Pillars of Eternity Thread [Pre-Expansion]

[Bubbles]

Here's a little kiddie experiment for you: turn off the lights in your room, light a candle, and see if the candle exclusively directs it's light at the ceiling.

Fire usually doesn't burn on a wick at the top of a brazier, but within it. Most candles also don't have the light-directing prongs you see on the rim of those braziers.

 

[roshan]

They shouldn't cast light only in one direction, that pic really doesn't have the best lighting/shadows, but it's nowhere near as big a deal as the whiner is making it out to be nor does the whole game have poor lighting.




I actually think it makes more sense for what's in the fog of war to actually be darker instead of slightly tinted. Just because BG2 did it that way and you seem to have got used to it/liked it doesn't mean it's an absolute best choice all around and any variation is bad.

edit: Also the PoE fog of war pic is still distinguishable.

On what basis is it "better"? Remember we are talking here about RPG's that are meant to have tactical combat, hence the priority should be clarity, information and feedback for the players to assist in strategic decision making, and overall fun and non-frustrating gameplay (giving accurate information allows players to make decisions regarding where to go instantly, minimizing backtracking etc.).

And if you are not going to prioritize information, why even make an isometric RPG? Why not go first person? This entire game is a clusterfuck of conflicting design elements.

 

[eric__s]

Did anyone see this? I thought this was pretty cool, did RPGCodex ask Obsidian to include this or did they do this on their own?

We asked them to, yeah. It was really cool of them to include it on such a short notice.

Yeah, pretty considerate. Obsidian just made my cool list.

Spoiler

They were already on it.

How long do the different races live in this game? Do they have standard fantasy lifespans? One character was talking about a period of time she'd been doing something and I was wondering what portion of her life it represented.

 

[Bubbles]

On what basis is it "better"? Remember we are talking here about RPG's that are meant to have tactical combat, hence the priority should be clarity, information and feedback for the players to assist in strategic decision making, and overall fun and non-frustrating gameplay (giving accurate information allows players to make decisions regarding where to go instantly, minimizing backtracking etc.).

And if you are not going to prioritize information, why even make an isometric RPG? Why not go first person? This entire game is a clusterfuck of conflicting design elements.

We're talking about the Fog of War being slightly too dark for your tastes, right?

 

[Coyote]

Played this yesterday, some thoughts:

-Game looks great, no complaints here.
-Haven't encountered any bugs so far aside from a missing reference in the combat log. And the game plays great even on my crappy laptop. Short load times, not a memory hog, can alt-tab in and out instantaneously, no frame rate drops, etc.
-Definitely plays like an IE game in terms of moment-to-moment gameplay outside of combat (exploration, dialogues, looting, etc.).
-I like that it appears to have taken the BG1 approach towards the world map. Even if BG2 was a tighter experience overall, I always missed that element going out and finding areas on your own.
-Game takes a leaf from KotC et al's book and gives you links/tooltips to find out more specific information about what abilities do and such, which is good. However, it's a bit inconsistent about it. There have been at least a couple of times where I've moused over some opaquely-named ability to find out what it does, but the game doesn't give me any more information. Also, the journal seems to be missing some obvious entries under the combat section, such as "sneak attacks". Might have just missed it though.
-Started a game in expert mode, but I think I'm going to disable it that means I'll be able to see an indicator for the AoE of my spells and combat abilities. Giving you that information was one of the very few improvements the NWNs made over the IE games, and it's doubly necessary here since AoEs can vary in size based on character stats.
-Obsidian included a lot of options to let the player configure how the game plays (e.g., toggles for whether you're given information about the requirements and effects of dialogue options), which is a good thing that goes overlooked by a surprisingly large number of developers.
-Combat felt rather clusterfucky at first, but it was a bit better by the time I got used to it and gained a few characters. I'll withhold judgment for now, especially since low-level combat often doesn't reflect the quality of higher-level combat in this sort of game.
-The combat log seems to be missing a lot of information that ought to be there. For example, sometimes I'll use a spell, and it'll say that I hit 3 enemies with it, but there won't be any indication of which ones or how much damage it did. Also, it's a minor annoyance, but it would be nice to be able to select a character through the combat log, especially since you have to expand it to 3+ times the default size to get much use out of it.

Only had a short while to play (got to Gilded Vale, picked up a few characters, and did the quest for Calisca's sister), so these are just my first impressions.

 

[Haba]

Dude, these two NPCs are not the couple from the story, and Obsidian did not design them.

They just happen to be two separate female NPC characters who live in a small hut with a single bed... Sure.

Obsidian might not have designed them but the shitty writing is all theirs. 'cept homophobia is brilliantly replaced by wizardphobia!

 

[Zombra]

No, putting in anti-cheat limitations to a single player PC game in order to avoid someone cheating it is a waste of development time. In the case of that limitation I commented on, the player has to specifically intend to cheat a given system in the game (ie withhold points to save scumm) and a person who is willing to do such can easily cheat the game through other means (hex edit, opening up the editor, running someones save editor, using a console command, etc...). The fact is, even the below average intellect can cheat the game regardless of them putting in such a game limitation. So what purpose does it serve? It is silly.

