Please tell me why I'm going to hate Oblivion

[Lumpy]

You're also going to hate Oblivion because little items aren't worth anything: http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... pic=234428

 

[Vault Dweller]

How old are you?

35.

There is a difference between overcoming a repetetive pattern or even a feature and overcoming the LACK of features.

That's like saying it's different if you're racist against black people than if you're racist against jewish people.

Uh, no. Both are examples of strictly racial hate. The only difference is the race.

A repetitive pattern is also in a way a lack of something in the game. Repetition and a missing feature are both problems...

Uh, no again, but nice try. These are very different problems. There is huge difference between something poorly done (repetition, although I disagree that that was the case) and something not done at all. Something vs Nothing. Am I getting through here, Tintin?

 

[Thrawn05]

You're also going to hate Oblivion because little items aren't worth anything: http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... pic=234428

And just when you think it can't get any worse....

 

[Lumpy]

You're also going to hate Oblivion because little items aren't worth anything: http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... pic=234428

And just when you think it can't get any worse....

It appears that casual gamers were annoyed of having to collect every single spoon from the dungeons they hack in. Bethesda fixed this.

 

[Zomg]

I'd say that's more for the obsessive-compulsive completionists (Who must find TES games nightmarish) than for genuine casual gamers, who probably wouldn't even notice.

 

[Thrawn05]

I've played my fair share of MW, I'll admit that, but I didn't clean out every damn house of every damn item. That's just stupid even as a theif.

I always left the cheap stuff behind. But I still want to be able to sell it if I have it.

 

[Tintin]

There is huge difference between something poorly done (repetition, although I disagree that that was the case) and something not done at all

So then why can't you change the wording around and say that variation of NPCs or cities or whatever the guys complaint was, was not in Daggerfall? Then isn't that something not done at all too?

 

[Levski 1912]

Daggerfall was made quite a long time ago, though, so a lack of variance in cities/NPCs can't really be held against the game...Bethesda must've had a much bigger budget for Oblivion, and better development technology as well (terrain generators, Speedtree), so this argument shouldn't be applicable to Oblivion.

 

[Thrawn05]

Daggerfall was made quite a long time ago, though, so a lack of variance in cities/NPCs can't really be held against the game...Bethesda must've had a much bigger budget for Oblivion, and better development technology as well (terrain generators, Speedtree), so this argument shouldn't be applicable to Oblivion.

DF was a much larger virtual world, because it represented an almost 1:1 representation of the world it was based on. You didn't have that big a difference in style from town to town. The big differences were when you went to High Rock and then to Hammerfell.

In MW, it was a small virtual world trying to represent a large island. So the differences had to be more dramatic.

 

[Tintin]

Daggerfall was made quite a long time ago, though, so a lack of variance in cities/NPCs can't really be held against the game...Bethesda must've had a much bigger budget for Oblivion, and better development technology as well (terrain generators, Speedtree), so this argument shouldn't be applicable to Oblivion.

Except that this is not what I was arguing about.

 

[Vault Dweller]

There is huge difference between something poorly done (repetition, although I disagree that that was the case) and something not done at all

So then why can't you change the wording around and say that variation of NPCs or cities or whatever the guys complaint was, was not in Daggerfall? Then isn't that something not done at all too?

If you want to talk like a lawyer, twisting words until they fit your agenda, then there is no need to argue. I believe I've made my point and explained it sufficiently.

However, to deal with that nonsense one last time, lack of variation which is a property of an object or a class and lack of an object or a class itself are two different things. Example: lack of varieties of crossbows in MW and lack of crossbows in OB. You can use your imagination to deal with the lack of variety, but you can't use your imagination to deal with the lack of the objects.

 

[Nog Robbin]

You're also going to hate Oblivion because little items aren't worth anything: http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... pic=234428

And just when you think it can't get any worse....

It appears that casual gamers were annoyed of having to collect every single spoon from the dungeons they hack in. Bethesda fixed this.

Yep - same reason why a somewhat more realistic (and restrictive) inventory system won't be implemented - because it would mean people wouldn't just be able to pick up everything and walk off with it.

 

[bryce777]

What in the hell is wrong with tintin, exactly?

What drives him on to not only relentlessly defend a crap game, but to relentlessly argue every single imaginable point possible?

 

[Tintin]

What drives him on to not only relentlessly defend a crap game

Oh I see - willingly admitting a game's faults but not bashing it to death is relentlessly defending a crap game.

but to relentlessly argue every single imaginable point possible?

...so now arguing about criticizing TES fans for doing something (which I openly also said was stupid - I'm such a relentless defender) but not doing it for someone else who does the same thing is defending a point about Oblivion now. Interesting....

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Dude... Chill.

 

[Tintin]

If you want to talk like a lawyer, twisting words until they fit your agenda, then there is no need to argue. I believe I've made my point and explained it sufficiently.

You accuse me of "talking like a lawyer" yet here you are coming up with all sorts of excuses to defend Twinfalls but at the same time criticize the TES fans. There are two problems prsented, one in DF and one in OB. Both responses were "use your imagination" and "you're not playing it right". But you only criticize one. And you gave your little explanation there.

