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Playing The Witcher helped me understand the Codex!

racofer

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Lesifoere said:
Sterile setting with uninteresting characters? Check (yes, I realize you think DA characters are memorable and emotionally engaging, but your taste doesn't count for shit). Elves and dwarves? Double-check! Character system being dumb so you end up with shitloads of points to spend on abilities, which you then spend on anything vaguely useful and a lot of things that are useless? Check. Varied skill development? Hahaha.

So, yeah, did you misspell "Dragon Age: Origins"?

We're talking about TW here. I could've said all that and compared it to say, Baldurs Gate 2 and be absolutely right.

Also notice how I've never said DA:O in any part of my post, so I don't know what you faggots are smoking lately but if I'm such a DA:O fanboy as you guys insist on saying, why are you all the ones bringing it up for comparison's sake all the fucking time?
 

ironyuri

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racofer said:
ironyuri said:
Is this an example of you inclining a thread....?
It surely beats one liner witty responses to everything.

Paint me a vulgar picture instead, that seems to be how you usually respond?

Perhaps you should've tried to read those very threads in here? You know, the content in them besides the title? Because you obviously haven't.

I read almost all of the content of those threads and may even have posted in some of them- overall the consensus was that AP was trash and not worth pirating while a small, vocal minority argued that the game was, in grand Codex style, good for what it was.


Really? How is DA:O combat twitchy? Last I recall, there was no timed click-click-click-click-click-click-click to dispatch enemies. DA:O also has multiple classes and quite a few variations on how you build them, unlike TWitcher.

What about Dragon Age combat wasn't twitchy? Select PC -> Click darkspawn -> Click or hotkey 1/2/3/4/etc for special ability -> wait for recharge -> Click or hotkey 1/2/3/4/etc for special ability -> Click darkspawn

Not to mention the fact I had to babysit every single playable NPC that I took with me in combat when they'd run off every five minutes and attack an enemy other than the one I told them to... usually exposing themselves to an enemy mage or archers.

I could go on, but you're here to sound smart and earn quick KKKs, you being an angry, vicious newfag and all, ready to spill your bile on the members that dare to go against your very definition of that is accepted in here. I'm sure you will climb to our highest ranks in no time with that attitude, after all, this is what the Codex is all about nya?

I'm not here to earn quick KKKs, I don't give a shit about KKKs. That's why I don't post lulzy pictures of my internet persona in some megalomaniacial iconoclastic fashion to boost my own ego and shore up credibility I otherwise lack in addressing legitimate arguments about gaming.

I bought the Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2 Collector's Editions on Ebay. I played them to completion, twice each. I played the DLC content. I legitimately did not enjoy Dragon Age. I found it bland, uninspired, frustrating due to AI problems and overall an unrewarding gaming experience. But that's another argument for another thread.

The Witcher came out almost a full three years before Dragon Age and offered some new mechanics, not all of which were brilliantly implemented. It tried to do something new with the in-game fantasy races and was a break with the Baldur's Gate setting of perfect interracial/species harmony- an element which Dragon Age seemed to lift directly from The Witcher especially where lore was concerned. and all in all it was a more enjoyable game because Geralt did not feel as two dimensional as the Warden was at any given point in the story.

We're talking about TW here. I could've said all that and compared it to say, Baldurs Gate 2 and be absolutely right.

I don't think BG2 and TW are qualitatively comparable. Especially not if we're talking about mechanics.

Also notice how I've never said DA:O in any part of my post, so I don't know what you faggots are smoking lately but if I'm such a DA:O fanboy as you guys insist on saying, why are you all the ones bringing it up for comparison's sake all the fucking time?

Possibly because you make threads about ME2 and DA:O every few weeks and upon the release of every major DLC? I'd say precedent goes against you here.


Edit- As an aside- If I were to hunt down the first couple posts I made, you and Jaesun quite rigorously accused me of being a drog alt and decried my being a newfag and questioned my right to post based on my gaming history as if it would boost your own KKKred; so when I read insubstantial criticisms that you've posted about a whole raft of RPGs while holding up games like DA:O, I tend to drink from the chalice of butthurt, yes.
 

ironyuri

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racofer said:
I bought the Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2 Collector's Editions on Ebay. I played them to completion, twice each. I played the DLC content.
I legitimately did not enjoy Dragon Age.