It's not a question of intelligence; it's a question of convenience. It's incredibly convenient in some other games I could mention to keep a few skill points "banked" and spend them as challenges come up. I do this naturally in some games because the convenience of the system conditions me to this behavior. If I had to open up a freakin hex editor to cheat in this way, I would not do it because that would be a fucking pain in the ass. POE's system serves the purpose of not putting the cheat right in the game for you. It's not a "waste of time" to have it be this way, either; it's not like they first designed the system to let you spend points at any time and then they had to go back and change everything. They just built it so you level up, boom, you go to the points screen and spend them (or not), and then when you get enough xp you can level up again, and access that screen again. Not being able to spend points in the meantime isn't some huge extra feature that they had to figure out a way to add. Actually, being able to access the level up screen at any time might have cost more dev resources.

The only legitimate objection I can see to this system is that people who want to cheat their way around it have to go to some trouble to do so.

 

[Bubbles]

-The combat log seems to be missing a lot of information that ought to be there. For example, sometimes I'll use a spell, and it'll say that I hit 3 enemies with it, but there won't be any indication of which ones or how much damage it did.

You can click on those lines to expand the log.

 

[Grunker]

It is probably the worst character system I have ever seen. I already miss D:OS.

 

[imweasel]

character system is shit

Yep, it is pretty awful. It feels like it came straight out of the blender. It is probably the worst character system I have ever seen. I already miss D:OS.

At least the rest is ok. I am pushing ever forward...

Comparing D:OS combat to this is valid, being turnbased it's no surprise D:OS had superior combat. But you can't compare the character systems of both; D: OS was open ended skill based, while PoE is class based. And sure I would have preferred they used D&D 5e or Pathfinder, but this is not bad at all.

TB, RTwP as well as classless and class systems are all equally good IMO. So, I think the comparison is fine. But if that is too abstract for you: Baldur's Gate has a much better character system too. Even Dragon Age: Origins is better in that respect.

I don't think the game is bad, but the shitty character system is really a thorn in my side.

In some ways it is refreshing to have a brand new system to play with.

Agreed, I also enjoy new systems. But only if they aren't shit.

It is probably the worst character system I have ever seen. I already miss D:OS.

Hyperbole. But it is still shit.

 

[Monkeysattva]

The setting is at the same time vague and stupid. The pacing is atrocious. About five hours in. Will see how this goes, but it doesn't look promising.

 

[roshan]

We're talking about the Fog of War being slightly too dark for your tastes, right?

It's not an issue of taste, rather, of functionality and practicality.

 

[Bubbles]

Baldur's Gate has a much better character system too. Even Dragon Age: Origins is better in that respect.

Why?

 

[Kingston]

Lighting in that PoE pic isn't really well done. but saying the game overall looks worse than bg1/2 P:T or ToEE based on that single pic is a pretty dumb statement, especially since the BG pic he posted has p shitty lighting as well and i've seen a lot of footage where PoE has really fucking good lighting.

I didn't say anything about what the game looks like overall. I just commented on that pic.

It looks like those upwards-facing braziers are casting their light upwards. Disgusting.

That's not how light works. It bounces off surfaces and shit.

 

[imweasel]

Baldur's Gate has a much better character system too. Even Dragon Age: Origins is better in that respect.

Why?

Why do you think it is so good?

 

[Bubbles]

Why do you think it is so good?

I haven't beaten the game or played most of the classes yet, so I won't judge. Why do you think it is so bad?

 

[Zombra]

How long do the different races live in this game? Do they have standard fantasy lifespans? One character was talking about a period of time she'd been doing something and I was wondering what portion of her life it represented.

RACES AND SUB-RACES

Aumaua
Aumaua natural lifespans are typically between 70 and 115 years.

Dwarves
Their natural lifespan is typically between 110 and 190 years.

Elves
Their natural lifespan is typically 200-310 years.

Humans (“Folk”)
They run the middle of the road when it comes to physical prowess – stronger than orlan, weaker than aumaua – and as a standard live 60-100 years.

Orlans
The natural lifespan of an orlan is typically between 50 and 80 years.

Godlike
The life expectancy of godlike tends to be similar to that of the mother’s and father’s race.

 

[Xenich]

It's not a question of intelligence; it's a question of convenience. It's incredibly convenient in some other games I could mention to keep a few skill points "banked" and spend them as challenges come up. I do this naturally in some games because the convenience of the system conditions me to this behavior. If I had to open up a freakin hex editor to cheat in this way, I would not do it because that would be a fucking pain in the ass. POE's system serves the purpose of not putting the cheat right in the game for you. It's not a "waste of time" to have it be this way, either; it's not like they first designed the system to let you spend points at any time and then they had to go back and change everything. They just built it so you level up, boom, you go to the points screen and spend them (or not), and then when you get enough xp you can level up again, and access that screen again. Not being able to spend points in the meantime isn't some huge extra feature that they had to figure out a way to add. Actually, being able to access the level up screen at any time might have cost more dev resources.

