Prestigious Battle - FFT or Tactics Ogre

[Carls Barkley]

Don't have time to play both. I already have the original PS1 versions, but am willing to get the PSP remasters if necessary.

 

[Damned Registrations]

FFT hands down. Way more variety in mechanics. All the different reaction skills, movement skills, and supports make it a tinker's dream.

I'd say it also wins on art, music, and story but honestly it's the mechanics that made me fall in love with that game.

 

[Hyperion]

Tactics Ogre (SNES), and it's not close. Better party management and building (10 characters at any given time) with slightly less bullshit to exploit mechanically. 3 wholly different paths with better characters and a MUCH better protagonist in each one of them, except maybe C Denim. Much better antagonists than generic muh evil Church conspiracy. Permanency of character development is a big incline - there's no erasing past decisions by just surrounding a chocobo and stealing its money for 15 minutes. Way better endgame side dungeon with better itemization. Snapshot swords were on par with using T.G. Cid but came with the hefty, hefty pricetag of giving up a character for the good of the cause. The game had better pacing - if you knew what you were doing, not once did you have to stop the action and start doing silly odd jobs and wandering between towns for 18 - 21 ingame days for a pittance of job points. Not training just added to the challenge of the game, and upped the ante of battles.

It's Matsuno's opus, and isn't regarded as so because it doesn't have the iconic name attached to it.

 

[Delterius]

Don't have time to play both.

find the time, pls

also am I the only person who played Knight of Lodis

 

[Carls Barkley]

After doing some more research, I think I'm going with Tactics Ogre. I like the idea of a 10 character party and branching storyline (which is supposedly darker and less cliche).

Follow up question, is it worth looking into Suikoden II or Vagrant Story to play afterwards? I'm not typically into JRPGs, but I've heard these are exceptionally unique.

 

[Modron]

The correct answer is Front Mission.

 

[Ysaye]

After doing some more research, I think I'm going with Tactics Ogre. I like the idea of a 10 character party and branching storyline (which is supposedly darker and less cliche).

Follow up question, is it worth looking into Suikoden II or Vagrant Story to play afterwards? I'm not typically into JRPGs, but I've heard these are exceptionally unique.

Tactics Ogre is a good choice IMO.

As for your follow-up question, Suikoden 2 I think especially if you are not a JRPG fan BUT you find you enjoy Tactics Ogre; this will spare you a lot of common JRPG tropes; it still has cutesy / cheesy / joke-y moments (The cooking mini game springs to mind, as does Viki, interactions between Tengaar and Hix etc.) but they are much much less prominent than the tragic ones - there are a lot of good characters that suffer and die and characters are also a lot grey-er than normal - "good characters" do some (arguably) pretty bad things and vice versa at times. One thing though is that some of the characters have "history" from the first game that whilst not being critical (I have never played the first game) will help explain certain references that are not explained within the game.

 

[Hyperion]

Don't have time to play both.

find the time, pls

also am I the only person who played Knight of Lodis

Nah, I own the cartridge. Could never be assed to get the A+ ending just to see Alphonse atop a horse, lacking depth perception tho. It was....OK, but the shrunken party size, reduced difficulty, and the badges left a mediocre taste in my mouth.

After doing some more research, I think I'm going with Tactics Ogre. I like the idea of a 10 character party and branching storyline (which is supposedly darker and less cliche).

Follow up question, is it worth looking into Suikoden II or Vagrant Story to play afterwards? I'm not typically into JRPGs, but I've heard these are exceptionally unique.

There's not a single Matsuno game that isn't worth playing at least once. I need to get my ass in gear and play Crimson Shroud one of these days....

As for S2, since it's not Matsuno, yeah it's worth a play. But you're better off playing S1 first, since they share quite a few characters, and story elements. S3 was my personal favorite of the series, by quite a large margin too, I might add. The 3 protagonist route worked REALLY well, with getting to see some major events through 3 sets of eyes (Side A, Side B, and Outsiders) was really well done. One of the few games where political and racial hatred felt real between characters.

