Game News Publisher Exploiting An Obsidian Kickstarter

[Gozma]

It's really too soon to talk about this before we see the failure rate and the expected returns in non-kickstarted sales of the post-boom kickstarted games. If it's 75% failure and limited sales the model is toast, if it's 5% and you get like 3/4 of your total sales post-release this will be the way you always do midbudget games (comrade).

 

[tuluse]

It's really too soon to talk about this before we see the failure rate and the expected returns in non-kickstarted sales of the post-boom kickstarted games. If it's 75% failure and limited sales the model is toast, if it's 5% and you get like 3/4 of your total sales post-release this will be the way you always do midbudget games (comrade).

I'm hoping that some of these companies make enough money off their project they can self fund, or maybe only need a percentage from kickstarter. I can totally see this happening with InXile which is a pretty small company.

 

[Gozma]

The amount you get from kickstarters is a really good way to gauge the budget you should invest into a given game based on how much the initial idea appeals to people. If you have that luxury for one project you would hate to throw it away for the next one. You get almost priceless market research on top of 2-year preorders and a non-trivial amount of totally free money; Kickstarter is gonna have to die or transform before anyone quits it of their own volition.

 

[tuluse]

I know this because I have several friends who make fun of my a lot for contributing to kickstarters.

Do they by chance suck publisher cock?

It varies between telling me that I'm being "scammed", thinking it's silly to pay for a game before it's made, and calling me a gaming hipster.

The first two are semi-legitimate concerns, which is why I think the games that get made will sell more copies when they come out.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

I know this because I have several friends who make fun of my a lot for contributing to kickstarters.

Do they by chance suck publisher cock?

It varies between telling me that I'm being "scammed", thinking it's silly to pay for a game before it's made...

I think the word they are missing in their dictionary is "investing". And to think that, for a moment, I feared they have some legitimate concerns.

 

[Reapa]

You people do realize kickstarter is evil, don't you?

Basically someone has an idea, tells you to finance it, you give him the money and maybe you'll someday get to play something good.
Outcome of the story has 3 possibilities:
1. The game never comes out - no money back, no interest (as an investor which you are or a shareholder which you should be since you've invested, you've been screwed) - you lose
2. The game comes out but it sucks - no money back, no interest (as an investor which you are or a shareholder which you should be since you've invested, you've been screwed) - you lose
3. The game comes out and it's good - still no money back, no interest (as an investor which you are or a shareholder which you should be since you've invested, you've been screwed) - you still lose

I might get stoned for this, but I have to say that the only reason why kickstarter is successful, is that somebody has found a way to shift the risk of an investment to those who are the least qualified to even realize they're risking something, to those who lack any overview over how finance works, to those who are gullible enough to think the win something by losing, which is you, the sheeple and not only not to share any of the sales' profits with the investors (you, the sheeple) but to not even return the investment in case of success.

So you see publishers as the daemons of capitalism when these daemons at least take the risk of failure from the developers and pay the developers for their work and you don't see the devil that takes everything, leaving the investors, you, the sheeple, without their money and without any profit from the investment.

It's like giving your money to a beggar who will build himself a castle founded on your ignorance.

Once again the stupidest kind of people is the masses and you can always rely on them not only to not see the whole picture but to not even see their own actions as wrong.

Wake up and smell the shit you're in!

Since i know I'll be criticized by people who can't read, I'll try to make things clearer by saying that I realize publishers may be bad, but kickstarter is worse.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Butthurt publisher detected.

It's donating, not investing, fucktard. Big difference. Not to say there aren't those who throw their money left and right, but still, it has nothing to do with investing.

 

[Reapa]

So when you're giving money away because you're dumb it means you donate - please don't consider the fact that "donations" are supposed to help people in need to live not people in need to get rich.

And as it was prophecised the critic will come from those who cannot read since i did mention quite obviously that i don't agree with publishers being part of the system.

You've detected nothing. Tragically, nothing at all.

 

[Infinitron]

I don't want interest. I don't want money back. Who are you to tell me what I should want and how I should spend my money?

