[Poll] Lich

[Jason Liang]

Generally I'd say a lich is an evil wizard who becomes undead through sorcery, usually by binding their lifeforce or soul to a phylactery. They are usually corporal but can also be incorporal (a demilich). What I excluded were evil wizards that sustain immortality through some sort of vampirism, life drain, soul eating or soul transference. This excluded Tremere (vampirism), Shang Tsung (soul eater) and Sheev (cloning + soul transference).

Am Isuel is probably the farthest stretch on the poll. Am is as far as I figured the closest being there is to a lich in the Rance games. Most Darklords and Demon Kings in Rance are vampiric in design. Am becomes immortal by polluting her soul so much that her soul can never be recycled to Ludo (therefore she cannot die).

Ok and I just remembered that Roule Enron also has 100% soul pollution and actually fits a traditional lich archetype.

 

[Dyspaire]

Liches of the Codex; Assemble.

(And it's Vecna by a mile...)

 

[Shaki]

Joe Biden

 

[NJClaw]

The poll is missing Sorcerer Victor, our very own resident lich.

Please fix it so that everyone can change his vote.

 

[The Limper]

Would The Limper from The Black Company (book series by Glen Cook) fit the definition of a lich ? He is an undead wizard trying to overcome the limitations of his decaying body, and he is pissed at the world. But he is himself a servant of an even more powerful wizard.

I looked at the definition of a lich on wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lich) and what it seems to boil down to is: sentient (as opposed to zombies) undead wizard, immortal or seeking immortality. Would you agree with such definition ? Would a lich be necessarily his own master or could he be at the service of another greater entity ?

In the afore-mentioned Black Company books, the great evil has several other ancient wizards that she controls. Wizards can live very long in this world, but are not all depicted as undeads. The Limper in particular is really a rotting corpse staying "alive" only through his magical power.

Are you a lich The Limper ?

“Who awakens me from my Slumber?! My wrath is terrible, my power is not measurable and now!…. your life is forfeit!”

Voldemort is a Necromancer at best, more like just an Evil Mage.

The Ten Who Were Taken were destroyed and resurrected. I dont think they should be considered Undead. Just…. Enhanced and Enthralled to 1st the Dominator and then afterward to the Lady. But their enhancements came with a heavy price…. Almost like a 3rd Edition D&D Prestige Class…

 

[santino27]

The Ten Who Were Taken are still cooler than almost anyone else on this list other than Vecna and some of the other options are really, really stretching the definition of lich, so I'd vote for them anyway.

 

[Fedora Master]

The Ten Who Were Taken are still cooler than almost anyone else on this list other than Vecna and some of the other options are really, really stretching the definition of lich, so I'd vote for them anyway.

Soooo, would you a Lich Bitch?

 

[santino27]

Identical twin to her sister, but double the crazy? Totally.

 

[NecroLord]

Vecna.

Just look at this evil motherfucker

 

[RaggleFraggle]

I think it’s pointless to argue over the definition. Prior to D&D arbitrarily changing the meaning to “undead wizard” or whatever it’s supposed to be (even that definition is steadily diluting over time, as words do), Clark Ashton Smith used it to refer to his zombies because he was writing in the pulp era before the word “zombie” was well known in the Anglosphere. Some neo-pulp stories still use it that way.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Good list. Vecna and Fistandantilus are easy choices, but the last of 3 gets much harder after that. I like spells/cards associated with Geth in MtG. They're usually pretty good. I do enjoy Xykon though.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

To continue from my last post:

The definition of the word is so diluted that all those examples only qualify if you stretch the definition. At least if you’re going by the D&D definition.

What is a lich? What are all the meanings that the word has been used for? (Remember, language is arbitrary and serves a communication purpose so there’s no right or wrong definition so long as everyone agrees on it.)

Here’s what I found:
• A corpse, and general association with death and corpses. This is the original British meaning, and is still used in compounds like lichyard, lich owl, lichhouse, lichway, lichstone, lichfield, etc.
• A reanimated corpse. This usage was pioneered by writers like Clark Ashton Smith. Furthermore, he used it specifically for meatier animated corpses and not walking skeletons, making it a precursor to the D&D zombie. (Outside of D&D, most zombie tales don’t distinguish walking cadavers from walking skeletons.)
• An undead wizard, but not any other undead. This usage was invented by Gygax due to a misunderstanding of the word upon encountering it for the first time in a Kothar the Barbarian story. Because the word had become obsolete by the time Gygax used it, most people’s only encounter with it was through the D&D usage.
• Anyone who uses a horcrux, whether actually dead or not. This definition is used by nerds who compared horcrux users from different stories to each other (such as the D&D lich, which uses a horcrux), even if they were never called liches in their source material. So Sauron, the Nazgul, Voldemort, and numerous other characters are called “liches” as a result.
• An intelligent undead creature that isn’t sexy like vampires. Again, this is used by nerds for purpose of comparison.