:lol:

When you spend 80 dollars on games that you've been anticipating for a while, you tend to give them the benefit of the doubt, (I like Mass Effect (1 better than 2) and don't regret the purchase) having done so with DA:O I found the bad outweighed the good. The Witcher on the other hand got two playthroughs and will see another sometime in the future.

And I C WUT U DID THER WITTY WITH THE EMOTICN REPAPSNEOMGLOLLL
 

Darth Roxor

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ironyuri said:
When you spend 80 dollars on games that you've been anticipating for a while, you tend to give them the benefit of the doubt, (I like Mass Effect (1 better than 2) and don't regret the purchase) having done so with DA:O I found the bad outweighed the good.

I could understand you playing through it once, following an idea of 'Maybe it gets better later...', but good God, man, twice?
 

racofer

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Darth Roxor said:
ironyuri said:
When you spend 80 dollars on games that you've been anticipating for a while, you tend to give them the benefit of the doubt, (I like Mass Effect (1 better than 2) and don't regret the purchase) having done so with DA:O I found the bad outweighed the good.

I could understand you playing through it once, following an idea of 'Maybe it gets better later...', but good God, man, twice?

The hilarious part about his statement is that I've only played DA:O once so far, haven't even played more than 2 hours of Awakening and only played two of the other DLCs :lol:
 

ironyuri

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Darth Roxor said:
ironyuri said:
When you spend 80 dollars on games that you've been anticipating for a while, you tend to give them the benefit of the doubt, (I like Mass Effect (1 better than 2) and don't regret the purchase) having done so with DA:O I found the bad outweighed the good.

I could understand you playing through it once, following an idea of 'Maybe it gets better later...', but good God, man, twice?

I completed a dwarf commoner playthrough with the post-release DLC, I haven't played Leiliana's song or the Witch Hunt shit. I killed the character off at the end.

I went back and checked out the other Origins to see if they were worth it and then took a human through to the end (without bothering with the DLC content again or several sidequests) on the off-chance I was swayed to buy Awakening. That's roughly when patch 1.3 came out and I decided to shelf the game on a permanent basis. I got my money's worth out of it.

If I had pirated the game, played it twice and then bitched however... then I'd gladly open myself to buttsex.

Edit- Actually the saving grace of DA:O was that feast-day DLC pack they released with lulzy stuff. Was like playing a The Sims RPG. I might go and play DA:O again just to have awesome times with that.
 

Roguey

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ironyuri said:
I completed a dwarf commoner playthrough with the post-release DLC
...
I went back and checked out the other Origins to see if they were worth it and then took a human through to the end
...
I got my money's worth out of it.
Are you familiar with the concept of sunk costs? Either you played it because you liked it or you're as bright as a fictional slow-boiling frog (they don't actually stay in the water).
 
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Okay, seriously now:

ironyuri said:
What about Dragon Age combat wasn't twitchy? Select PC -> Click darkspawn -> Click or hotkey 1/2/3/4/etc for special ability -> wait for recharge -> Click or hotkey 1/2/3/4/etc for special ability -> Click darkspawn

I thought "twitch" meant combat involving button mashing, or maybe timed button presses, because they rely on the player's reflexes (like in say, Paper Mario, or...The Witcher, according to 1ek). Does a click 'n' wait system really classify as twitch combat? You'd think this means any form of combat other than classic turn-based is twitchy.
 

racofer

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Clockwork Knight said:
I thought "twitch" meant combat involving button mashing, or maybe timed button presses, because they rely on the player's reflexes (like in say, Paper Mario, or...The Witcher, according to 1ek).

You thought correctly.
 

ironyuri

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Roguey said:
ironyuri said:
I completed a dwarf commoner playthrough with the post-release DLC
...
I went back and checked out the other Origins to see if they were worth it and then took a human through to the end
...
I got my money's worth out of it.
Are you familiar with the concept of sunk costs? Either you played it because you liked it or you're as bright as a fictional slow-boiling frog (they don't actually stay in the water).


DA:O warrants at least two playthroughs- one taking the "evil" path and one taking the "good" path. It also offers, as racofer said, three classes you can choose and different permutations. You can't unlock the blood mage as a good warrior on a first playthrough for example.