 

[Damned Registrations]

slightly less bullshit to exploit mechanically

Seriously? TO has literally nothing to exploit except minor modifiers to damage. "Ooh I'm standing on grass instead of dirt, that's +5% to damage for matching my earth element!" Can't even come close to the depth FFT has with variable speed on spells and other actions, things like lancers being off the field to dodge aoe attacks, breaking equipment, like 5 times as many status effects, zodiac matching, brave/faith mechanics, attacks and spells that damage enemy stats or cause damage based on current or max hp... it's like saying checkers is slightly less complex than chess.

Also, Delita's story is far more interesting than the side shit about the church. The stones are honestly a sideshow, they don't influence the war at all, which is what the story is really about. I can't even remember the plot of TO beyond something about fantasy gypsies being oppressed and some lame demon wizard shit at the very end out of nowhere and your sister being a huge slut.

 

[Hyperion]

Actually that quote was referring to cheesy mechanics like Haborym's Petrify Spam VS Leveling Down, the existence of Orlandu, Calculators, Dark Knights (if we're including WOTL), Blade Grasp, Hamedo against Humanoids, Scream spamming, wearing Chantage, weapon duping (for ps1).

Can't even come close to the depth FFT has with variable speed on spells and other actions, things like lancers being off the field to dodge aoe attacks, breaking equipment, like 5 times as many status effects, zodiac matching, brave/faith mechanics, attacks and spells that damage enemy stats or cause damage based on current or max hp...

Every single one of these mechanics you mentioned are worthless except for the Zodiac sign. Jump? Who the fuck wants to wait 17 turns to land a jump when I can 2h a Lance and do more damage? Instantly, I might add.

Brave is meaningless except for Knight Swords and Katanas and a couple of reactiom based skills. And oh boy lets stand still and Scream / Cheer spam a bit so we can max out our Brave. How fun

Faith? Magic is garbage because it takes too long to cast. Who the fuck is gonna cast Cyclops with its CT of 10, and you take 50% more damage for the duration of the charge. Orlandu will actually clear an entire level before that spell goes off.

I know, I know you were butthurt that Denim got some MVPs, massively outleveled the enemy and you could then stomp an entire team with him because you were so overleveled. Except in FFT you can do that not with Denim, but any generic character, and it doesnt even require a specofic, brain numbingly boring strategy to do either. Lets also ignore the fact that for over 50% of the game you have Agrias who stomps everything in her path in 1 hit, and even has access to an Accessory that makes her literally invincible.

The entirety of FFT story is a rehash of Tactics Ogre, from the internal power struggle of the Knights Templar using the game's lone supernatural force with the protagonist's sister as the catalyst. Mind you, this is all happening from the shadows while an infant sits on the throne, leading countries to rebel, due partially to mistreatment of a specific, small group of oppressed people. Except Ramza never once faves a moral dilemma anywhere near Denim's, such as slaughtering 5,000 innocents to galvanize a revolution, or going back and making peace with the Duke who performed said massacre to look at the bigger picture and save his country from being taken over again by its oppressors. Or making the decision to potentially leave behind Selye, one of his childhood friends in Bacrum (who saved him from drowning as a kid) while she sits in captivity being tortured and gangraped by the Templar Knights so as to not lose the momentum he gained by repelling Gargastani attacks, leaving them severely crippled in the process.

Oh, and regarding Tactics Ogre'a mechanics - Alignment determines classes and damage with Holy and Dark, performance at night / day. Elements determine damage against other enemies with opposing elements, or weapons enchanted with said elements. Every class has a favored weapon that causes a 25% difference in damage dealt. Speed actually determines your hit, block, and dodge chance, and is determined partially by your gear, so what you equip matters beyond just basic stats. Spears actually pierce through enemies, which you can use to cause some real mayhem. Spells are cast instantly, so Mages don't suck by nature of the game mechanics. Classes like Terror Knights have invisible auras that make enemies deal less damage with a lower hit chance. Dragoons do extra damage to dragons. Beast Tamers strengthen nearby beasts. Reviving a character is both costly and risky, and there's only 1 resurrect spell in the game. No 3 turns to end a battle bullshit.

