[Poll] Troika

[Lawntoilet]

Arcanum is a broken and borderline unplayable mess and one of the most overrated games on the Codex.

Bloodlines on the other hand is a fucking masterpiece and deserves all the praise it gets.

I have little opinion on ToEE other than that I guess it's alright.

These are the three sides that form the triangle of balance that is Troika game development.

The Troika catalog is not a triangle.
It is 3 planes of Incline, like this:
/ / /

 

[JarlFrank]

- Bangelian Scourge

Haha fuck, now I remember finding an unidentified sword with mad damage in a dungeon I found in my explorations. Equipped it, used it, it was great. But then suddenly Magnus left my party because I'm too evil???
Checked my alignment, it was at +100 before and now it was at -100
?????????????????????????????????
Went to that gypsy lady in Shrouded Hills to get it identified, and found out the sword lowers alignment with each hit.

Such a great fucking game.

 

[CappenVarra]

Fallout has gun porn

i love FO1 more than the average codexer, but gun porn - it has not; firearm itemization is one of the first things that need radical improvement in a dreamed-up sequel

 

[Darth Canoli]

It has a good enough variety with different sound effects for most weapons and good ones at that, a good itemization and a good item progression (except for lucky characters /metagamers going full energy weapon from the start, which is fine for anything but the first playthrough).

I'd take that over 1 billion shitty weapons and a retarded itemization you can find in so many games (diablo, DOS, Wasteland 2, ...)

Then again, Arcanum combines a great quest design with some more controversial features, so, good game, great even if you look at what we have so far but not the pinnacle of anything.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Arcanum... not the pinnacle of anything.

 

[curds]

Because I disagree overall with the opinion that it sucks.

I never said that it sucks. I said it's poor, ie. not great.

As I said I like the aesthetic of it

I 100% agree with you on that point. I love the aesthetic, and I think Arcanum absolutely excels in the art department. I even made a thread about it. In this case I was talking about the functionality of the UI, not the aesthetics.

but rather my high opinion of the itemization ... crafting, and pickpocket system, all of which use the inventory, so I just lumped the inventory in as being "great" also.

Exactly. Those are great mechanics/systems, but they are not the UI/inventory.

The Troika catalog is not a triangle.
It is 3 planes of Incline, like this:
/ / /

not the pinnacle of anything.

Arcanum is the pinnacle of actual role-playing* in CRPGs.

*As opposed to TES-style LARPing, which is role-playing not recognised by the game's systems.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Because I disagree overall with the opinion that it sucks.

I never said that it sucks. I said it's poor, ie. not great.

As I said I like the aesthetic of it

I 100% agree with you on that point. I love the aesthetic, and I think Arcanum absolutely excels in the art department. I even made a thread about it. In this case I was talking about the functionality of the UI, not the aesthetics.

but rather my high opinion of the itemization ... crafting, and pickpocket system, all of which use the inventory, so I just lumped the inventory in as being "great" also.

Exactly. Those are great mechanics/systems, but they are not the UI/inventory.

The Troika catalog is not a triangle.
It is 3 planes of Incline, like this:
/ / /

not the pinnacle of anything.

Arcanum is the pinnacle of actual role-playing* in CRPGs.

*As opposed to TES-style LARPing, which is role-playing not recognised by the game's systems.

 

[Ol' Willy]

In this case I was talking about the functionality of the UI, not the aesthetics.

I found Arcanum UI perfectly functional. I have seen many worse UIs and very few better ones.

 

[Lord_Potato]

I like inventory tetris, especially combined with weight limitations.

Inventory tetris is superior to other ways of presentation because it gives the idea of the relative size of individual objects and limits how many of certain type you can carry.

It's stupid in BG that a bunch of arrows or slingshot bullets occupy the same spot as full set of plate armor.

Traversing through Fallout list inventories is timeconsuming and painful in the long run (without mods that support mouse wheel and item filters). And those inventories allow you to carry a dozen bazookas or several power armors provided you have the strength, because items in list inventories don't have size, a problem that is elegantly solved by inventory tetris.

 

[Dramart]

It's stupid in BG that a bunch of arrows or slingshot bullets occupy the same spot as full set of plate armor.

Really nigga? It's stupid that they can carry so much shit in the first place. Tetris inventory isn't better.

 

[Lord_Potato]

It's stupid in BG that a bunch of arrows or slingshot bullets occupy the same spot as full set of plate armor.

Really nigga? It's stupid that they can carry so much shit in the first place. Tetris inventory isn't better.

It's still not perfect, but much better. If the armor actually takes 10x more space than a bunch of arrows, you won't be carryng a dozen armors in your inventory.

I also support a weight limit (not hard, you should be able to carry a little more, but with increasingly punishing handicaps when it comes to movement speed and fighting prowess).

 

[anvi]

TOEE is really cool, the others are shit. Bloodlines should have cut down some of the quantity to have better combat on fewer factions.

 

[Lawntoilet]

TOEE is really cool, the others are shit.

 

[Dramart]

It's stupid in BG that a bunch of arrows or slingshot bullets occupy the same spot as full set of plate armor.

Really nigga? It's stupid that they can carry so much shit in the first place. Tetris inventory isn't better.

