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Project Tamriel & Tamriel Rebuilt - Morrowind modders keep chugging along

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
6,826
The project has a history of unraveling itself which is why this worries me.
Each release seems to have bolstered it a whole lot though, and they just essentially realeased two at once, with another seemingly on the way (though who knows just how soon that will actually be).
 

Funposter

Arcane
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
1,822
Location
Australia
The project has a history of unraveling itself which is why this worries me.
Each release seems to have bolstered it a whole lot though, and they just essentially realeased two at once, with another seemingly on the way (though who knows just how soon that will actually be).
Yeah, I'm in agreement. Development seems to be in a healthy place and the quality is high enough that even as the team experiences turnover, ether from people losing interest or just moving to a new stage in their life, I don't see their work getting canned. It's also important to note that a lot of the future plans have been properly conceptualized. Questioning the future of the project based on how it was organised a decade ago isn't legitimate, imo.
 

Maggot

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 31, 2016
Messages
1,243
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
Interesting to see they removed the boat from the start of the game to Ebonheart for quick access to TR content. Is there a recommended playstyle for experiencing the new faction quests? I believe the old area they redid to the east had a lot of fighter's guild quests but I know nothing about the new western area.
 

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
6,826
Questioning the future of the project based on how it was organised a decade ago isn't legitimate, imo.
Agreed. They actually posted up an article about the history of the mod (all the drama, etc.), and it's a fairly interesting (if long) read. Seems in the beginning they made it with focus on making shit "cool" and fast, and it looked the part, but gradually, the perfectionist faction (one that also demanded things to stick to the lore as closely as possible) grew in power, and basically decided that most of the work done is shit and needs to be redone, which caused a schism in the project between the perfectionists and the others (who got angry and offended over their work getting scrapped). And this seems to have happened multiple times. The autistic perfectionalists have prevailed in the end, and seem to be content with the current quality of what they're putting out.
 

Funposter

Arcane
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
1,822
Location
Australia
Interesting to see they removed the boat from the start of the game to Ebonheart for quick access to TR content. Is there a recommended playstyle for experiencing the new faction quests? I believe the old area they redid to the east had a lot of fighter's guild quests but I know nothing about the new western area.
At least with the Mages Guild, Old Ebonheart is geared to a slightly lower level and then the Andothren and Firewatch stuff seems more difficult. Seems to me that you should quickly rush through early game content in Vvardenfell (up to say, Level 5 idk) before heading over. The new Ashlands area is definitely tougher than OE and the Thirr River area.
 

None

Arbiter
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
2,133
The project has a history of unraveling itself which is why this worries me.
Each release seems to have bolstered it a whole lot though, and they just essentially realeased two at once, with another seemingly on the way (though who knows just how soon that will actually be).
Yeah, I'm in agreement. Development seems to be in a healthy place and the quality is high enough that even as the team experiences turnover, ether from people losing interest or just moving to a new stage in their life, I don't see their work getting canned. It's also important to note that a lot of the future plans have been properly conceptualized. Questioning the future of the project based on how it was organised a decade ago isn't legitimate, imo.
It is a passion project and passions run high at times, just as they did a decade ago. I'll be more specific this time: I'm referring to Vern getting banned (again), Gnomey disappearing, Atrayonis quitting, one of the more productive devs being an overworked tranny, Project Tamriel channels being closed off to public participation, public meetings aren't a thing anymore, etc. All I can say is it makes me worry that things will continue to become more insular and ad hoc, which means quality will certainly drop (no public input to sanity-check decisions) and the potential for pointless drama to derail things increases.
 

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
6,826
At least with the Mages Guild, Old Ebonheart is geared to a slightly lower level and then the Andothren and Firewatch stuff seems more difficult. Seems to me that you should quickly rush through early game content in Vvardenfell (up to say, Level 5 idk) before heading over. The new Ashlands area is definitely tougher than OE and the Thirr River area.
No need, actually. I went to Old Ebonheart right at level 1, and found it perfect for my level. There's so much content in there that you'll level up soon enough
 

Funposter

Arcane
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
1,822
Location
Australia
The problem with TR is no cohesion. Too many different people collaborated over too long.
It's what I thought the first time I heard of the project and its scope. This is simply too much to bite off for most modders.
It's certainly true when comparing early content to 2018-onwards, but I think that the releases over the last 4-5 years have been pretty tight and everyone seems to have a pretty good idea of what they want TR to be. The issue is now going to be updating or completely overhauling/replacing old content. They always say that the Telvannis rework is "in the far future", but I agree with Popiel that I can see it being pushed forward to be completed within the next year or two. There's just too much interest in the Telvanni as a faction, they've conceptualized some really fun ideas for the Telvanni questline on the mainland, and the old content is simply begging to be replaced at this point. A flyover of Boethiah's Spine and the Mephalan Vales is a stark contrast with Aanthirin or the new Armun Ashlands. There's just so much negative space, like the designers still wanted it to be a proper trek, even for players using the Boots of Blinding Speed or something.
 