FFT is good. Great even. But you fanboy too hard for the inferior game, especially since it seems you don't understand TO very well.


P.S. - Tactics Ogre has a hidden ending that can only be obtained if you use the Persuasion skill Denim has to recruit enough people of every ingame Nationality to raise your Fame with them (so as to not kill them). So, a semi-pacifist run is also possible.

 

[Swigen]

 

[TigerKnee]

Jump? Who the fuck wants to wait 17 turns to land a jump when I can 2h a Lance and do more damage? Instantly, I might add.

Jump's range has it uses and if you just want a really strong basic Attack, Ninjas is comparatively easier to access vs building to both Dragoons and Samurai. Dragoons being stuck with Heavy Armor also generally isn't an advantage once Twist Headbands / Power Sleeves are available and the 2H Lance builds generally only has a niche once Javelin 2 and its 30-something WP come into play

Faith? Magic is garbage because it takes too long to cast. Who the fuck is gonna cast Cyclops with its CT of 10, and you take 50% more damage for the duration of the charge. Orlandu will actually clear an entire level before that spell goes off.

I don't know if you picked Cyclops specifically or if you just needed something for hyperbole but the actual strong Summon Magic spells are Leviathan and Ramuh / Shiva in the PSX version.

A lot of people don't understand Charge Times and that's why they have the impression that Magic sucks but it's actually a stronger option for most of the game - the Black Mage / Summon Magic build is one of the easiest to win the game with, extremely effective and only really requires around 2-3 spells from each class. It's only until post-game at very high levels that they can't keep up with instant attack even with Short Charge. The Time Mage SCC actually ends the game at like level 23 and that's a challenge run.

It's also a bit silly to use Orlandeau as an argument in this because he joins 75% into the game after some of the hardest battles are already over (the Riovanes Castle stint)

 

[Hyperion]

Jump's range has it uses and if you just want a really strong basic Attack, Ninjas is comparatively easier to access vs building to both Dragoons and Samurai. Dragoons being stuck with Heavy Armor also generally isn't an advantage once Twist Headbands / Power Sleeves are available and the 2H Lance builds generally only has a niche once Javelin 2 and its 30-something WP come into play

You're missing the point here. This isn't the first (or 2nd) time DR sperged out because I mentioned I liked Tactics Ogre more than FFT. And I wasn't going into inter-class comparisons, I was just making a sarcastic remark that Jump is mostly shit when doublehand will offer more damage than Jump, and for way less investment, since Jump requires you to grab 2 high level, expensive abilities to be of any practical use instead of 1. Jump's use is extremely limited given how turn order typically plays out, since enemies are always given preference with CT given identical speeds.

I don't know if you picked Cyclops specifically or if you just needed something for hyperbole

it's the slowest, lunkiest shit spell I can recall off the top of my head that serves a newb trap since it's strong and expensive. The fact that low level spells are better, and more useful than the actual high level ones because of their speed really only further supports my argument since there's no point in any of those abilities. Black Mage is one of the most expensive classes to Master, and the average person would want to master it if their character is going to be a Mage. All a testament to how poorly designed magic is, since your stats scale from gear well beyond what enemy HP ever does that you 1 shot with everything, so you may as well use the fastest attacks in every scenario. But in most cases, you're still better off attacking because there's no delay, and no extra damage risk. Or just give your mage Samurai as a sub-skill and utilize her high magic attack that way. Insta-cast, higher damage, and bigger AoE than magic. And the Kikuichimonji range is just dumb.