The first playthrough had novelty value which carried me to the end. The second was about getting value out of the game and trying to see if it was redeemable and whether certain classes or party combinations made the game easier.

I expect games journalists to at least play a game once when reviewing it. I expect to be able to (unless there are game breaking bugs like the ones Bioware released in patch 1.03) play through the major pathways a game offers before definitively judging it. There's nothing stupid about it. The opposite would be like running a stupid playthrough of Fallout and only a stupid playthrough and then deciding the game has shit dialogue and no quests. But this is the Codex where people don't play games they just hate them, right?

Like racofer can't play Fallout or Arcanum because he needs rtwp to maintain his ADD attention span.
 

Baron

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ironyuri said:
I expect games journalists to at least play a game once when reviewing it. I expect to be able to play through the major pathways a game offers before definitively judging it. But this is the Codex where people don't play games they just hate them, right?
Yeah, but journalists are required by loose contractual obligation to suffer such a fate. I agree they should play it right through before judging it, because unlike me they're supposed to have standards. But I know I put a lot of hours into that game, following all side quests and dialogue before I abandoned it in nausea. I paid full price too, but didn't feel the need to get my money's worth when I can chase cars in the street or sit on my roof and throw sticks at the moon. I hated the first half to two thirds of consoling and baby sitting annoying halfwits and started to feel like how the mothers of half the Codex must feel (without the cock from Johns in my ass), part of me wants to push on and complete Dragon Age to denounce it fairly and justly in my paladin fashion... but I just didn't enjoy it.

And after reading with bewilderment and dismay the heretical mumblings of madmen who cast aside The Witcher, I've concluded that it's just a matter of personal taste and that arguing about it is ultimately meaningless. But it beats chasing cars.
 

Roguey

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ironyuri said:
DA:O warrants at least two playthroughs- one taking the "evil" path and one taking the "good" path.
Why? I can usually tell whether anything's good or not with a once-over, minor changes in dialogue, items/abilities available, and gameplay isn't going to change that.
It also offers, as racofer said, three classes you can choose and different permutations. You can't unlock the blood mage as a good warrior on a first playthrough for example.
Every class is pretty well-represented by your companions. I played a dual-wielding rogue, but I'm quite familiar with how sword-and-shield/two-handed warriors work, as well as archer rogues and heal/buff and crowd control/damage (easy mode) mages. So you missed out on some specializations, so what? Did you go through NWN2 with every class type and all the prestige options?
The first playthrough had novelty value which carried me to the end. The second was about getting value out of the game and trying to see if it was redeemable and whether certain classes or party combinations made the game easier.
This food is terrible, and in such small portions too. Maybe if I ask for seconds and drown it in spices...

And you didn't instantly figure out how to break it? What kind of RPG veteran are you? I'm certainly not an expert game-breaker and even I know that crowd control and spellcasters are the obvious choice in D&D and D&D-derivatives.

I expect to be able to (unless there are game breaking bugs like the ones Bioware released in patch 1.03) play through the major pathways a game offers before definitively judging it.
Is this some kind of e-reputation thing? Or just obsessive-compulsive? I imagine the thought process is something like this:
Hour 1: Not particular fun
Hour 10: Still not having fun
Hour 25: Ugh, when does this get fun?
Hour 50 or whenever you finish: All right self/internet, I can definitively declare Dragon Age a bad game. But I better play it again just to make extra sure.
 

ironyuri

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Roguey said:
Why? I can usually tell whether anything's good or not with a once-over, minor changes in dialogue, items/abilities available, and gameplay isn't going to change that.

I said above, the first playthrough had novelty value which carried it through. I gave it the benefit of the doubt.

Every class is pretty well-represented by your companions. I played a dual-wielding rogue, but I'm quite familiar with how sword-and-shield/two-handed warriors work, as well as archer rogues and heal/buff and crowd control/damage (easy mode) mages. So you missed out on some specializations, so what? Did you go through NWN2 with every class type and all the prestige options?

I played a dual-wielding warrior and had a warrior heavy party (Alistair, Dog, Morrigan, occassionally Leiliana for lockpicking); I wanted to try playing a mage to see if it changed things up. Have you never played PS:T more than once to try different styles with TNO? (the two are qualitatively different but this example should work.)