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
6,826
Well, the new approach seems to be to work on new content, while reworking old stuff in parallel, region by region.
 

agentorange

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
5,256
Location
rpghq (cant read codex pms cuz of fag 2fa)
Codex 2012
Project Tamriel channels being closed off to public participation, public meetings aren't a thing anymore, etc. All I can say is it makes me worry that things will continue to become more insular and ad hoc, which means quality will certainly drop (no public input to sanity-check decisions) and the potential for pointless drama to derail things increases.
It being closed off and private is a good thing and is how they're able to maintain any semblance of consistent quality. Early access and public developer discords and such have proven that leaving designer decisions up to public consensus is not a good idea, and in the end when you leave things open to the "public" it ends up being the most terminally online sycophants who end up calling the shots (who usually have shit opinions). Not sure how having public input would make things less ad hoc, anyway, since it's just more voices added to the mix. Gatekeep gatekeep gatekeep, keep the walls high. If you don't have the dedication to go through all the vetting processes and whatever trials they have to get on the team then you shouldn't be having any creative input on the project.
 

None

Arbiter
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
2,133
Project Tamriel channels being closed off to public participation, public meetings aren't a thing anymore, etc. All I can say is it makes me worry that things will continue to become more insular and ad hoc, which means quality will certainly drop (no public input to sanity-check decisions) and the potential for pointless drama to derail things increases.
It being closed off and private is a good thing and is how they're able to maintain any semblance of consistent quality. Early access and public developer discords and such have proven that leaving designer decisions up to public consensus is not a good idea, and in the end when you leave things open to the "public" it ends up being the most terminally online sycophants who end up calling the shots (who usually have shit opinions). Not sure how having public input would make things less ad hoc, anyway, since it's just more voices added to the mix. Gatekeep gatekeep gatekeep, keep the walls high. If you don't have the dedication to go through all the vetting processes and whatever trials they have to get on the team then you shouldn't be having any creative input on the project.
What releases of "consistent quality" coincided with TR being closed off and private? It has been relatively open since around the OE release iirc. I have no idea what other discords you are talking about and I do not find that to be relevant. Nor your point about terminally online sycophants: that is the core demographic when it comes to people who mod or are interested in a now 20 year old game, which is why having development be done in an open air forum is a good thing. Less meetings = less formal decision making, that should be obvious, as well as the potential repercussions. It is a public project filled with world-building obsessed nerds and keeping it open to the public helps drive interest and recruitment.
 

Hagashager

Educated
Joined
Nov 24, 2022
Messages
647
TR will never get done

Yup and this is also true for many other projects such as OpenMW
OpenMW is a textbook example of feature-creep dooming a project.

OpenMW, as an open-source port of Morrowind, is finished. It's less buggy than Vanilla, it's 100% playable, and it looks roughly on-par with vanilla save a few minor changes due to the engine.


Everything since roughly 2019 has been feature-creep. They're mostly nice and cute features, but features nonethless that have nothing to do with the original game.


The team refusing to just declare Version 1.0 and calling anything after as updates is hurting their word-of-mouth.

I can't tell you how many mouth-breathing nerds I hang with who REFUSE to play OpenMW because it's "still only on Beta 0.47". No amount of arguing or explanation will change their minds.

With OMW, and stuff like TR, you have to almost reframe your own perception and accept it as an endless pet-project. You get on the project for a while for your own amusement, then get off when you're done. The ride will still go on regardless. Enjoy the trip you took with it.
 

Kalon

Scholar
Joined
Jan 21, 2016
Messages
191
REFUSE to play OpenMW because it's "still only on Beta 0.47". No amount of arguing or explanation will change their minds.

I just don't see the point of it for me since my installation of Morrowind is perfectly stable. As for bugs, maybe I've been playing for too long but I no longer see any.
 

Maggot

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 31, 2016
Messages
1,243
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
REFUSE to play OpenMW because it's "still only on Beta 0.47". No amount of arguing or explanation will change their minds.

I just don't see the point of it for me since my installation of Morrowind is perfectly stable. As for bugs, maybe I've been playing for too long but I no longer see any.
Better combat AI that takes advantage of their class and race abilities and actual pathfinding.
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
1,181
Location
yer mum
So, after going back to Morrowind after a looong time and binge-playing latest Tamriel Rebuilt release for a month, I can freely say OC Morrowind seems boring and tame in comparison. Some highlights:
- Temple questline of Almas Thirr is absolutely fantastic, with a nice medium armor as a final reward;
- Thieves' Guild quests are memorable, but the last quest in Firewatch is either bugged or I'm too retarded to finish it without cheesing things. Genuinely curious about Andothren TG;
I used a combination of 100% chameleon and invisibility to put the amulet back. Then, like a greedy, barb-dicked furry I was, I promptly stole it back - 20 pts luck is too good to pass up :smug:
- Mages Guild is as incompetent as ever and I still hate them. Fighters Guild is MUCH better;
- Hlaalu is, surprisingly, really fleshed out - Mainland branch of the House is so loathsome I struggled not to kill some of them there and now;
- can't wait to see what they'll do with Redoran so I'd be finally able to finish the game as Dunmer FG -> Redoran/Temple (with Pax Redoran thrown in!):whiteknight:
Overall: really fucking good, and I can see why they want to redisign/update Telvanni Isles.
 

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
6,826
I'm curious about House Dres. Seems like it could end up being even more based than Redoran
 

Zariusz

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
2,075
Location
Civitas Schinesghe
I'm curious about House Dres. Seems like it could end up being even more based than Redoran
I think that there is already some sweet concept art of House Dress fortress
city_by_feivelyn-dcltfo8.jpg
 

dreughjiggers

Maidenhaver
Joined
Dec 26, 2022
Messages
261
Location
Vvardenfell
House Dres represents the past of pre-Tribunal Great House culture, a persistent tradition of Daedra- and ancestor-worshipping civilized Dunmer clans.
 

dreughjiggers

Maidenhaver
Joined
Dec 26, 2022
Messages
261
Location
Vvardenfell
Project Tamriel channels being closed off to public participation, public meetings aren't a thing anymore, etc. All I can say is it makes me worry that things will continue to become more insular and ad hoc, which means quality will certainly drop (no public input to sanity-check decisions) and the potential for pointless drama to derail things increases.
It being closed off and private is a good thing and is how they're able to maintain any semblance of consistent quality. Early access and public developer discords and such have proven that leaving designer decisions up to public consensus is not a good idea, and in the end when you leave things open to the "public" it ends up being the most terminally online sycophants who end up calling the shots (who usually have shit opinions). Not sure how having public input would make things less ad hoc, anyway, since it's just more voices added to the mix. Gatekeep gatekeep gatekeep, keep the walls high. If you don't have the dedication to go through all the vetting processes and whatever trials they have to get on the team then you shouldn't be having any creative input on the project.
What releases of "consistent quality" coincided with TR being closed off and private? It has been relatively open since around the OE release iirc. I have no idea what other discords you are talking about and I do not find that to be relevant. Nor your point about terminally online sycophants: that is the core demographic when it comes to people who mod or are interested in a now 20 year old game, which is why having development be done in an open air forum is a good thing. Less meetings = less formal decision making, that should be obvious, as well as the potential repercussions. It is a public project filled with world-building obsessed nerds and keeping it open to the public helps drive interest and recruitment.
No it isn't.
 

Kalon

Scholar
Joined
Jan 21, 2016
Messages
191
After I don't know how many tries I've just admitted that I simply can't get into TR. I've tried Map 1 , Map 2, the Sacred East release, the latest release. Each time I've installed it I've played a few days, marvelled at the size and creativity of everything, then uninstalled it. As far as I'm concerned there's something in TR that just doesn't fit with the rest of the game experience.
 

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
6,826
After I don't know how many tries I've just admitted that I simply can't get into TR. I've tried Map 1 , Map 2, the Sacred East release, the latest release. Each time I've installed it I've played a few days, marvelled at the size and creativity of everything, then uninstalled it. As far as I'm concerned there's something in TR that just doesn't fit with the rest of the game experience.
That's me playing Morrowind in general, lol. After a couple days, I just burn out on it.
 

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