It's also a bit silly to use Orlandeau

Of course, you only use him to min/max your party since he has higher natty strength than Agrias by virtue of a better base class and by being a dude. Practically, you're just gonna strip him of the Excalibur and give it to her if you just want to end the game. Leveling down exploit on Agrias is probably faster than actually learning all the requisite abilities for Orlandu anyway. Plus, all of his bonus sword skills are mostly useless and situational anyway. You're still going to Lightning Stab / Holy Explosion 90% of the time. But that ignores the fact you have Agrias for 75% of the game, and she's an invincible killing machine even before you get Orlandu. And the goddamn remake decided she wasn't strong enough, and gave her an even better perfume.

It's just that as far as I'm concerned, TO wins out because of larger party size, and the fact you don't need to needlessly grind classes to test out combinations, or to get the most out of your characters. You create builds by playing the game and logically progressing to higher level classes that are even more specialized than their lower tier counterpart. The only real damn shame about Tactics Ogre is Knights suck, and if your Knight is L just shelf him because Swordmasters are crap if you've been leveling the character as a Knight.

 

[TigerKnee]

Jump's use is extremely limited given how turn order typically plays out, since enemies are always given preference with CT given identical speeds.

But that's incorrect - unless the enemies are hitting you first with an alpha strike that puts you down (which they usually don't), enemies going first at speed ties is a huge advantage to skills with a Charge Time due to the way Clockticks work.

Scenario 1:
Your lancer and the enemy has 10 SP.
The enemy goes first, his CT resets to 0, your Lancer goes, he makes the jump on a 0 CT target.

Scenario 2:
Your lancer has 10 SP and the enemy has 9 SP
Your lancer goes first. The enemy CT is at 90, meaning you can't make the jump and have to do something else.

Black Mage is one of the most expensive classes to Master, and the average person would want to master it if their character is going to be a Mage.

Is that statement supposed to be read as "the average person would be fooled into thinking they need to master a class because the design does not match up to practical reality?"

Because for experienced players, you really only need Bolt 1, Magic Attack Up, Ice 2 and then maybe Flare from the entire skillset.

From a game design perspective, having 4 optimal picks out of the 16 or so spells in the skillset is not a good show, but if we're talking about the raw power that an experienced player can bring out then practically speaking it's pretty cheap JP-wise.

Since your stats scale from gear well beyond what enemy HP ever does that you 1 shot with everything, so you may as well use the fastest attacks in every scenario. But in most cases, you're still better off attacking because there's no delay, and no extra damage risk.

Most of the physical job classes in FFT - that's where most of the instant attacks come from unless you want to make an argument for Oracle using sticks, are terrible. Monks are probably the best ones until you finally manage to dig out of the hole into Ninja, but I really don't think Monks can one shot several units in a single action until perhaps Bracers show up and the enemies line up really nicely for you for Earth Slash. It's still easy by SRPG standards but I assure you that Mage builds are much faster

Or just give your mage Samurai as a sub-skill and utilize her high magic attack that way. Insta-cast, higher damage, and bigger AoE than magic. And the Kikuichimonji range is just dumb.

Wizard / Draw Out is a really good build, but it's kind of "going out of the way" and if you're going to have to build all the way to Samurai and then sit in a bad class for a while to learn the skillset you should probably be rewarded for your efforts.

But that ignores the fact you have Agrias for 75% of the game, and she's an invincible killing machine even before you get Orlandu.

Only because the enemy standards are poor in FFT, but to get the most out of Agrias there's actually quite some investment you need to do as Holy Knight is a horrid class coupled with her female PA. Perfumes are also the sort of thing you would need an guide to come across so considering that as an "average player" thing is unlikely.

 

[Karwelas]

Both of these are wrong, there is a third answer!

Spoiler

Pokemon Conquest.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Yeah pretty much all his arguments come from the perspective of some hyper autist that feels compelled to grind to level 99 to see the numbers go up. Played normally, you'll likely switch to summoner after having unlocked (and found quite useful) a few low level spells with the wizard and time mage and moved on out of curiosity. Jump is incredibly potent and you really only need range 6 or so and height 2 or 3, which is fairly cheap. Lancer also has one of the best reaction skills in the game. Ninja is pretty much OP across the board, but also fairly hard to reach and a cool reward for sticking it out past a lame class like thief and archer.