This food is terrible, and in such small portions too. Maybe if I ask for seconds and drown it in spices...

And you didn't instantly figure out how to break it? What kind of RPG veteran are you? I'm certainly not an expert game-breaker and even I know that crowd control and spellcasters are the obvious choice in D&D and D&D-derivatives.

I try not to break games....? I balanced out stats in my first playthrough to see how it played if you played it as it was meant to be and struggled with some of the combat and found the stat requirements for armour in the late-game to be very annoying.

Second playthrough I took a human noble rogue and used game-breaking investments in dex/str to get those one hit kill arrow strikes.

Is this some kind of e-reputation thing? Or just obsessive-compulsive? I imagine the thought process is something like this:
Hour 1: Not particular fun
Hour 10: Still not having fun
Hour 25: Ugh, when does this get fun?
Hour 50 or whenever you finish: All right self/internet, I can definitively declare Dragon Age a bad game. But I better play it again just to make extra sure.

I'm a completionist in rpgs. I try to complete every quest/get everything out of it that I can. Probably more the obsessive compulsive than e-reputation leaning though. If I had played it twice and written a review of it for the Codex, I'd have been hailed for "taking one for the team" like Driackin's Fallout 3 LP- playing it twice to get the full value out of the game eventhough the enjoyment of the second playthrough was seriously lacking and it's some e-reputation thing?
 

Phelot

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I can see playing a game through even if you didn't enjoy it as a whole. Chances are Ironyuri liked at least some of it or had a feeling it might get better. Perhaps a second playthrough as a different character or higher difficulty.

Still, no one has yet to defend against my glorious attacks towards TW. I must now declare victory and will assume that most praise it only for boobs.
 

ironyuri

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phelot said:
Baron said:
I know The Witcher couldn't compete with the riveting player character possibilities provided by Diablo 2's many and varied Classes ("I'm a Barbarian!") Or perhaps it was just that the game focus had shifted from smashing barrels.

Who is talking about Diablo? Fact is, TW has terrible character progression with little choice in skills. Of course we're going to upgrade all the fighting stances and weapon skills especially when we're provided with so many points to do so. It was pointless to even give the player the illusion of picking shit. Sure, you have enough points to put them into the various magic spells, but who the fuck needs them other then for some retarded "puzzles" like using air to blow open some caved in rocks...

No thanks.

That depends on your play style- the signs could often be more effective in combat against certain enemy types. Igni (the fire sign), for example, was useful in several situations and against numerous enemies. Putting points into the shield/defence sign was invaluable near the end-game and the aard proved itself useful throughout, especially when you needed crowd control.

I guess I just liked using all the options available, rather than just clicking allt he time and then bitching about how the Witcher is filled with click-twitch combat?....

phelot said:
Baron said:
Yes, The Witcher had some FedEx quests and the odd "Kill 10 dogs for a small reward," but so did every RPG prior (and apparently The Witcher 2 won't have any.) The Dog Catcher of Vizima quest was the first of that kind that I've turned down. During the 90s I scalped and butchered owl bears, driders, hydra lords, deep gnomish clans, dragons of every spectrum, and returned kobolds racked up on my spear like a kebab if it led to a reward. And I never once stopped to consider refusing the quest on moral grounds or out of character.

I believe I was able to complete that quest by finding dog tallow in random barrels... that have such items just like every other RPG. So is that suppose to be an excuse? That TW is just like every other RPG?

And why isn't there a choice for Geralt to tell the guy to fuck off with killing dogs? And why is a Witcher going around taking such shitty jobs to begin with?

Oh right, it has something to do with immersion.

Like made said, you don't need to take all the jobs. Witcher's hunt and kill beasts for a fee; stray dogs are beasts and the Witcher was paid... however you always had the choice to turn down the job. While it would have been interesting if the job boards had been more dynamic, ie: if you didn't take jobs they'd disappear after a certain time limit (simulating someone else taking it in your place), they were not. You still had the choice.

If I remember rightly though, the dog tallow quest for the Undertaker/Graveyard overseer led to another quest involving a woman and her recently deceased husband who had returned as a restless wraith. She only appeared at the Graveyard around 12-16:00 game time, however, and so you may have missed that.

