PoE engagement disabled in IE Mod pros and cons

[Kiste]

what is "microing your guys around to confuse ai" supposed to mean lmao
retreating, switching targets or just moving in combat = confusing ai?
???

Read the thread.

 

[Matalarata]

no complaints

He just felt the need to come back 2 days straight to a thread about the functionality of a mod he doesn't like, wich changes the tactical approach of a game he:

I don't particularly like it but I don't really hate it all that much

to be more in line with that of a classic he has played with one hand on his mouse and the other down his pants but that's fine 'cause his:

decades of P&P experience

wich by the way he gave ample proof of in this same thread, are the shining beacon we should all follow when evaluating stat based tactical rpg!


Stop harassing him with facts...

 

[Ellef]

Playing with engagement on, now that the IE Mod needs an update. Enemies are impaling themselves on me all the time and I'm not doing anything special. I think they keep making micro adjustments or spazzing out on pathfinding, even charging straight into melee I'm getting free hits occasionally.

 

[hiver]

There is a mod to remove engagement in the game.

Imagine that, removes engagement, not just disengagement, but doesnt remove Ai. Who would have thought that, EH?

Someone could just make it last indefinitely. For every creature in the game.
And allow it for fighters (maybe few more classes/creatures to keep things lively) only.

Problem solved.

 

[Sensuki]

They've always done that. I'm surprised nobody else noticed it. I've stated repeatedly that enemies just run straight into me and suffer disengagement attacks.

"Engagement is not broken!"

 

[Dreaad]

There's some other funny stuff about encounters that I've noticed too. Mostly AI related.
The sanitarium takes the cake though.

Spoiler

When the crazy inmates get released and attack you .
Ok so after discovering that there was nothing I could do to prevent the inmates from attacking. I reloaded, because I remebered the sanitarium statue leader telling me to not hurt the inmates if I could help it. So I thought to myself fine. I'll keep the whole party at the entrance and only use my main character in the area. Once the cells open, I'll run past them, go invisible and escape, without killing anyone. Nope. Upon the cells opening ALL of the inmates ignore my PC and make a beeline for my party, specifically for Aloth. Guess they can sense his mind 5 rooms away next to the stairs . Not only that, but the wichts TELEPORT to my party through the fog of war as soon as combat begins . So I reloaded, left only Aloth at the entrance. Placed everyone else around the doorways leading to the entrance. Killed everything with engagement attacks, and the witchts bugged out frozen and non-interactive in their special cell

 

[SerratedBiz]

There's some other funny stuff about encounters that I've noticed too. Mostly AI related.
The sanitarium takes the cake though.

Spoiler

When the crazy inmates get released and attack you .
Ok so after discovering that there was nothing I could do to prevent the inmates from attacking. I reloaded, because I remebered the sanitarium statue leader telling me to not hurt the inmates if I could help it. So I thought to myself fine. I'll keep the whole party at the entrance and only use my main character in the area. Once the cells open, I'll run past them, go invisible and escape, without killing anyone. Nope. Upon the cells opening ALL of the inmates ignore my PC and make a beeline for my party, specifically for Aloth. Guess they can sense his mind 5 rooms away next to the stairs . Not only that, but the wichts TELEPORT to my party through the fog of war as soon as combat begins . So I reloaded, left only Aloth at the entrance. Placed everyone else around the doorways leading to the entrance. Killed everything with engagement attacks, and the witchts bugged out frozen and non-interactive in their special cell

That's because they're trying to escape and your party is in their way.

 

[Ziem]

what is "microing your guys around to confuse ai" supposed to mean lmao
retreating, switching targets or just moving in combat = confusing ai?
???

Read the thread.

i did
didnt really find the answer to why moving around = confusing ai, only gems like

Discouraging target switching is the main reason we have AoO in these RTwP games since NWN1, because in the IE games, the only legitimate way to do it was through obstruction and it fucking sucked ass. Discouraging target switching is a neccessity if you want the concept of the armored frontline fighter have any meaning at all.

So you keep "microing" Imoen to fuck up AI targeting and that's your gameplay solution to keeping enemies engaged with the tanks? Are you fucking kidding me?

Sensuki -trying to make abusing AI exploits look like legitimate gameplay since 2012

which basically confirm that people who believe this engagement system is good have no real arguments and no fucking clue what theyre talking about (blocking paths in ie games was "the only legitimate way"? have you played any of them? replacing a paper character with a tank - fucking up ai targeting, exploiting it? wat?)

 

[Kiste]

which basically confirm that people who believe this engagement system is good have no real arguments and no fucking clue what theyre talking about (blocking paths in ie games was "the only legitimate way"? have you played any of them? replacing a paper character with a tank - fucking up ai targeting, exploiting it? wat?)

Appentenly, you didn't understand what was written.

 

[Ziem]

these posts must have some sort of a hidden meaning then

because the conclusion i drew after reading these is that you believe that
moving in combat is bad
because microing is bad (? as if pillars with its per encounter spam combat wasnt micro intensive)
and being able to use any sort of tactics revolving around movement in combat is bad

 

[Kiste]

moving in combat is bad
because microing is bad (? as if pillars with its per encounter spam combat wasnt micro intensive)
and being able to use any sort of tactics revolving around movement in combat is bad

Microing around to break targeting by an utterly retarded AI is not "tactics". Even with SCS the AI had to be gimped on purpose to prioritize targets in melee range or close to melee range in order to remain playable - that's how fucked up the system is in BG2. If you give tank type characters the ability to engage enemies in combat and keep them there, then you can have AI that at least makes an effort to selectively target squishy/dangerous/harmful opponents. But, apparently, that would be bad because Sensuki wants CRPG RTwP combat to be a SC2-style microing shitfest. You know, because "tactics". Or something.

