Eternity PoE II: Deadfire Sales Analysis Thread

[Flou]

Who cares. As long as it’s not developed for multiple platforms from the start and dumbed down in effect, as was the case with Torment unfortunately.

Rev cares, so much that is keeps bringing it up every single time someone mentions Deadfire. Dunno how many people are like him, wanting everything made just for him and not kids across the street, them filthy console peasants.

If that Vgchart number was accurate those sales are quite okay for the game and I can see why Feargus and Versus Evil would want to bring the sequel on to consoles as well. They will make profit with those kind of numbers, easily.

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

Publisher's role is quite minimal, so I doubt Versus Evil is taking a huge cut of profits.

Fabulous optimistic.

 

[imweasel]

Then PoE2 comes along, everyone knows what kind of shitty game to expect. Backers and nostalgia people are no longer generating hype and people that didn't play PoE got no reason to buy and try PoE2.

It was obvious that something was wrong when many PoE backers weren't returning to back PoE 2 on fig. Both campaigns collected ~4 million dollars, but in the case of PoE 2 only half of it was from backers, the rest was from investors.

That said, I was expecting diminishing returns, but I certainly wasn't expecting Sawyerism to fail so spectacularly.

200k sales minus the 30% cut is what, an average sale price of approx 30 dollars? [...] The game will break even [...]

Don't forget that PoE 2 is substantially cheaper in some regions. You can also buy region free steam keys for ~25 dollars/22 Euros in keyshops...

I am also sure that the game will (eventually) break even, so Obsidian is not in danger, but this lackluster performance makes PoE 3 seem very unlikely ATM. If Obsidian does bite the bullet and greenlights PoE 3, then I would not expect Sawyer to be the director.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

I wasn't even aware people look at those Steam percentages, I just recently found you have to hover over the thingy to even see.

I am also not sure Josh is necessarily responsible for low difficulty, didn't a lot of more casual players complain about how PoE1 was too hard? Maybe Josh was made to lower the difficulty to avoid that. He himself is afterall a competent player who likes challenge.

Either way, when I look at the Steam reviews, most people actually complain about bugs. Is that difficulty thing a Codex thing or something?

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

I am also sure that the game will (eventually) break even, so Obsidian is not in danger

For the last time, it doesn't matter whether the game breaks even eventually, it matters whether they have resources to stay afloat. They are not indies. They are medium sized studio with a huge payroll.

I am also not sure Josh is necessarily responsible for low difficulty, didn't a lot of more casual players complain about how PoE1 was too hard? ... He himself is afterall a competent player who likes challenge.

He is the guy who said in public that it was not fun having to reload in BG2 because your companions died. If this type enjoys challenge, I don't know what challenge is.

 

[FreeKaner]

He is the guy who said in public that it was not fun having to reload in BG2 because your companions died. If this type enjoys challenge, I don't know what challenge is.

Yes. It's a game that we know how to make. I guess the thing is though, going all the way back to Icewind Dale ... I worked on Icewind Dale, and then I was the lead on Icewind Dale II, and ... In QA there was such, at Black Isle, there was an enormous gulf in player capability. And a lot of it depended on system mastery. And I was someone who, I grew up playing D&D, I played a tonne of it at university, too much at university, and I kind of just assumed that everyone understood how to play D&D, and so I designed combat and counters that were just ruthless, and brutal, and psychotic.

I remember one experience in particular, where we had a QA tester come up to my office and he said, "This is impossible. This fight is ridiculous, I've been trying to get through this for two and a half hours. What in the world were you thinking?" And I'm like, "What fight?" And he told me the fight, and I turned to my office mate who was also really good at these sort of games, I was like, "How many tries did it take you [to beat that fight]?" He's like, "I think I got through it on the first try." I'm like, "Yeah, I got through it on the first try too."