It's still not perfect, but much better. If the armor actually takes 10x more space than a bunch of arrows, you won't be carryng a dozen armors in your inventory.

I also support a weight limit (not hard, you should be able to carry a little more, but with increasingly punishing handicaps when it comes to movement speed and fighting prowess).

I don't think they're better, with them you run out of space ofthen, because of that they can be annoying too and time consuming because you have to go back to the shop to make space or sacrifice items.

 

[Lord_Potato]

So be it. When I have this choice, I usually sacrifice items.

I don't think your main role in rpgs should be the main supplier of used goods to local weapons and armor shops.

 

[Dramart]

So be it. When I have this choice, I usually sacrifice items.

I don't think your main role in rpgs should be the main supplier of used goods to local weapons and armor shops.

Well but it's not better

 

[Lord_Potato]

So be it. When I have this choice, I usually sacrifice items.

I don't think your main role in rpgs should be the main supplier of used goods to local weapons and armor shops.

Well but it's not better

Funny. It appears that such things are subjective.

 

[Carrion]

I don't think they're better, with them you run out of space ofthen, because of that they can be annoying too and time consuming because you have to go back to the shop to make space or sacrifice items.

You say it like it's a bad thing. Is it really better to mindlessly hoard wagonloads of stuff that you'll have to deal with every time you try to access something from your inventory?

Arcanum could've used better auto-sorting, but the inventory system is still one of the better ones out there.

 

[Dramart]

Funny. It appears that such things are subjective.

yeah true, but is not funny

 

[Ol' Willy]

Auto-sorting is for plebs, real men sort all their stuff manually

 

[Lilliput McHammersmith]

I wonder if the people who think Arcanum's combat is "irritating" think NWN's combat is fine in comparison

Honestly NWN's combat is far superior to Arcanum. So is Fallout's, so are a lot of games. It is hard to tell if you hit or miss in Arcanum, and overall it just feels bad. NWN and Fallout are very clear when you hit or miss. Overall, their combat is far superior to Arcanum. I'm sure Arcanum is a great game, but it is difficult for me to get into it because the combat sucks so bad.

However, I am open to changing my mind. I started playing Gothic recently after many failed attempts and I was actually having fun because the controls finally clicked for me. Maybe Arcanum will click for me one day too.

 

[JarlFrank]

NWN might be fine mechanically, but its encounters are usually filler shit, you only control a single character in a D&D game (lol wut), and it's incredibly slow. Playing as a fighter literally consists of clicking on an enemy to attack, then waiting for 2 full minutes while occasionally quaffing a potion until your character has cut his way through the enemy trash mob in excruciatingly slow combat that only has one action every 6 seconds.

Meanwhile Arcanum's trash fights are completely over and done with after 6 seconds.

If the combat isn't tactically interesting (which neither NWN's nor Arcanum's really are), I much prefer it to be over quickly than for it to be a waste of time that drags on and on and on.

 

[Lilliput McHammersmith]

NWN might be fine mechanically, but its encounters are usually filler shit, you only control a single character in a D&D game (lol wut), and it's incredibly slow. Playing as a fighter literally consists of clicking on an enemy to attack, then waiting for 2 full minutes while occasionally quaffing a potion until your character has cut his way through the enemy trash mob in excruciatingly slow combat that only has one action every 6 seconds.

Meanwhile Arcanum's trash fights are completely over and done with after 6 seconds.

If the combat isn't tactically interesting (which neither NWN's nor Arcanum's really are), I much prefer it to be over quickly than for it to be a waste of time that drags on and on and on.

Sure and I agree that almost all encounters within the NWN OC are terrible, but combat itself is much meatier and clearer than Arcanum. I definitely agree about the single character bit as well, because that is massive shit, but as compared to Fallout/Arcanum it's the exact same there. But yes, playing a fighter in most D&D games is pretty boring and sucky, and NWN is no exception there. Playing almost any other kind of class is much more enjoyable than playing a pure fighter.

 

[JarlFrank]

I find Arcanum's combat quite adequate for a single character RPG. In turn based, you have enough tactical control over a situation that you can win hard fights with some effort (use grenades, spells, etc), but when you want to get a fight over with quickly you switch to real time and slice your way through the enemies in 5 seconds.

I never felt the combat to be unclear, even in the rapidly fast real time mode. Every swing tells you whether it's a hit, miss, crit, etc.

 

[Lilliput McHammersmith]

I find Arcanum's combat quite adequate for a single character RPG. In turn based, you have enough tactical control over a situation that you can win hard fights with some effort (use grenades, spells, etc), but when you want to get a fight over with quickly you switch to real time and slice your way through the enemies in 5 seconds.

I never felt the combat to be unclear, even in the rapidly fast real time mode. Every swing tells you whether it's a hit, miss, crit, etc.

Maybe I'm just retarded, but I could not tell aside from the health bar moving whether I was hitting or not. Also in terms of animation, Fallout is significantly better in every regard. The dodging, the sound effects, the combat log. All top-notch. I played it for the first time a few weeks ago. It was great. I tried getting into Arcanum afterwards but it just wasn't as clear.