The only legitimate objection I can see to this system is that people who want to cheat their way around it have to go to some trouble to do so.

Well, an argument of laziness is an argument, not a good one, but it is an argument. I find it rather sad these days that the means of spending development time to detour a player is founded on the fact that they are lazy and with just a little effort put in their way, they won't want to cheat.

Here is a clue. For me, I don't cheat because to do so in a single player game is to cheat ones self. I don't need a nanny developer trying to protect me from save scumming or the like. As I said, I do not find small amount of detours in time to be a sufficient deterrent, maybe because I don't see a 30 second task of running an editor to be so much time that my lazy persona would be dissuaded? I mean, if I can't find the TV remote, I don't sit there and watch what the TV is on because.. darn it... it would just be too much energy to get up and walk up to the TV to change the channel!

I find your reasoning one of an excuse, a grasping reasoning process to justify wasting time in development to nanny players who are too lazy to manage themselves. I find this development mentality to be very "console like" in nature.

The fact that you had to turn the argument into a "anyone who object to such likely wants to cheat" is an obvious sign of that failing argument and indicative of the same reasoning a race card argument makes.

 

[Zombra]

Well, an argument of laziness is an argument, not a good one, but it is an argument. I find it rather sad these days that the means of spending development time to detour a player is founded on the fact that they are lazy and with just a little effort put in their way, they won't want to cheat.

Maybe I'm the only person in the world who prefers convenience to inconvenience, but I don't think so.

The fact that you had to turn the argument into a "anyone who object to such likely wants to cheat" is an obvious sign of that failing argument.

Then what exactly is your real problem with this?
Why do you want it to be incredibly convenient to cheat? "Wasted development time"? Horseshit, it took them zero extra time to implement it this way. If there's another reason, I'd love to hear it.

 

[Darth Roxor]

and thus I hit my first gamebreaking bug

each time I leave Raedric's Keep after killing Raedric, the game crashes, no matter which exit I pick

i have no saves from before that

thanks obsidian

 

[Kattze]

I think imweasel means to say he enjoyed how the other games played in combat better than this. I haven't really play DA:O so can't comment on that, but the Infinity Engine games did have one advantage in that there was no running in combat. It could make exploration tedious, but in combat it meant better paced encounters. That is, enemies not running out of the radius of your fireball when you cast it. Arrows could also be useful as you had enough time before enemies closed to melee to launch a few volleys.

 

[Kattze]

and thus I hit my first gamebreaking bug

each time I leave Raedric's Keep after killing Raedric, the game crashes, no matter which exit I pick

i have no saves from before that

thanks obsidian

But is it still a better game than Blackguards II?

 

[Xenich]

Well, an argument of laziness is an argument, not a good one, but it is an argument. I find it rather sad these days that the means of spending development time to detour a player is founded on the fact that they are lazy and with just a little effort put in their way, they won't want to cheat.

Maybe I'm the only person in the world who prefers convenience to inconvenience, but I don't think so.

Well, there are valid reasons for not wanting to spend ALL your points right away, but by implementing such a nanny feature, the player is forced to live by the lowest common denominator (ie that by allowing someone to open it up again, it would mean they would cheat). I call that an inconvenience and a piss poor development practice.

he fact that you had to turn the argument into a "anyone who object to such likely wants to cheat" is an obvious sign of that failing argument.

Then what exactly is your real problem with this?
Why do you want it to be the easy-cheat way? "Wasted development time"? Horseshit, it took them zero extra time to implement it this way. If there's another reason, I'd love to hear it.

There you go again, now on the attack to make it appear as if by thinking this feature is bad, it is because I want to cheat. As I said, there are other reasons for not wanting to immediately place your points. In some games, I have held off to think about how to develop my character. In some games, I might hold off to wait till I got back to town, to purchase new spells, armor, etc... There are many reasons to not want to spend all of your points instantly the moment you level and it has nothing to do with "wanting to cheat the system". Thing is, that choice is taken away, because everyone is a dirty cheater and they must stop them from cheating with "lazy blocks" to dissuade the players form wanting to get off their lazy ass.. Oh I mean, so it is more convenient.

 

[imweasel]

I haven't beaten the game or played most of the classes yet, so I won't judge. Why do you think it is so bad?

So you don't know why it is good, but you're gonna defend it shitiness anyway, amirite? Schäm dich.



For starters, the attribute system is crap, it doesn't have any potency. Spending attribute points only minimally changes your build (because balance, don't let the player deviate too far from standard settings). Not to mention that mixing points and percentages is kind of dumb and not elegant.

Even Skyrim does it better.

More later, I am still analyzing it.

 

[Drax]

Spoilers, spoilers never change...