And so this tester says, "You are fucking lying. You're so full of shit." He's like, "Show me – show me how you did it." So I load it in, and I started pre-buffing. And I had three casters going for five rounds pre-buffing, and people drinking potions. He's asks, "What are you doing?" "I'm pre-buffing." He's like, "What do you mean?" So I explained all the different bonuses that I got, and how they stacked with each other, and how I cast the longest duration spells first, so that by the time I got to my shortest duration ones, that they were at the end of sequence and all this stuff. And then I transitioned, and I went in, and I fucking just wiped out the whole map. And he was like, "That's how you're supposed to do that?" I'm like, "Yeah, that's how I do every fight."

What he would personally like is not necessarily what he builds games around, he also said he doesn't like RTWP and prefers turn-based.

 

[vonAchdorf]

What he would personally like is not necessarily what he builds games around

I think he explicitly mentioned that in one of his talks.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

And I don't think I said anything to the contrary.

 

[FreeKaner]

Sawyer's ideal game is a historic, low fantasy or no fantasy classless turn-based game. Basically something like Darklands except turn-based.

 

[imweasel]

I am also sure that the game will (eventually) break even, so Obsidian is not in danger

For the last time, it doesn't matter whether the game breaks even eventually, it matters whether they have resources to stay afloat. They are not indies. They are medium sized studio with a huge payroll.

For the last time, you should also take into consideration that Obsidian is actually working on other projects. PoE 2 only breaking even is not enough to sink the fucking studio. Not even close.

 

[Flou]

I am also sure that the game will (eventually) break even, so Obsidian is not in danger, but this lackluster performance makes PoE 3 seem very unlikely ATM. If Obsidian does bite the bullet and greenlights PoE 3, then I would not expect Sawyer to be the director.

Sawyer already said that he would not be directing a project anytime soon which is perfectly understandable. Since joining Obsidian he has been leading project after an another, I bet he wants to take a breather as well for a change.

 

[The Bishop]

PoE 1 was well received. Nobody outside of the Codex gives a crap about that ridiculous "muh IE combat" whining.
Most people can't even define what they like or dislike about combat or any other aspect or gameplay or story.
Its like with people who shat on The Last Jedi (rightly so) but loved The Force Awakens. Totally random.

This place hates real RPGs and tries to sabotage them while buying and playing every piece of shitty console garbage churned out by EA and the likes /roqua

I don't know for sure, but I feel like most players (especially new players with no RPG history outside of Skyrim) that didn't like the game made no scene about it and just quietly quit. You won't hear from these people, but they're already concluded that PoE is not the type of game they enjoy, and they're not coming back. The most ironic thing about PoE is how it goes blue in the face trying to be accessible, but ends up being most cryptic and difficult to understand Kickstarter RPG to date. It's not an easy game to get into, and to people that try to play it regardless it looks literally like clusterfuck.

I don't think that for a niche RPG being TB or RTWP makes it more or less marketable, but it's certainly makes a game much harder sell if potential player can't even tell what the hell is happening on the screen right now. As a counterexample - DOS is much easier to understand by just looking at it. Here's water, here's fire, fire evaporates water and now you get steam instead. In the end this system might not even be that deep or varied, but it's so much easier to demonstrate how this can be fun.

 

[Matticus]

I agree that PoE2 still has far far too much breadth for mainstream players, especially at character creation -- made worse by so-called multiclassing feature being forced to happen at level 1 and locked in forever after. But even when the player enters the game they have to deal with 4 or 5 other party members, their skills, items, combat positioning, and constant bellyaching.

With this in mind, I suppose one could argue that the accessibility changes they've made to dumb down their game have little marketing benefit and might instead cause more detriment for hardcore gamers. I personally play games to be punished. Still, isn't it great that Obsidian exists and can make top-down D&D inspired games even if they are just forum fodder for grognards? I'm thankful.

 

[Jenkem]

THE GAME DID NOT FLOP

 

[fantadomat]

I am also sure that the game will (eventually) break even, so Obsidian is not in danger

For the last time, it doesn't matter whether the game breaks even eventually, it matters whether they have resources to stay afloat. They are not indies. They are medium sized studio with a huge payroll.