And my point was that the game mechanics are creative. +X% damage because of some matching affinity bullshit isn't interesting. Taking a character off the board for half his turn so you can target him with a slow ass friendly fire spell, move him on top of a crowd of enemies that moved out of the way (and didn't attack because they needed to avoid certain doom) and jump while rocks fall and only the enemies die, is an interesting and clever build. Equipping a berserker with an axe because axes do 25% more damage is not interesting. Giving an archer the ability to teleport by training him as a mage first so he can reach extremely high spots on the map is interesting. Dragon tamers doing slightly more damage to an enemy you'll pretty much never encounter is not interesting.

You know why I'm butthurt about TO? Because I took the time to unlock and try all the classes, and they were all boring as fuck. It's like if you were playing FFT but never spent any JP on anything. Fuck, Monks, just by themselves, have more ability variety than the entire class roster in TO. They have a long range weak piercing beam attack with an earth elemental, an ability to restore small amounts of health and mp to themselves and nearby allies, an ability to revive an ally but with mediocre chances and only on perfectly flat terrain (which is somewhat rare in FFT) a short distance single target attack with some good vertical range, and ability that causes an enemy to die after taking 3 turns, a generic counter attack that works on most anything, along with a much more expensive specialized counter attack vs weapons that prevents the damage as well but doesn't work on a bunch of stuff, an ability that can restore their hp to full if they get hit and end up at critical health, and a few more on top of that. And you pick and choose which of those things you want and if you want to tack them onto another class. Half the classes in TO have literally no abilities, just slightly different stats. The difference between a soldier, knight and berserker, dragoon, beast tamer and terror knight is basically nothing and none of them are worth using no matter how you play the game.

PS Eagle jesus is way more broken than agrias and you get him from the very beginning of the game.

 

[Alex]

Ogre Battle.

 

[Hyperion]

Giving an archer the ability to teleport by training him as a mage first so he can reach extremely high spots on the map is interesting.

Warp Shoes. Warp Ring. Wing Ring. Wing Shoes in TO. And I didn't even need to waste time and levels playing as a class that looks like John Wayne Gacy sans makeup.

Taking a character off the board for half his turn so you can target him with a slow ass friendly fire spell, move him on top of a crowd of enemies that moved out of the way (and didn't attack because they needed to avoid certain doom) and jump while rocks fall and only the enemies die, is an interesting and clever build.

No, it's just slow as balls considering nearly every attack in FFT is a 1-2 OHKO once you reach Ch. 2.

Equipping a berserker with an axe because axes do 25% more damage is not interesting

No, but all axes beyond the first are two-handed and extremely heavy. Do you tradeoff dodge, and hit chance, plus turn order for some extra destructive power? Or do you make him a defensive juggernaut with a weaker weapon and shield? Or do you give him a crossbow in his offhand so he can snipe distant enemies (and its incredible when fighting at a height disadvantage too)? Do you ignore armor entirely and give him just a weapon? Or perhaps you sacrifice his speed entirely in exchange for wearing the Ogre set for a guaranteed 999 Attack and Defense? Maybe even give that set to a Wizard to make him into a lumbering beast who can fry enemies from afar.

Perhaps I can bring a bunch of witches with Paradigm to make my Tank a 0 WT machine who goes 7 times before an enemy can move? Sounds like you didn't give the game any thought because you dismissed it before even trying.

Maybe I can let my Priestess die so she can become a flying, spear wielding, holy magic casting Angel Knight?

Because I took the time to unlock and try all the classes, and they were all boring as fuck.

You unlock the classes by simply playing the game, as they logically progress from one class to the next. Terror Knight is the only basic class that requires a special inveatment of 30 kills. And it makes sense thematically since he's surrounded by the spirits of those he killed (which in turn terrifies enemies), unlike Lancer requiring Geomancer and Archer because why the fuck not.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Warp Shoes. Warp Ring. Wing Ring. Wing Shoes in TO. And I didn't even need to waste time and levels playing as a class that looks like John Wayne Gacy sans makeup.

