Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Interview Piranha Bytes Interview on Risen 2: Dark Waters

visions

Arcane
Joined
Jun 10, 2007
Messages
1,801
Location
here
Achievement unlocked: pwned by Konjad.
 

Disconnected

Scholar
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
609
I guess I'll be getting it from GOG, assuming I live long enough. Fucking Steam.

As for the freedom hating thing... It's not like the first one gave you a lot of it either. It just managed to offer a good illusion of freedom, combined with making the first real choice in the game the most important one in the entire game. I don't know how they offer less freedom without turning it into a cutscene, so I'm assuming they're just trying to improve the illusion. And that's perfectly fine with me. I just hope they make the playthrough-defining (and make them even more defining) choices come as early as possible again, and integrate character development even more into the storyline choices the player makes. Those were two of the best things about Risen, in my opinion.

I gather Risen looked & ran like ass on console, but with a few ini tweaks it looked fine on PC. The worst thing about it was the lighting, but less than a handful of 3D games I'm aware of have managed to get lighting remotely right, so I'm guessing it's more a technical than budgetary limitation.
I'd much rather they spend money on simulating life on the islands. Really simulating, not "our NPCs are radiantly scripted to raid barrels on street corners for randomly spawned food & then stare at walls for hours." Risen had the rare, rare quality that NPCs felt enough like they were actually doing sensible stuff, that they didn't all come across as the usual forgettable quest-dispensers. If there's one thing I would spend oodles on, it would be improving that. It's pretty much the defining quality of the games, so why not push it as far as possible? It's not like they can compete with world-size or super-graphics or inflated short-stories worth of player-dating the fictional emotionally damaged.

Gordon Freeman said:
But not Steam. I'd rather cut off my testis, then register an account on Steam.

Because why just fail when you can add self-mutilation? :lol:
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium

P. banal
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
13,696
Location
Third World
Every thread about Risen 2 has somebody whining about Steam...Just shut up and get the free version.

It's a pirates game after all. :M
 

Shannow

Waster of Time
Joined
Sep 15, 2006
Messages
6,386
Location
Finnegan's Wake
Excidium said:
Every thread about Risen 2 has somebody whining about Steam...Just shut up and get the free version.

It's a pirates game after all. :M
First line made me :x
Second line made me :yeah:
 

Kraszu

Prophet
Joined
May 27, 2005
Messages
3,253
Location
Poland
Gordon Freeman said:
Volrath said:
Gordon Freeman said:
Looks like a nice game. Too bad I will be unable to buy it, due to it's Steam requirement.
If you get it from the bay of pirates then you won't have to endure that fascist DRM system bro.
I know, I know.
But Gothic 2 NOTR have been the best game I have ever played.
It just pains me, that I have no other choice but to pirate them.
Just give me the most nazi DRM scheme you can think of, be it secu-rom or starforce. I can endure it for PB.
But not Steam. I'd rather cut off my testis, then register an account on Steam.

Buy the game, and crack it. problem solved.

the game starts with a small world that becomes bigger and more open the longer you play
micmu said:
So, exactly like any other action game of similar type, then. Thanks but no thanks

How is that like every other arpg? They turn into open world with C&C after linear beginning?
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,898
It's odd how he kept dodging the question about skill-based dialogues when other interviews have already confirmed the presence of silver tongue and intimidate. Questions sent too long ago?

Also a damn shame how they spent all that extra money on graphics and it still looks rather low budget and the art style looks worse too.
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
the game starts with a small world that becomes bigger and more open the longer you play

Kraszu because this shit means that Risen 2 will be like Ass Greed with its retarded barriers thanks to cretins who get lost when the game lets them run free?
 

Kraszu

Prophet
Joined
May 27, 2005
Messages
3,253
Location
Poland
MetalCraze said:
the game starts with a small world that becomes bigger and more open the longer you play

Kraszu because this shit means that Risen 2 will be like Ass Greed with its retarded barriers thanks to cretins who get lost when the game lets them run free?