(Check tvtropes if you want more examples.)

As you can see, the definition invented by Gygax (which is different from the older definitions) is diluting through use.

 

[Skdursh]

I like the concept of a Lich, I hate the physical design of pretty much every Lich I've ever seen in a game or artwork. Almost always it can be summed up as "LARP nerd playing pretend Wizard gets bitten by a Zombie".

 

[Kruyurk]

Another important aspect seems to be that the lich (as per the D&D meaning) is a powerful being. This implies that it cannot be a trivial character that you would encounter briefly, it has to be a named character, important to the events unfolding. This make them clearly distinct from other undeads (although in some settings vampires could get the same treatment). Having this separate category for the most powerfuls of undeads makes greater impact than saying: "this one is also an undead like the hordes of skeletons and zombies encountered prior, but this time it is a much more powerful being!". When it comes to a lich, you know things are getting serious.

 

[Jason Liang]

Credit where credit's due - this ad is what got me interested in D&D, and Eldamar is what caught my imagination.

 

[buffalo bill]

Does Arcanum's Kerghan count as a lich?

 

[The Limper]

What about…

Dennis McKiernan’s Modru?
Terry Brooks’ the Warlock Lord?

My fave Lich is the Srinshee from Myth Drannor. She was the most powerful of the Baelnorn, Elven Wizards granted Lichdom by the Seldarine. No Phylactery required.

I also believe there was an ultra-powerful Lich of the Netherese, but the name is alluding me. (Edit: Duh, it was Larloch)

 

[0sacred]

Azalin needs more love, but he is arguably overshadowed and outwitted by his nemesis, Lord Strahd.



In my head I always picture these two big baddies making up and cuddling, but we all know Strahd would be the big spoon.

 

[King Crispy]

Hey, I'm only eight votes behind Vecna!

(Vecna's a pussy, by the way. Did you know he had severe astigmatism in wizard school? We all used to tell him he'd lose his eyesight one day. Ha! Get it?)

 

[NecroLord]

Does Arcanum's Kerghan count as a lich?

No.
Kerghan was not undead and only went to the Void because he was banished by Nasrudin&Co. In his journal,however,he says that he wanted to go there in search of power and out of genuine curiosity and lust for knowledge.
Also,Kerghan discovered the Necromantic Black magick school when he was still on Arcanum and a member of the Elven Council,and did not become a Lich or undead creature. He was the only human that became member of the Council,that's how powerful he was.

 

[Tao]

Daurgothoth​

a lich and a dragon. good luck biach

 

[Kruyurk]

Kangaxx, Xykon, some of these would make great names for medicine. Fistandantilus could be a cream to soothe butthurt people.

Sir Crispy on the other hand sounds like cheap imitation of Rice Krispies.

 

[JarlFrank]

I think it’s pointless to argue over the definition. Prior to D&D arbitrarily changing the meaning to “undead wizard” or whatever it’s supposed to be (even that definition is steadily diluting over time, as words do), Clark Ashton Smith used it to refer to his zombies because he was writing in the pulp era before the word “zombie” was well known in the Anglosphere. Some neo-pulp stories still use it that way.

And his zombies were more like mummies. Just an animated corpse with skin and desiccated flesh, rather than the lumbering zombie we know.

Dead laborers made their palace-gardens to bloom with long-perished flowers; liches and skeletons toiled for them in the mines, or reared superb, fantastic towers to the dying sun. Chamberlains and princes of old time were their cupbearers, and stringed instruments were plucked for their delight by the slim hands of empresses with golden hair that had come forth untarnished from the night of the tomb. Those that were fairest, whom the plague and the worm had not ravaged overmuch, they took for their lemans and made to serve their necrophilic lust.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

I think it’s pointless to argue over the definition. Prior to D&D arbitrarily changing the meaning to “undead wizard” or whatever it’s supposed to be (even that definition is steadily diluting over time, as words do), Clark Ashton Smith used it to refer to his zombies because he was writing in the pulp era before the word “zombie” was well known in the Anglosphere. Some neo-pulp stories still use it that way.

And his zombies were more like mummies. Just an animated corpse with skin and desiccated flesh, rather than the lumbering zombie we know.

Dead laborers made their palace-gardens to bloom with long-perished flowers; liches and skeletons toiled for them in the mines, or reared superb, fantastic towers to the dying sun. Chamberlains and princes of old time were their cupbearers, and stringed instruments were plucked for their delight by the slim hands of empresses with golden hair that had come forth untarnished from the night of the tomb. Those that were fairest, whom the plague and the worm had not ravaged overmuch, they took for their lemans and made to serve their necrophilic lust.

Yeah. Clark had a way with words. I’m disappointed that “zombie” has displaced “lich” as the word of choice for animated corpses. It has that Anglo-Saxon feel to it.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Vecna and Azalin for me.
I'm a Ravenloft fanboy, fite me.