No you just needed to read a guide or autistically step on every tile on every map in the entire game.

No, it's just slow as balls considering nearly every attack in FFT is a 1-2 OHKO once you reach Ch. 2.

It's literally the same speed as simply attacking. Casting spells doesn't delay your next turn. And you were massively grinding if you were one shotting anything except a wizard charging a spell.

No, but all axes beyond the first are two-handed and extremely heavy. Do you tradeoff dodge, and hit chance, plus turn order for some extra destructive power? Or do you make him a defensive juggernaut with a weaker weapon and shield? Or do you give him a crossbow in his offhand so he can snipe distant enemies (and its incredible when fighting at a height disadvantage too)?

None of that shit is even close to relevant. You're talking about trivially small differences in stats here. "Defensive juggernaut". Top kek. You're talking about the difference between wearing leather or chain for like 90% of the game. The weight difference across all your equipment might be like 40 more than lightweight gear, so maybe like a 10% speed boost. Meanwhile the defensive aspect is even more trivial, giving you like 10% less damage taken from physical hits vs a completely naked character. You could literally just equip everyone at complete fucking random and assign classes at random too and you wouldn't even need to play any differently.

You're sperging out about how deep the game is after you've gotten every item and there's nothing left to fight except random encounters you can blow away with completely overlevelled characters. Nobody cares. In a normal playthrough of TO you're just trading hits with people that all can't do anything except swing a melee weapon for like 30 hours. It's completely braindead and your 3% vs 6% defense helmet decision doesn't make the game engaging.

 

[Hyperion]

No you just needed to read a guide or autistically step on every tile on every map in the entire game.

....What? Warp Shoes are a guaranteed drop from a story battle. Rime Chapter 3, from a Terror Knight. He's either the boss, or on a grunt on the right side of the map depending on the path you took. Warp Ring is guaranteed in Hell Gate, with a few more RNG-based if you're lucky. Wing Ring and Shoes are found on enemies occasionally in story battles, usually very hard to get via RNG, which you can eliminate if you use Persuasion with Denim. But that requires you to alter your playstyle because you need to get close, weaken them, and avoid a killing blow / counter. Ironic someone with an Undertale avatar would ignore the pacifist function the game offers you. And like I said before, there's a special ending that requires you to use it. A lot.

It's getting pretty sad watching you make up arguments from thin air to try and denigrate a game you didn't like that you were essentially bad at, had to resort to massively overleveling the enemy, and refused to take the time to experiment. Or you were just butthurt because it boiled down to TO =/= FFT, and by the power of the tranisitive property means TO = BAD.

You're talking about the difference between wearing leather or chain for like 90% of the game.

Because your stats matter more than equipment. Which means the levels you gain in a class actually matter beyond 0.09 fractional points of PA / MA. AKA your class choice actually matters. You're also underselling armor's importance when 10% damage reduction (which is an arbitrary bullshit number ofc, because you have to make up shitty arguments when your only gripe is TACTICS OGRE ISN'T FFT THEREFORE BAD) when your characters have 200 - 250 HP at the end of the game. The game actually offers damage reduction, unlike FFT where all damage is set is stone except for Zodiac matching and the Protect spell, which nobody ever uses. I know because I've made Denim a bipedal Humvee as a Terror Knight countless times while the rest of my team picks off the enemies from afar after they've blown their load on an indestructible wall of meat. On the other hand, if an area is loaded with no magic users, I can just move Haborym up and have him dodge tank like a boss since his speed is through the roof. The only enemies that can hit him at the end of the game are Dark Stalkers in Hell Gate.

The weight difference across all your equipment might be like 40 more than lightweight gear, so maybe like a 10% speed boost

Again, also affects hit and dodge chance. Don't believe me? Check out CH. 3 when the Baldur gear becomes available, and you fully equip a melee unit in it. They can't hit dogshit, and at that point in the game L-size characters like dragons are actually better than your heavy fighters because their natural stat growth gives better hit and dodge rates until the humanoid WT normalizes a bit with higher levels.

