Game News Project Eternity Kickstarter Update #22: Q&A with Tim, Cooking?, and Avellone Trolls You!

[Major_Blackhart]

I'd personally like to hear that paladins aren't Lawful stupid anymore.
That's one thing I'd like.

 

[Jaesun]

Paladins are extremely devoted, often fanatical, soldiers who have pledged themselves to a chosen cause, combining the zeal of a priest with the ascetic discipline of a monk. They have founded many elite fighting forces, from the original Darcozzi Paladini, a two thousand year-old order of palace guards, to the fledgling Fellows of St. Waidwen Martyr, zealous defenders of the Godhammer pilgrim trail. Often found at the vanguard of many conflicts, paladins are natural leaders and have the ability to quickly assist their allies with targeted commands. A paladin's commands can stave off impending death, overcome fatigue, or hasten the charge to close breached defenses. And though they are not always pledged to the service of a god or gods, paladins are so singularly focused on their chosen cause that their souls are continually creating a wellspring of spiritual energy from which they can blast groups of foes in their immediate vicinity. Despite their often stoic presence and explosive combat style, paladins work best alongside allies. When isolated, they can be vulnerable, especially against singular powerful foes.

 

[LeStryfe79]

I'd personally like to hear that paladins aren't Lawful stupid anymore.
That's one thing I'd like.

Pretty sure they're like Warlords in this. Zealous, but not necessarily pious or lawful.......

 

[villain of the story]

Preserving the update page for archival purposes:

Spoiler

 

[Zed]

 

[Mrowak]

How does the whole asking questions work? Was there a thread where you can post it or do they pick it at random?

Perhaps Wise Emperor can tell us where he posted the question that Tim answered?

Searching isn't hard:
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...t-eternity-thread.75947/page-234#post-2308971

Ok, so it's random. Maybe if I post my question here and there Tim will take note of it:

[incurable optimist mode]

Most Obsidian games are renowned for their heavy focus on storytelling and associated gameplay elements: investigation, dialogue choices, varied skillchecks and so on. According to the campaign this is not going to change in Project Eternity - it is even supposed to introduce mature themes to the equation. However, the game is also said to introduce heavy combat-related gameplay with plenty of tactical options, skills, spells, abilities and so on.

Usually combat heavy RPGs do not do well in terms of storytelling serving typical "save the world" plot which explains why the player engages into large scale homicide and extermination of other races well enough, but does little beyond that unraveling in pretty linear fashion, outside of player's influence (Icewind Dale I being the chief example). Your typical PnP campaign plot, if you will.

On the other side of the spectrum we have story heavy-games that touch upon serious subjects and themes, with many choices where combat - its form and challenge it offers - is not just a lackluster affair, but at many points it strikes as out of place (Planescape: Torment and Mask of Betrayer).

My question is: how will you approach those two radically different types of gameplay in PE and how would you mesh them together into coherent whole that would not defy each other? Can we hope that combat will have bearing on the story (e.g. your performance in combat, or achieving one of many combat objectives can change the course of the plot)? Can we hope that the objectives you achieve withing the scope of the story will change combat parameters (e.g. who you fight against, what for, and what far reaching consequnces of engagement in combat will be?)?

[/incurable optimist mode]

 

[Surf Solar]

After seeing that guy who us supposedly some lead designer (?) playing IWD2 like an absolute dumbfuck yesterday and generally talkin like a douche my interest in this game got damped a lot. One would expect people in key positions to actually know the games they try to "recreate" a bit better, but alas he should stick to gis beloved Diablo III if he cant even figure out the simplest shit in IWD.

Also, seeing all this "cooking recipes!!1" bullshit, it's painful to watch. It's as if you meet some old school friend again only to see that s/he desperately needs money and tries to get it by any means, trying to sell vacuum cleaner contracts at the class reunion just to get that extra dollar.

 

[ironyuri]

After seeing that guy who us supposedly some lead designer (?) playing IWD2 like an absolute dumbfuck yesterday and generally talkin like a douche my interest in this game got damped a lot. One would expect people in key positions to actually know the games they try to "recreate" a bit better, but alas he should stick to gis beloved Diablo III if he cant even figure out the simplest shit in IWD.

Also, seeing all this "cooking recipes!!1" bullshit, it's painful to watch. It's as if you meet some old school friend again only to see that s/he desperately needs money and tries to get it by any means, trying to sell vacuum cleaner contracts at the class reunion just to get that extra dollar.

He did a blind LP of IWD 2 a game that is over a decade old, in a gaming paradigm that no longer exists, and he's not a designer, he's the project manager and a programmer.

Not to excuse that he sucked at IWD 2 like a faggot, but seriously, SS, don't be a little bitch.

 

[J_C]

What ironyuri said. He doesn't need to be a cRPG guru to be a good project manager.

 

[Mrowak]

What ironyuri said. He doesn't need to be a cRPG guru to be a good project manager.

But it wouldn't harm him. His job would be to oversee the entire project and see to it that the goals are met in time and exhibit appropriate quality. The quality part may be troublesome to him, if he cannot tell what made IE games so iconic and memorable.

 

[ghostdog]

The only game so far where he had a big role in the studio was NWN2 MOTB where he was creative lead and that's about the same job he has here too. Judging from that I think he is a probably good addition to the PE team.

But on second thought he sucked at some crappy IWD2 play stream I didn't even bother to watch. Fuck that loser. This game is gonna be shit.

 

[Surf Solar]

What was the point of this video LP then? "Lets show hoe much we love these old games by streaming us playing for the fans" sounds like a nice concept to whore out for more money and create nostalgia induced sympathy for more backers, the way they did that was heorrible and facepalm worthy. So what if the game is old, what has this to do with anything? IWD isn't the most complicated game, yet this guy played it like a dumbfuck to the point where it was painful to watch. So what if he is "just" a programmer? One would assume people working for a company that most of the times atleast try to make RPGs with that "oldschool" feeling would know better, instead of playing Diablo III? Especially if he is the manager guy for this kickstarter/game its even worse and shows how much actual integrity these people have.

 

[ironyuri]

What was the point of this video LP then? "Lets show hoe much we love these old games by streaming us playing for the fans" sounds like a nice concept to whore out for more money and create nostalgia induced sympathy for more backers, the way they did that was heorrible and facepalm worthy. So what if the game is old, what has this to do with anything? IWD isn't the most complicated game, yet this guy played it like a dumbfuck to the point where it was painful to watch. So what if he is "just" a programmer? One would assume people working for a company that most of the times atleast try to make RPGs with that "oldschool" feeling would know better, instead of playing Diablo III? Especially if he is the manager guy for this kickstarter/game its even worse and shows how much actual integrity these people have.

He played IWD 2, and it was a hell of a lot more complicated in its chargen possibilities than IWD was. He spent a good half hour to forty five minutes in chargen, which is what I'd usually spend if I'm exploring all the possibilities for creating an interesting or themed party, rather than going in with a walkthrough and creating a perfect min-maxed twink party for maximum fucking cheese.

He then played through the starting level for a while, read much of the dialogue aloud for the audience who couldn't necessarily see it, and in general just had fun with it.

I don't see the problem here? Nitpick his work as a designer, not his skills as a gamer. If he sat down, read the manual, had started with IWD first, and all the rest and he still sucked then there would be an issue with his competence. As is, he's a guy who never played IWD 2 doing a blind play for a livestream. Would you rather he spent all his days at the office playing through the IE games than working on the kickstarter project?

Ps. There was no point. It was just for fun and to create some static on the internet channels to keep users interested in the campaign and to humanise the development team. Brenneke was announced as a lead in the original KS video but to many of us he's an unknown quantity, unlike Sawyer, Cain and Avellone. Obsidian has to market not only its project, but its talent both as competent designers and as human beings and gamers to give their kickstarter a public face. This is a kind of grassroots PR to meet the "grassroots" style of crowd funding.

I bet you can't play good music to save your life, Surf Solar, so why the fuck do you promote bands in your shitty Leipzeig? I bet if you tried to make music, you'd be a failure. What right do you have to promote bands? Oh, you're telling me that you are competent at doing so eventhough you might not be a spectacular artist? Ok, cool. Thanks, bro. Now apply that logic to this situation.

 

[Roguey]

I'm pretty sure Adam mentioned several times that he played all the IE games back in the day. Guy's just a scrub.

 

[Cosmo]

Moaning

He did what he did honestly, even offering interesting tidbits of infinity engine lore (the way the scenery was created, the absence of italics, and so on) and reminding me of a great game despite his approximate handling of it.
Now stop acting like a ten year old and get a life.

 

[ironyuri]

All of this kind of shit is just white noise that distracts from the actual important issues related to kickstarter and the development of the game. Fuck.

Instead of worrying about how well a project manager can/cannot play Icewind Dale 2, why aren't we questioning what Obsidian will do if they reach 3.25 million but not 3.5 million? Will there be a medium tier city added in place of the 3.5 million stretch goal?

Will they present us with a more transparent development track with regular updates and continued community support from the developers outwith the kickstarter campaign?

Will they explain how and where money is going to be spent? Does Obsidian have working capital for the project in order to pay wages before the kickstarter funds are injected for actual project development? Are our kickstarter funds keeping the studio in the black so it can pay its employees, or are they financially stable and using our money only on game assets and to augment salaries of those who will be working exclusively on the game?

Have you ever seen the television programme Dragon's Den? None of the Dragons look happy when a prospective petitioner for investment asks for a cut for their wages. Why? Because if you can't pay your own wages and don't start production from a stable financial point, you are putting the investor at risk. If our funds are going toward MCA's mortgage, rather than toward game assets, then PE remains at the mercy of the vicissitudes of the game's industry.

 

[Mrowak]

All of this kind of shit is just white noise that distracts from the actual important issues related to kickstarter and the development of the game. Fuck.

Instead of worrying about how well a project manager can/cannot play Icewind Dale 2, why aren't we questioning what Obsidian will do if they reach 3.25 million but not 3.5 million? Will there be a medium tier city added in place of the 3.5 million stretch goal?

I doubt that, because the stretch goals gave nothing to do with any plan. They are set at certain positions for marketing reasons only. That's why I have a sneaking suspicion that $3.5 million goal for a motherfucking huge city was set so high to boost the campaign, without actually a chance of achieving it (The quality of the cities is also a problem, because, e.g. Neverwinter from NWN2 is rather poorly done).

Will they present us with a more transparent development track with regular updates and continued community support from the developers outwith the kickstarter campaign?

Will they explain how and where money is going to be spent? Does Obsidian have working capital for the project in order to pay wages before the kickstarter funds are injected for actual project development? Are our kickstarter funds keeping the studio in the black so it can pay its employees, or are they financially stable and using our money only on game assets and to augment salaries of those who will be working exclusively on the game?

I am very concerned about that. A plan with a budget should be a prerequisite for a project for this kind of money to even appear on Kickstarter. Add to that: how on earth are they going to make the whole game in 18 months? How can they ensure that the content thay are making will be top-notch, and won't suffer from tight schedule.

Have you ever seen the television programme Dragon's Den? None of the Dragons look happy when a prospective petitioner for investment asks for a cut for their wages. Why? Because if you can't pay your own wages and don't start production from a stable financial point, you are putting the investor at risk. If our funds are going toward MCA's mortgage, rather than toward game assets, then PE remains at the mercy of the vicissitudes of the game's industry.

Indeed.

 

[Cosmo]

ironyuri

I would have worried about those things a month ago, but :
- the pacing of their campaign, despite the many early criticisms, has been quite well handled, indicating that they may not be that clueless at business and managing ;
- Feargus seems to be loath to release any business info whatsoever, and i understand it's his prerogative, so i decided to trust them on that despite their many past shortcomings...

 

[Mrowak]

- Feargus seems to be loath to release any business info whatsoever,

Which gives all the more reasons to be concerned.

 

[Cosmo]

And what can you do about it ?
I won't bang my head against the wall, even considering the "drama queen" tendencies that this forum has always been encouraging.
Or let's say i won't do it in absence of any tangible element.

 

[Mrowak]

And what can you do about it ?
I won't bang my head against the wall, even considering the "drama queen" tendencies that this forum has always been encouraging.

No, but is also important to highlight the possible danger and constantly demand transparency, wherever you are. Blind acceptance and unjustified devotion has never done us any good, so why should it now?

 

[Cosmo]

As i said, i think it's their prerogative. Development and gameplay transparency, sure. But the rest is for them to deal with.

 

[ironyuri]

And what can you do about it ?
I won't bang my head against the wall, even considering the "drama queen" tendencies that this forum has always been encouraging.
Or let's say i won't do it in absence of any tangible element.

Nothing. But they're not using a publisher's money anymore, now they're using our money.

 

[Mrowak]

As i said, i think it's their prerogative. Development and gameplay transparency, sure. But the rest is for them to deal with.

I was talking about business transparency as well.

 

[Cosmo]

Yeah i know. That's what "the rest" was referring to.