that became gods and etc...So much wasn't discussed on PoE. Why the Dyrwoodians would try independence before destroying the noble savages? At least as an existential threat? The americans only tried independence when there was an enough number of people and developed settlements that the prospect for the indians getting rid of all those people was zero. The noble savages seem the type that see any concession as weakness, if Dyrwood banned slavery because of a failed war, the noble savages would see that as weakness and push for more concessions, maybe start raiding smaller villages to get it. Doesn't Dyrwood army has cannons, mages and guns?

The historic element is presented and dropped like a rock in PoE, what is a shame because there was crazy potential on it.

 

[Irenaeus II]

Jesus, some people are just tone deaf regarding the setting. The autism in the deep ocean is huge, it seems. Have you even played the game? Decomposing random parts of the setting and requiring them to follow exactly our history is lowbrow analysis. Stick to Morrowind, kid.

 

[vivec]

Can someone provide me an actual in-game instance where you feel that you *must* take care of your schizophrenia *now*!!!! I only played till the end of chapter 2 (motivation to play ahead died way before that really), so I have no idea if something happens after that which compels you to look into this mystery.

As Spirit Eater curse was being mentioned, I must add that it was one of the best ways I have seen in RPGs to make the game move forward. Just like the corporeal curse in Morrowind it forced you to accelerate the search for a cure providing an in-game explanation as to why the story was important to your character.

F:NV, to compare with MOTB did *NOT* motivate you to seek revenge at all. In fact, it allowed you to completely forget that storyline and choose your own path in the world.

These two variations are, in my opinion, really good ways to deliver a story and use the strengths of the core gameplay; MOTB actually makes your characters *feel* ill at ease with the growing penalties and HP loss that can NOT be cured after a while (as you frantically spend money making potions) thus using the game mechanics to its advantage. F:NV uses the sandbox to expand the storyline from one linear plot into a completely non-linear territory *still* giving you a great reason to pursue revenge and the central plot.

Does PoE do that to any appreciable level?

I think not as far as I played the game. It fails decisively on the front of urgency or motivation; you have no clear grievances, no clear targets, and no clear profits to be had from the story goals. You are forced to play along the story *only* because that is the sole path offered anyway. None of the side quests change anything about the main story appreciably; these quests do not open hidden alternatives or close decisive choices in the character development. The game itself seems to be hollowborn in that sense.

I blame the mechanics and the writing for that. The mechanics are a dead pile of percentages that delivers a very samey feeling. All the beautiful aesthetics of the game are lost on the limited scope of what one can achieve in the game. The complete dissociation of the mechanics from the story in most cases leads to even further loss of motive to invest into developing characters, you can't use your spells/abilities in any meaningful way to affect the non-combat part of the game (anyone remember VMTB?).

All of this leads to shallow and boring gameplay, which few but the "hardcore" (read stone hearted) can play. Maybe, the game was developed for them after all.