You're sperging out about how deep the game is after you've gotten every item

The Ogre set is the only endgame example. And it should be reserved for the endgame since it makes you into a walking Sherman tank.

It's completely braindead and your 3% vs 6% defense helmet decision doesn't make the game engaging.

You're going to say gearing is brain dead compared to FFT when you're just going to use Twist Headbands for the entirety of the game once they're available? Except for *maybe* a Flash or Thief hat at the very end? Same deal with a Power Sleeve.

 

[Delterius]

tbh if you're reading this because you can't decide, just play all matsuno's games and try not to sperg too much -- they aren't that hard

 

[Damned Registrations]

The Ogre set is the only endgame example.

Warp Shoes are a guaranteed drop from a story battle. Rime Chapter 3, from a Terror Knight. He's either the boss, or on a grunt on the right side of the map depending on the path you took. Warp Ring is guaranteed in Hell Gate, with a few more RNG-based if you're lucky.

Right so... endgame? Like literally after you've already become strong enough to beat the game?

You seem to be under the impression that the 100 floor autism grind dungeon is the early game. It's not. You're fucking obsessed with grinding.

 

[Sigourn]

Two prestigious Codexers battling it out. My money is on the one without an Undertale avatar.

 

[Hyperion]

The Ogre set is the only endgame example.

Warp Shoes are a guaranteed drop from a story battle. Rime Chapter 3, from a Terror Knight. He's either the boss, or on a grunt on the right side of the map depending on the path you took. Warp Ring is guaranteed in Hell Gate, with a few more RNG-based if you're lucky.

Right so... endgame? Like literally after you've already become strong enough to beat the game?

You seem to be under the impression that the 100 floor autism grind dungeon is the early game. It's not. You're fucking obsessed with grinding.

....That's all you could take away from what I said? Warp Ring drops on the FIRST fucking floor of the dungeon. And what about the other 3 sources of movement, and the entire rest of the post? Oh yeah, those don't count because....reasons you can't explain. I'm starting to get second hand embarrassment for you now.

Right. Delterius was right in that all Matsuno games should be played, but the real takeaway here is your opinion on them isn't one anyone should listen to, because you've shown nothing but rudimentary game knowledge at best, or willful ignorance of a game you dislike for poorly thought out nerdrage at worst.

Especially since this idiocy was started because I liked a different game than you, and the butthurt was triggered at the mere mention of the game.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I wouldn't have bothered replying if you weren't lying your ass off about the two games. Liking it because of more party members or the plot or the fire emblem style resetting if a single character hits 0 hp... whatever, your cup of tea. But telling people FFT has no complexity because you spent 5 hours grinding in the first chapter to one shot everything with melee is retarded. The game is incredibly complex, lends itself to all sorts of restriction chalenges that radically change how you play, and TO has... very minor stat tweaks and a handful of interesting items that down show up until 20 hours into the game. Or never, if you're not reading a guide. Again, that fucking dungeon is a postgame grindfest. The second floor reward is a spell that will one shot pretty much every encounter outside of it for the rest of the game without having to move your wizard. It's not even remotely comparable to the timeline for getting teleport on a character in FFT, which doesn't require a guide telling you to persuade the second mook from the left in battle 23 to steal his shoes because TO doesn't have thieves. Going on about some obscure ending you can get by reading a guide telling you to persuade randos of different races and how you can make a character really overpowered after grinding a bunch is pretty telling of your outlook. I'm not the one going on about obscure things you can do in FFT by spending 20 hours and referencing a guide so you can change their stat growth ever so slightly, or grinding levels by doing pointless crap instead of playing the game like a normal person. I know plenty of obscure and OP tech in the game, that shit isn't the point. The point is that the difference between a monk, knight, and geomancer in FFT is massive, while the difference beween a knight, berserker and beastman in TO is some very minor stat tweaks that are less relevant than gaining one level with literally any class.