 

[Hatred]

As to others here, the Codex is a fellowship of grizzled gamers. Compared to other games from major dev houses, we are basically carrying PoE on our shoulders and gifting it with wine and song. Ya, there are some naysayers but there always are. The reaction, compared to most big titles that the Codex looks at, has been pretty darned positive. The only time folks are more positive about a game around here is when its from a small dev company that is making a hardcore game (AoD, Underrail, etc).

What fucking drugs are you on? Are you one of those people who thinks the game is hard on normal or something? Go and look at the post Filipepepe made. Like 13% of people Liked it more than BG2.Its true 45% of people were happy with it on the other thread but even that isnt really that fucking many. It was also before people even played the damn game. Then go and read the posts. There is a fair amount of complaining from IE fans. You know those people that liked bg2. The game that PoE was supposed to hark back to.
Feel free to point out that I am not some 'grizzled veteran of RPG Codex' but I am a fan of the IE games and I am not bloody happy with PoE. Fkn casuals.

 

[Shevek]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpMv76SIUhg&t=1m52s

 

[hiver]

I think Shevak was speaking in general terms there, not specifically as "game better then BG2".

I think its not and still i think its a half decent game with some really nicely done mechanics and C&C - that wasnt taken far enough, but still represents a major difference to where decline took the genre.

A game where you can fail a dialogue choice, with no taggs or glowing shit around it to warn you which one is good and which one bad, and loose a quest or some specific option inside one.
The game doesnt have to be better then BG2 to be a decent game.

But it should be criticized for all the bad or underwhelming or disappointing bits and pieces.

 

[Hatred]

Well I think he is spineless. Its kind of cute how he thinks I am young though. You can always tell someone has a good point when they go in for personal instead of ... actually making a point. In regards the game I have literally not finished it I found it to get pretty meh. I thought this site was supposed to be full of people who fought for 'incline'. If PoE is 'incline' then I guess too much skyrim/dragonage has dulled his mind. Thankfully his claim that the game is appreciated is pretty innacurate. As I did state it isn't really getting the best response. Since the first part of the game is the best part of the game the feedback towards it will only get worse too.
Your statement that it is a half decent game I could agree on. Its like there is a decent game that got chopped in half. A game though, much like a book, doesn't really appeal that much if its just half done though. Nothing can change the fact that PoE was made for casuals though. That is what really pisses me off.

 

[Shevek]

Nice job baiting. You will fit in here but you have to have a clue when you do it.

 

[hiver]

I would probably be more pissed if i backed that too, but i had enough of design for casuals during w2 and its beta and all.
And there are some serious slime traces of it all over D:OS, in whose beta i participated too.

And it seems i will have to start the new Torment game as a fucking falling star...

PoE is incline when compared to decline of the genre.
Not so much when compared to expectations for a true incline over the best examples of this genre and specific type of cRPG from the past.


-
oh and this site is full of casuals and mass market idiots, who will suck anything down as long as it has good graphics and enough hype. Plus some rare exceptions to that rule.
Days of old codex are long gone, if they ever were.

 

[Hatred]

I didn't even back it lol. I found out about it a few weeks after it was backed and made the mistake of spending the intervening time looking forward to it. I also made the mistake of buying it /facepalm. I didn't manage to drag myself through W2 or D:OS either. I really felt like after all this time some better AI might be on the cards That and some nice encounters/decent scaling. Now I am just hoping that the AI coding is something people can get to. I know in DOS and DOA and W2 that you pretty much cant get to it (well I have read it on the internet, i dont actually know anything about code at all). Heck I dont even mind that the engagement system is basically broken. I don't even feel like I can meaningfully judge engagement without the rest of the game working right. I do think that if it is going to be in the game it shouldn't just be for everyone all the time (I did read your post about it)
I'm also a bit confused by what this Shevek dude is on about. /sigh.

 

[Kiste]

:D A guy named "Hatred" who thinks pretty much everything is shit.

 

[Hatred]

:D A guy named "Hatred" who thinks pretty much everything is shit.

Well there is a lot of crap out there. Sorry if I am insulting something that you like.

 

[Mastermind]

Enemy casters are weak for the same reasons why party casters are weak (no surprise here, we all knew it would be like that).

The enemy casters are at a disadvantage because they are programmed to consistently use the weakest spells they could have access to. Enemy ciphers will use Fractured Volition instead of Mind Blades. Enemy wizards will use Minoletta's Minor Missiles or Jolting Touch instead of Slicken or Fan of Flames.

Jolting Touch is pretty awesome when my barbarian casts it:

 

[Athelas]

It's because of his Carnage ability.

It would be cool if enemy barbarians were designed to do something like this, but I doubt there are any.

 

[chuft]

Phantom Foes says

"Foe AoE: -10 enemies needed to Flank for 20.0 seconds"

This is rather cryptic and implies a certain number of enemies (engaged?) are needed to flank.

It could have just said "Foe AoE: Flanked for 20.0 seconds" but it doesn't.

Does that mean this ability does not work with the Engagement system removed?