No it doesn't, they had said that it starts on small island, no reason to have invisible barriers. They might just look at a way to introduce players that are used to linear games, to open world with C&C design. Some people who had played PB game but say Oblivion could assume that joining guild isn't important, or that there will be easy way to get out of monastery if they let themselves be captured because they are expected to be protected from having consequences of they choices by designers.

PB aren't complex games so I have trouble believing that people are really unable to grasp them, for example many people that go to dangerous area, and get killed just assume that the game was badly decided because they are used to be hand hold through the game. It is pretty ignorant of them but that doesn't mean that at least big portion of them is inherently unable to grasp advantages of such a design.

People have natural trouble with changing what they are used to, plenty of codexers also was stubbornly using moust + wasd to control Gothic, despite the control not working like that at all, so they did complain without trying to play with keyboard default setting to see how it works. Say what you want about it but it does work better then mouse + wsad.
 
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,876,106
Location
Glass Fields, Ruins of Old Iran
commie said:
Crooked Bee said:
Overwhelmingly complex, the beginning of Risen? Oh for fuck's sake.

Yeah, it even warned you not to go through the cave, leaving ONE (1) path to the crossroads where the guy told you what was in each direction and even gave a basic map!

Heh. I wanted to go to the bandits' village, and the sentinel gave me precise instructions as to not wander around because of the swamp monsters, and stay on the road / planks. Later on, another bandit warns me not to keep going into the town's direction or the faction there (mages, I think) would conscript me into service. The beginning is very friendly as long as you have the necessary skills to go buy groceries and come back in one piece IRL.
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
Kraszu said:
PB aren't complex games so I have trouble believing that people are really unable to grasp them

The majority of people have a natural trouble wanting to grasp something, not changing something.
You put them in a game world, you give them general directions without any quest compasses and solutions and it really frustrates them because in their opinion they are wasting time looking for stuff:

"Why should I go look for solutions to the quest when a quest giver in some overhyped AAA "RPG" explains to me my options right from the start and I just follow the quest compass to the dude which ends quest" is exactly how they think.

And that's exactly why Risen and Divinity 2 were much less popular in comparison with FO3/NV, TW2, ME2, DAO etc. which all came out within nearly the same time frame.

It's a given now that Piranha won't just go with slowly introducing these people into a better game design. Because that won't cut it. Majority of people don't want to play games, majority of people want to select dialogue options and watch the next scripted event take place because that doesn't require any effort.

That's why there will be some dumbing down.
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
Jesus Christ, can we ever have a game discussion thread without people crying like bitches over Steam? We get it already, keep your fucking tears to one of the other dozen threads about it.

That aside, while I personally didn't find the start of Risen 'overly complex' I can see where it would be for people new to Gothic games. There isn't too much direction in terms of what to do when you run into the Don's lackey at the hut and he gives you the option of going to the camp, the town, etc. Obviously a lot of us like open world choices but -- especially given a multiplatform game -- you have to accept they need to dumb some things down for a wider audience. Still, I'd rather have that and them address the horrible ending chapter that Risen had rather than just have them repeat the same mistake. However, I cringe when I read:

So where did that budget go? Into all these graphic assets.

Derp. Much rather have a dated looking game with poor animations and spend the money on quest/story/mechanics development.
 

Oriebam

Formerly M4AE1BR0-something
Joined
Jul 6, 2011
Messages
6,193
Was just waiting for an excuse to say the tutorial/lack of tutorial in Risen is shitty, although this probably isn't relevant what the PB dude quote
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
Exactly. It's pretty funny since that's all she is, too. I actually thought she might be part of some plot point later in the game but... nope... she just swept the farmer's porch at the Don's camp the rest of the game.
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
It appears the situation is worse than Piranha expected.

People don't just get lost in the open world, they are also unable to find a tutorial inside a tutorial.
 

Kraszu

Prophet
Joined
May 27, 2005
Messages
3,253
Location
Poland
MetalCraze said:
It's a given now that Piranha won't just go with slowly introducing these people into a better game design. Because that won't cut it. Majority of people don't want to play games, majority of people want to select dialogue options and watch the next scripted event take place because that doesn't require any effort.

That's why there will be some dumbing down.