Regardless, you could still choose what jobs to take. I did all the available jobs because Geralt's quest to find salamandra did not preclude his carrying out Witcher's work. (LARPing? Who knows.) I also needed the gold, more often than not. As with all rpgs there were fedex quests; if there is ever an RPG release without a fedex quest of some sort I will be very surprised.

phelot said:
Baron said:
Witcher quests let you uncover murderers, side with slimy factions, discover wrong or less revealing clues to arrive at different conclusions, and even allow your prey to escape. Your employers and opponents were rarely clear cut good or evil. For me it was exactly what a RPG should be; an immersive world that throws you into its story and leaving you (like Geralt) constantly questioning your loyalties and allegiances. This game was a thousand times better than the highly decorated engine it was built on.

The murder investigation was the only potentially fun quest with interesting choices, but was ruined by poor NA translation. Still, there was no consequences to it. What happens if you pick that thug boss? You kill him and that's that. If you didn't pick him then you never hear from him. None the less, it always ends with the same fight, which the game doesn't allow you to finish.

Again, Geralt is railroaded by the nature of the game and the need to implement some structure which will drive the plot forward. If you name Ramsmeat, sure, you don't get anything but a cheap fight; but I'd say there's some feeling of accomplishment if you take the quest through to the end and try to figure it out.

The poor VO is no reason to criticise, it was fixed (mostly) in the Enhanced Edition and while Marlowe changed his tone and voice one a few occassions in the original release it was not so jarring as to completely make me lose suspension of disbelief.

Balancing choice/consequence and branching storylines against driving the narrative forward is difficult ground. You need to uncover Salamandra in Vizima and the murder plot is your main route to get there (in fact the only one); if the devs had implemented multiple paths that would have been wonderful, but we have what they gave us and, frankly, it's good for what it is.


The factions were the same! Each had a counter part. There is no clear consequences other then who you fuck in the last chapter and having to deal with certain characters "hurt feelings" or whatever. Otherwise, what were the consequences?[

The factions are not the same. You've got the Flaming Fis- I mean the Order of the Flame and the Squirrels and then you've got the neutral path. None of the factions is either purely good nor purely evil, so, unlike a Bioware game the moral choices are somewhat ambiguous. The squirrels can do pretty horrid things to humans and the Flaming Fist can do pretty brutal things to non-humans. I took the neutral path and fucked the two nurses because the Witcher does not into politics.

I haven't seen any other game that really implements vibrant and realistic factions, so to expect it of the Witcher is perhaps to expect too much. If you extrapolate the plot into the unseen future you can assume how different the endings would be- If you chose the Flaming Fist then there would be renewed non-human pogroms and if you choose the squirrels they will, after a bloody struggle, force recognition of their rights in Temeria... if you choose the Witcher then nobody wins except Geralt.
 

Unkillable Cat

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Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
While I had a hunch my post would bring out some *RAGE*, I never thought it would be 5 pages worth. Not that it was my intention, I actually wanted to give you all my impressions on the game as I kept playing. But at least I know now why trolling is such a coveted art to master.

I've played through Chapter I now (autosaves held) and will be giving my impressions of the game up to that point, but first I'll answer some questions.

Q: Why all the hate on the graffix, mang?

A: Because I've been out of the loop in video games for several years now, and as far as I can tell, the only real developments in video gaming since 2004 have been in the graphics department. I wanted to know where games stood today in terms of graphics. I'll admit I made an error by thnking that The Witcher was an example of 2010 graphical capabilities, being a 3-year old game using a 4+-year old engine and such. Risen will propably give a clearer answer to this. (Thanks to those that replied to that question, BTW.)
But from a quick glance, while some things look better than ever, some things actually look worse than they've done in older titles that had to settle for 2D-graphics, sans acceleration doohickeys and all that stuff. I'm looking forward to the game that actually gets shadows right, for example.

Q: Why are you playing on Easy, you wuss?