So why not use your imagination for all the Morrowind Fedex quests as well. That's just about variety and it was already implemented right? So can we use this excuse there as well? And for all the boring cities or boring NPCs? Use your imagination?

 

[bryce777]

What drives him on to not only relentlessly defend a crap game

Oh I see - willingly admitting a game's faults but not bashing it to death is relentlessly defending a crap game.

but to relentlessly argue every single imaginable point possible?

...so now arguing about criticizing TES fans for doing something (which I openly also said was stupid - I'm such a relentless defender) but not doing it for someone else who does the same thing is defending a point about Oblivion now. Interesting....

All your words are rnning together into...?

 

[Vault Dweller]

You accuse me of "talking like a lawyer" yet here you are coming up with all sorts of excuses to defend Twinfalls but at the same time criticize the TES fans. There are two problems prsented, one in DF and one in OB. Both responses were "use your imagination" and "you're not playing it right". But you only criticize one. And you gave your little explanation there.

*sigh* I thought I clearly explained my position. Anybody else is having problems understanding it? Just curious.

 

[Tintin]

All your words are rnning together into...?

The words look like English, yet they don't make any sense.

*sigh* I thought I clearly explained my position. Anybody else is having problems understanding it? Just curious.

Right. That's why I said " And you gave your little explanation there." That usually means acknowledging an explanation. Just in case you didn't see it.

Of course, there was second part to that post that went ignored......

 

[HardCode]

What in the hell is wrong with tintin, exactly?

What drives him on to not only relentlessly defend a crap game, but to relentlessly argue every single imaginable point possible?

I've yet to see him post an original thought that wasn't a (in his mind) counter-point to someone else's post. In other words, just come here to nitpick and not to contribute. But it takes all kinds ....

 

[Vault Dweller]

Right. That's why I said " And you gave your little explanation there." That usually means acknowledging an explanation. Just in case you didn't see it.

Of course, there was second part to that post that went ignored......

Both "little" and the content of your post implied that you dismissed it completely. Which is why I stopped arguing and ignored the second part.

 

[Tintin]

I've yet to see him post an original thought that wasn't a (in his mind) counter-point

Wow, that's pretty weird, I suggest you go to www.rpgcodex.com then, you may have better luck looking there.

Both "little" and the content of your post implied that you dismissed it completely. Which is why I stopped arguing and ignored the second part.

Okay. So how about responding to it now?

 

[Xi]

The question is, givin freedom of speech, what responsibility do we, as people, have to each other to respect a difference of opinion?

 

[Twinfalls]

How about I respond.

Tintin - you are taking my comment out of context, to fit your narrow (as always) agenda of bashing the Codex and trying desperately to find 'hypocrisy'.

Here is the context:

Secondly, and more importantly - you fail to understand the whole point of how Daggerfall is to be enjoyed. The 'repetition' in DF must be considered in the context of the sheer vastness of the game world. If any game is to be played with a 'live another life' and 'you are there' mindset, it is Daggerfall, and not Morrowind.

Play it with a 'I am really here' outlook, allow your imagination to fill in the unique details that you need, and realise that the game facilitates a huge experience, one that Morrowind simply gives up on, right from the outset.

We were talking here about the 'repetition' in building interiors, and the lack of 'unique details' in them (Daggerfall).

Which is a very different matter to not having the buildings there at all (Morrowind).

Filling in 'unique details' in a vast game world, is completely different suggestion to filling in basic features in a small world. Daggerfall facilitates a huge game experience with massive replayability. Morrowind does not come close.

There is no 'Codex Prohibition' on 'using your imagination'.

There are other examples of Daggerfall requiring imagination. For example, if you steal something, you are wanted by the guards, even if there was no NPC 'looking through the window' that you could see. Here, you could use your imagination, rather than gripe about everything not being graphically realised.

This is completely different to the Oblivion Fanboy saying 'use your imagination' in order to decide to NOT join a guild even though you can. Here, you are being asked to limit your behaviour artificially to overcome poor design. This is NOT use of imagination in the Daggerfall sense.

You will, of course, refuse to even try to understand any of this - which is a pattern of behaviour you exhibit here - but I make the point regardless since you used a quote of mine out of context.

As an aside, note also the first point in my response:

Firstly, this is not quite true - rooms are not 'identical' in DF, there are different NPCs in every room. There is more variety overall, when you look at regional differences between architecture and people, than in MW.

 

[Section8]

I'd say that's more for the obsessive-compulsive completionists (Who must find TES games nightmarish) than for genuine casual gamers, who probably wouldn't even notice.

I think it's also part of the capitalist munchkin culture that's so well represented in games. Some people just don't get that not all items are "loot". And I'll admit it took me a while to cast off those idiot shackles.

"Wow! That quarterstaff is worth a silver piece! Each silver piece makes me a better person!" <adds the quarterstaff to the fagot of quarterstaves in my pack>