We will see, they still have pretty big fan base that they would not want to loose, and I doubt that they have AAA marketing money to go all derp. From reading they post on forum it still seem like they want to work on decent games.
 

godsend1989

Scholar
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Messages
270
Divinity: Original Sin
They are trying to make the game accessible to a wider audience implementing high-tech graphics for 13 years old brats.

As long as they don`t dumpdown the gameplay and i doubt they will, i don`t really care.

Also the linear beginning and more freedom and areas to explorer later seems reasonable and natural i have to admit that in Risen 1 was a bit confusing for newbies at the start, no hand-holding.
 

torpid

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
1,099
Location
Isma's Grove
I don't know what to think anymore. They're using all the bad PR talking points that you'd normally associate with say, Bioware, but they're also hedging and saying they don't believe in "boring tutorials". It's pretty clear in which direction they're taking the game, so really all we can hope for is that they don't take it too far down that road, and that things like a better balance of quests throughout the game will compensate for the decline.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,898
MetalCraze said:
The majority of people have a natural trouble wanting to grasp something, not changing something.
You put them in a game world, you give them general directions without any quest compasses and solutions and it really frustrates them because in their opinion they are wasting time looking for stuff:

"Why should I go look for solutions to the quest when a quest giver in some overhyped AAA "RPG" explains to me my options right from the start and I just follow the quest compass to the dude which ends quest" is exactly how they think.

And that's exactly why Risen and Divinity 2 were much less popular in comparison with FO3/NV, TW2, ME2, DAO etc. which all came out within nearly the same time frame.
Risen has green dots on the map that tell you where you need to go next, though I've noticed quite a few people don't know they exist even though all you have to do is click on an individual quest then click on the quest map filter to get them to display. They even released a patch that improved their placement in some quests. I actually needed to use it at one point near the end because some guy told me to go talk to Ethan but no such character existed (he had been renamed Vince; I blame this all on Rhianna Pratchett regardless of whether or not she was responsible for the renames).
 

Kraszu

Prophet
Joined
May 27, 2005
Messages
3,253
Location
Poland
Roguey said:
Risen has green dots on the map that tell you where you need to go next, though I've noticed quite a few people don't know they exist even though all you have to do is click on an individual quest then click on the quest map filter to get them to display.

They were still pretty general, you had to find your way there on your own, and with all the mountains.
 

Konjad

Patron
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
4,218
Location
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
yea, hopefully they will make a proper quest compass this time, with green line or arrow on the screen which tells you which way to go
 

Kraszu

Prophet
Joined
May 27, 2005
Messages
3,253
Location
Poland
I would like to be more hardcore then in Gothic, you buy maps or get a map with X on it, but they should not show where you are.

And for some locations you could only get description without any markers on map, and don't make them dull like go north either, describe the road, and what to look for etc.
 

commie

The Last Marxist
Patron
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
1,865,249
Location
Where one can weep in peace
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Kraszu said:
MetalCraze said:
the game starts with a small world that becomes bigger and more open the longer you play

Kraszu because this shit means that Risen 2 will be like Ass Greed with its retarded barriers thanks to cretins who get lost when the game lets them run free?

No it doesn't, they had said that it starts on small island, no reason to have invisible barriers. They might just look at a way to introduce players that are used to linear games, to open world with C&C design.

You mean like what Arcania did? Because that's EXACTLY how that game started and continued, with areas being unlocked in a linear fashion, allowing little 'play pens' where you could roam around in and yet not find anything too nasty, as you'd have to have reached a certain level before you could enter anyway. By the end of each section, you'd have gotten by default a few levels higher when guard X would unlock the gate for you so you'd meet the tougher creatures in the next area only when you'd be tough enough to face them. :retarded:
 

commie

The Last Marxist
Patron
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
1,865,249
Location
Where one can weep in peace
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Regdar said:
In b4 quest compass is announced for Risen 2.

Konjad said:
yea, hopefully they will make a proper quest compass this time, with green line or arrow on the screen which tells you which way to go

Old technology. Don't you know that the bread crumb trail is the way to go now?
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom