Preview Pillars of Eternity: The White March Gameplay Footage at Gamescom 2015

[Morality Games]

Because NWN2 OC was a mediocre game at best and MOTB is one of the best RPGs ever. Both developed by the same company. Can you really not see any similarities??

One problem is that White March isn't a sequel. Obsidian's novelistic approach worked well in Mask of the Betrayer because they could use the collective knowledge and experience of the players to build on narrative elements that had been established previously in the OC. For example, rather than having a huge part of the plot committed to explaining the Sword of Gith and building up its use against the King of Shadows, they could focus on a character drama with existential themes.

Technically there's nothing to stop them from doing something similar with White March.

 

[GloomFrost]

One problem is that White March isn't a sequel. Obsidian's novelistic approach worked well in Mask of the Betrayer because they could use the collective knowledge and experience of the players to build on narrative elements that had been established previously in the OC. For example, rather than having a huge part of the plot committed to explaining the Sword of Gith and building up its use against the King of Shadows, they could focus on a character drama with existential themes.

Technically there's nothing to stop them from doing something similar with White March.

I know that White March isnt a sequel. But come on now how many people had high hopes for MOTB? For example imagine that you just finished NWN2 OC and were not pleased with it and then I told you: "dont worry, the next expansion pack will have some of the best dialogues and plot in an entire genre, perhaps even better then Planscape!" Then I m sure you would tell me to get lost (I mean how could a simple expansion of a shitty game could even get close to the one and mighty PLANESCAPE: TORMENT). But in the end we have MOTB which is a gem of RPGs and the same thing theoretically could happen to the White March. Also like I said before both games were developed by the same developers.

 

[DeepOcean]

theoretically could happen to the White March.

Nope, can't happen, Obsidian already said this is more like Tales of the Sword Coast ice edition. Expect some exterior areas and a somewhat long dungeon with nice 2d graphix and plenty of trash mobs to kill, that's it.

Double nope, quite a few people that worked on MOTB aren't on Obsidian anymore. Obsidian can find some decent writers but Avellone and Ziets had their own styles that can't be easily replaced, PoE already had a new lead writer trying to implement PST and MotB ideas and the result was disappointing to say the least.

 

[Infinitron]

Actually, the real reason White March can't be MotB is that its development time is much, much shorter. MotB came out a full year after NWN2.

Expect some exterior areas and a somewhat long dungeon with nice 2d graphix and plenty of trash mobs to kill, that's it.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-discussion-thread.100006/page-6#post-3978027

 

[Roguey]

When it's all said and done, the White March will have ended up taking a year (or something close to it).

PoE already had a new lead writer trying to implement PST and MotB ideas and the result was disappointing to say the least.

The funny thing here is that Fenstermaker also worked on MotB. He was specifically responsible for Ashenwood and the Red Wizard Academy.

 

[Infinitron]

When it's all said and done, the White March will have ended up taking a year (or something close to it).

Development on Part 2 is already underway, though: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...discussion-thread.100006/page-28#post-4062566

I don't think it will take as long to release as this part.

 

[Roguey]

You're forgetting that development on Part 2 is already underway: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...discussion-thread.100006/page-28#post-4062566

I don't think it will take as long to release as this part.

I still predict four or five months. (plus additional months to finally patch it to completion)

 

[GloomFrost]

Nope, can't happen, Obsidian already said this is more like Tales of the Sword Coast ice edition. Expect some exterior areas and a somewhat long dungeon with nice 2d graphix and plenty of trash mobs to kill, that's it.

Double nope, quite a few people that worked on MOTB aren't on Obsidian anymore. Obsidian can find some decent writers but Avellone and Ziets had their own styles that can't be easily replaced, PoE already had a new lead writer trying to implement PST and MotB ideas and the result was disappointing to say the least.

Ok fine, fair enough. Avellone and Ziets can not be replaced but obsidian can still make something like hordes of the underdark or even heart of winter ( which I love, the town of lonelywood theme and gloomfrost caves are beautifull). Also you are forgetting that this is only part 1 of the expansion.

 

[Rake]

Also like I said before both games were developed by the same developers.

Ziets? Saunders? Avellone? WHO are these same developers exactly? The only common this expansion has with MOTB is that it's being coded in the same building.
EDIT: Ah, i see. Now the bar has gone as low as HotU. Yes, something similar is posible.
In fact something like HoW is what i expect. Of course it will be a HoW with PoE bad combat but that ship has sailed a long time ago.
The only way for PoE series to produce a "great classic" is for them to up their storytelling to Avellone levels. And they no longer have the ability to do that. FFS, by now CDPR had surpassed them as far as storytelling/writing goes, and that's coming from someone that considers the Witcher games shit

 

[GloomFrost]

Ziets? Saunders? Avellone? WHO are these same developers exactly? The only common this expansion has with MOTB is that it's being coded in the same building

Obsidian are more then capable to make an excellent rpg without Avellone or Zeits ( alpha protocol). Also check my comment above.

 

[Rake]

Obsidian are more then capable to make an excellent rpg without Avellone or Zeits ( alpha protocol). Also check my comment above.

Alpha Protocol was Avellone's game. Vanila New Vegas is the pinnacle of what current Obsidian can make writting wise, and i don't consider this good enough. Also check my comment above.

 

[Infinitron]

The only common this expansion has with MOTB is that it's being coded in the same building.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. In truth, if you look at the credits, it's kind of like Pillars of Eternity and Torment: Tides of Numenera are the twin descendants of Mask of the Betrayer. Quite an influential title it turned out to be for the expansion to a meh game.

(Torment did get the more famous people. It kind of reminds me of MST3K's twin successors, RiffTrax and the lesser-known Cinematic Titanic.)

 

[commie]

You can't improve on perfection, but Obsidian clearly are going for it.

 

[Duraframe300]

Ziets? Saunders? Avellone? WHO are these same developers exactly? The only common this expansion has with MOTB is that it's being coded in the same building.
EDIT: Ah, i see. Now the bar has gone as low as HotU. Yes, something similar is posible.
In fact something like HoW is what i expect. Of course it will be a HoW with PoE bad combat but that ship has sailed a long time ago.
The only way for PoE series to produce a "great classic" is for them to up their storytelling to Avellone levels. And they no longer have the ability to do that. FFS, by now CDPR had surpassed them as far as storytelling/writing goes, and that's coming from someone that considers the Witcher games shit

Eric Fenstermaker, Matt MacLean, Jeff Husges, Olivier Pougnand are MOTB designers\ Writers still at Obsidian.

Outside of the design department (art, production, programming) the majority is as well.

Alpha Protocol is a good example with most designer\ writers there not at Obsidian. That said they didn't exactly go for inxile. One of them is working on witcher though

 

[GloomFrost]

Alpha Protocol was Avellone's game. Vanila New Vegas is the pinnacle of what current Obsidian can make writting wise, and i don't consider this good enough. Also check my comment above.

Yeah I was wrong about AP. But still I personally like both HOW and HOTU so I will be more then satisfied. As for "pinnacle" of obsidian writing I totally disagree. The best writing and story telling by far obsidian showed in KOTOR 2. There is no point in comparing them to CDRP coz huge chunk of all writing in all 3 games was just taken from the book saga, as well as characters, lore and some plotlines. (I have read the books before w1 came out btw).

 

[Duraframe300]

Also I've seen Travis Stout mentioned a few times before.

Probably not the best example to make fun of Fenstermaker as both their first big projects didn't exactly pan out well. Travis was the Lead Writer for Assassins Creed Unity which didn't exactly get much writing praise either

 

[Roguey]

That's a bit of an exaggeration. In truth, if you look at the credits, it's kind of like Pillars of Eternity and Torment: Tides of Numenera are the twin descendants of Mask of the Betrayer. Quite an influential title it turned out to be for the expansion to a meh game.

(Torment did get the more famous people. It kind of reminds me of MST3K's twin successors, RiffTrax and the lesser-known Cinematic Titanic.)

More convenient to approach one of those from the other direction http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/pillars-of-eternity/credits

People who have worked on this game have also collaborated on the creation of the following games:

Dungeon Siege III, a group of 39 people
Fallout: New Vegas, a group of 36 people
Alpha Protocol, a group of 32 people
Neverwinter Nights 2: Gold, a group of 28 people
Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer, a group of 22 people
Neverwinter Nights 2: Storm of Zehir, a group of 20 people
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II - The Sith Lords, a group of 18 people
Fallout: New Vegas - Dead Money, a group of 17 people
Fallout: New Vegas - Lonesome Road, a group of 17 people
Dungeon Siege III: Treasures of the Sun, a group of 16 people
Fallout: New Vegas - Old World Blues, a group of 16 people
Fallout: New Vegas - Honest Hearts, a group of 16 people
Icewind Dale, a group of 11 people
Icewind Dale: Heart of Winter, a group of 9 people

 

[Rake]

Yeah I was wrong about AP. But still I personally like both HOW and HOTU so I will be more then satisfied. As for "pinnacle" of obsidian writing I totally disagree. The best writing and story telling by far obsidian showed in KOTOR 2. There is no point in comparing them to CDRP coz huge chunk of all writing in all 3 games was just taken from the book saga, as well as characters, lore and some plotlines. (I have read the books before w1 came out btw).

You misunderstood. MotB and KotOR 2 are by far the best games Obsidian created and better than anything CDPR has done. But the persons responsible for these games no longer work at Obsidian, and Obsidian themselves cannot reach that pinacle of writing again. The current writers at Obsidian had produced mediocre effords like New Vegas and PoE. I have no reason to believe they are capable of making another MotB.

 

[Infinitron]

Roguey Too bad we don't have that for Torment yet.

Re: Heart of Winter

I've mentioned this before, but it's funny how easy it would be to transpose that expansion to Eora with few changes. Replace the Ten Towns with some remote Dyrwood province, the Uthgardt barbarians with Glanfathans, Tempus/Tempos with Galawain, use the setting's soul-based metaphysics to explain Wylfdene's "resurrection". It was PoE before PoE.

 

[Duraframe300]

You misunderstood. MotB and KotOR 2 are by far the best games Obsidian created and better than anything CDPR has done. But the persons responsible for these games no longer work at Obsidian, and Obsidian themselves cannot reach that pinacle of writing again. The current writers at Obsidian had produced mediocre effords like New Vegas and PoE. I have no reason to believe they are capable of making another MotB.

Yeah, one of them was busy working on Dragon Age 2

 

[racofer]

It's impressive from Obsidian's part how they are never satisfied with making 10 shitty games: they're always striving for one more.

 

[Rake]

Infinitron Roguey
MotB strenghts were it's writing, plot, quest structure. From the games credits, both Producer and Assistant Producer are gone, Lead Designer and Creative Lead are gone, and the person that wrote the two best characters plus a couple of other designers are gone.
The people that did the programing, the combat design and the animations don't matter at all in this case. PoE failings and it's expansion propable failings won't be because of programing and animation issues.

 

[Rake]

Yeah, one of them was busy working on Dragon Age 2

Who? Because the one i think you meant didn't had a great impact in MotB and KotOR 2 quality. The games would be just as good without him.

 

[GloomFrost]

Yeah, one of them was busy working on Dragon Age 2

I do not believe that!

 

[Duraframe300]

Who?

Tony Evans (Who was also a designer/writer on KOTOR II)

Though in Retrospect you probably meant only Kevin Saunders and George Ziets. Question here though Kevin Saunders isn't a big writer either AFAIK (Amazing Project Director/producer though). So, you're pretty much left with George Ziets for that argument (aside from Avellone), no?

And George Ziets has Dungeon Siege III on his resumee, which while I like it very very much isn't that revered on writing either. And Avellone wrote NWN2's companions.

Man, its like people fuck up sometimes.