A: Because I had no idea how the combat system worked in the game. Seeing as the game is made by people living right next door (so to say) to the people that made the Gothic games, I feared I'd be getting Gothic-wise combat, or worse. Also, I had no idea whether the game was combat-centric or not. (But all things considered, I should have guessed the answer to that one.)
Almost right from the start I knew that I'd be restarting the game, and after playing through Chapter 1 I will be doing just that. Maybe. But at least then I'll play on Medium.
It's also the reason why I'm not commenting on the combat system at all.

Q: So what game(s) did Iceland produce? (ha!)

A: The first Icelandic game was an educational title from 1997 called The Time Traveller. It's in Icelandic, so nobody really cares.
The second Icelandic game is called EVE Online. Chances are good you've heard of it. :smug:
There have also been a handful of iPhone/Flash-based games released by Icelandic companies, the only one I can recall at the moment is Peter Und Vlad.

Moving along now...

# The game does pick up considerably once you start playing in Chapter 1. My fears of the game being confined to tiny playable areas due to engine limitations were fortunately quashed. Unfortunately the game only achieves 2.5 dimensions. That technological obstacle was overcome before some forumites here were born, why the regression? Does the Aurora engine really suck that badly?

# As far as game starts are concerned, The Witcher has one of the worst. It starts out by demonstrating almost every aspect of the game in the worst conceivable manner, with the emphasis on the most uninteresting parts. I understand perfectly that many people tried out the game and dropped it shortly afterwards. It's easily on par with Fallout 2 and the Temple of Trials.

# Like so many posters have pointed out, TW has both C&C and a morally ambigious protagonist, instead of the "You must be either a saint or a sinner! Choose NOW!"-school of gameplay design. Well, that's great. Seriously. Shame the English localization mars the experience.

# Even with one update to the English translation of the game, I can clearly see the "cuts" that were made. I'm not just talking about "Lost in translation"-cuts, but bits of (spoken) text important enough to make the story flow at a normal pace. Instead it sputters and jumps like a warped record. A good example is Abigail's sudden appearance in the cave towards the end of Chapter 1. Only the bare-bones version of an explanation is given. The Witcher is the most poorly translated game I've played in many MANY years.

# But unexpectedly, a good point comes out of this: The game forces you to *think* a bit harder about things. In a good way. Remember the group of kids in Chapter 1 who kept talking about playing these violent kiddie games? Because of them, I knew exactly where to go to find the secret bandit hideout when that quest came up. For where else would kids learn such language? (No, I haven't used the "Quest GPS"-thingie that seems to be included with the game.)

# The alchemy system looks promising, and I like how the game handles readables and the journal. But the inventory system and the character advancement? Crap. Total and utter crap. You've all harped about how unimportant the character advancement system is, so I'll focus on the inventory system instead.
Like to be expected, the game offers limited inventory space. Fair enough, been done before. There are also specialized inventory slots, and at least 1 quickslot for potions and/or bombs. It even allows duplicate items to be stacked in a slot, up to 10 at a time. But here's where it fails: When it comes to weapons and armour, you only ever have 1 inventory slot. Sure, you have 3 kinds of weapons, but you can only ever carry 1 of each. Want to carry a torch? Can't carry a dagger while doing that. You can't even carry a dagger in any of the other designated weapon slots should they be free. Nevermind that you have enough room in your satchels to carry 300 canine skulls, you can't ever fit a dagger in there. Strangely enough, the alchemy bag has a much higher stack allowance than the regular inventory, why can't it be equal?
To make things even worse, there are very few places where you can store your stuff. In the first chapter I could only find Olaf's storage "service", so I used that extensively. Until the game decided that Olaf must die. And with his passing, all my stuff unexplicably disappears forever. His inn is still there, it looks perfectly fine, it isn't on fire...and yet not a single atom of my stored stuff can be found.
This isn't bad design, this is stupid design. Retarded, even. It's so stupid that it's the biggest reason against me wanting to carry on playing the game. Knowing that I'll be struggling and juggling with the inventory for the rest of the game isn't exactly motivating me to play on.

# Which leaves the story as the only real reason for me to keep playing. And with the translation job so botched up, that's not exactly a shout of encouragement.

# So where does the game stand, after playing this far into it? Right in the middle of mediocrity. Everything The Witcher does, has been done better before. It has no redeeming qualities to make it stand out, no real reason for anyone to play it. It isn't a bad game...it just isn't a good one either.
 

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