For the last time, you should also take into consideration that Obsidian is actually working on other projects. PoE 2 only breaking even is not enough to sink the fucking studio. Not even close.

With this level of writing i wouldn't be surprised if they sell poorly. Obsidian's forte was its writing power,not that is gone there is nothing in it.

 

[Jenkem]

it's about the same fake news and needing of citations as y'all grittin' and spittin' 'bout it being a flop, for Gaun's sake.

 

[vonAchdorf]

I think they knew / realized that it would sell worse than PoE, they can't be less informed than Codex. That's imo why they hiked the price to extract more money from the smaller core audience. And with all the crunch talks ans Sawyer taking a break, it also points in the direction that they didn't expect a runaway success which demanded immediate work on a PoE 3. And if they didn't they probably realized latest when the pre-orders launched.

 

[Bohr]

There's always this approach in the future

 

[fantadomat]

THE GAME DID NOT FLOP

I see what you mean,the game doesn't exist therefore it didn't flop. Smart!

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

THE GAME DID NOT FLOP

It had much more investment and it is selling half of the first game. In which world this is not a flop?

 

[Jenkem]

It had much more investment and it is selling half of the first game. In which world this is not a flop?

in the insurance and/or tax scheme run by feargus

 

[markec]

I am also sure that the game will (eventually) break even, so Obsidian is not in danger

For the last time, it doesn't matter whether the game breaks even eventually, it matters whether they have resources to stay afloat. They are not indies. They are medium sized studio with a huge payroll.

For the last time, you should also take into consideration that Obsidian is actually working on other projects. PoE 2 only breaking even is not enough to sink the fucking studio. Not even close.

It is silly to think that POE2 being a flop would destroy the company but it does call into question DLC and future of isometric RPGs made by Obsidian.

White March was a flop while having a much higher user base, so will Obsidian risk doing another addon that scale or will they decide that burning money is not best business strategy.

Fig backers gave lots of money to Obsidian expecting returns to their investment and with POE2 being a flop its doubtful they will be eager to do it again. Return to Kickstarter doesnt seem like a solution since its obvious that fans response to second crowdfunding was lacking.

Tyranny also unperformed and with POE2 flopping I cant see any publisher hiring them to make a similiar kind of a game.

So POE2 just be the last isometric RPG made by Obsidian in near future.

 

[Sothpaw]

It is silly to think that POE2 being a flop would destroy the company but it does call into question DLC and future of isometric RPGs made by Obsidian.

White March was a flop while having a much higher user base, so will Obsidian risk doing another addon that scale or will they decide that burning money is not best business strategy.

Fig backers gave lots of money to Obsidian expecting returns to their investment and with POE2 being a flop its doubtful they will be eager to do it again. Return to Kickstarter doesnt seem like a solution since its obvious that fans response to second crowdfunding was lacking.

Tyranny also unperformed and with POE2 flopping I cant see any publisher hiring them to make a similiar kind of a game.

So POE2 just be the last isometric RPG made by Obsidian in near future.

So this is the third flop in a row for Obsidian.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

I am also sure that the game will (eventually) break even, so Obsidian is not in danger

For the last time, it doesn't matter whether the game breaks even eventually, it matters whether they have resources to stay afloat. They are not indies. They are medium sized studio with a huge payroll.

For the last time, you should also take into consideration that Obsidian is actually working on other projects. PoE 2 only breaking even is not enough to sink the fucking studio. Not even close.

White March was a flop while having a much higher user base, so will Obsidian risk doing another addon that scale or will they decide that burning money is not best business strategy.

No, that’s a given. There won’t be anything similar to WM, they said it a long time ago. That’s why we get those crappy 3 mini-DLCs they announced shortly before the launch of the game (I already bought the season pass!).

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

Maybe players are having a hangover of isometric games after this avalanche of mediocre isometric games on steam? Just a thought. If they keep making more DCLs, it will only make things worse.