 

[villain of the story]

There are crowdfunding channels with investment options. If you are so inclined to be an investor, swing that way. Some people do. Nobody is forced to anything. And on the contrary, if Kickstarter had unquestioned investment options proportional to the amount you are pledging, it would be dominated by existing publishers and become The Little Publisher Heaven overnight, negating the whole fucking point of publisher-free model. It would finally save the publishers of the already few obligations and responsibilities they have to the developers.

So wake up and smell the shit in your brain.

 

[FeelTheRads]

So when you're giving money away because you're dumb it means you donate - please don't consider the fact that "donations" are supposed to help people in need to live not people in need to get rich.

No, dumbshit, I'm giving money away in the hope that I help a company do something that I want. "Donating" might not be the right term for it, but guess what, I don't really care what it's called.
But yeah, thanks for telling me what I should do with my money. Now why don't you go and tell the same to those who buy every next-gen shit game released. Or is that a clever way to spend your money?

 

[Infinitron]

The proper term is "patronage".

 

[villain of the story]

The capitalist publishers are exploiting the developing classes!

This is absurd. There's no way that publishers could 'exploit' Kickstarter to the detriment of developers, because the only way any developer would accept such an offer is if the publisher offered some genuine benefit in return. In this case, they clearly didn't, so the whole attempt was utterly stupid.

But if this Kickstarter fad continues to grow, it's not implausible that some sort of 'oversight companies' will come to fulfil a traditional publisher's role - vouching for the quality of the project by putting their name behind it, making up for budget shortfalls if the amount raised proves insufficient, and making sure the games actually get released. Even in that case, I very much doubt they would be able to extract 100% of the profits from the developer - it'd probably be some small percentage of the total revenues.

You are underestimating the extent of push publishers are capable of. Publishers have channels of making your word reach the most secluded places and ship the actual product to those places. They have the power of advertisement networks. All of our favourite shit games sell millions because of their influence and foothold in PR. They can sell shit like gold. That is why they exist at all.

It isn't surprising at all that a publisher would think that the final product of PE might have a wider market appeal at release than word of mouth and teh internets during the Kickstarter and sell even more units than the amount of backers post-release so they would have offered what they excel at. PR campaign, exposure, bonus etc.

Even that Obsidian's initial plan was only a Steam copy has a tangent on the same reality. Steam is the juggernaught of digital distribution. They are the publisher of the digital age and getting your game on Steam is a huge net plus for anyone, even with all of their discounts that lower a game's worth to shit because it provides arguably the biggest amount of exposure and sales that you simply wouldn't be able to achieve otherwise despite having the highest cut of the profits among digital distributors and it has a sharp preference -and even demand!- among digital buyers over other digital distribution platforms. It's only a matter of time and accumulated wealth before Steam takes the next steps in becoming a more demanding publisher.

Publisher model isn't inherently EVIL(TM). It's just lawfully evil as The Brazilian Slaughter would tell in this last day of his month.

 

[Reapa]

I'd like to play a game with you:

Let's say i wanted to build a castle. How much money would you donate so i can realize my dream without having to work for it? Of course, you will be allowed to look at my castle once it's done, and it will be an awesome one with lots of very high towers. You will not be allowed to enter it and you will certainly not be allowed to live in it and i don't think I'll have the time to personally thank you for your contribution since I'll have to build it, then turn it into a hotel, then managing my business, then retiring and enjoying my profit. Then again, i just might lay a few stones and quit while I still have enough leftover from my donations to retire right away - who could blame me, when I never really promised anything and noone has any right to ask for his money back?

 

[Infinitron]

I don't want a castle, I want an old school RPG. Can you make that?

 

[FeelTheRads]

I'd like to play a game with you:

I'd like you to stick a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger. Fucking waste of oxygen.

I don't give them money to realize their dream. I don't give a shit what their dream is. I only give them money if what they want to make is of interest to me and if I trust them to be able to complete it. Sure, it's a risk, but I risk in the hope of getting something in return. Which was your "3rd possibility" a couple of posts above. Which only a fucking retard of your level could consider a loss, since that's exactly what I'm paying for: that they deliver to me what they promised.

Fucking publisher plant, fuck off and die.

 

[villain of the story]

I'd like to play a game with you:

Let's say i wanted to build a castle. How much money would you donate so i can realize my dream without having to work for it? Of course, you will be allowed to look at my castle once it's done, and it will be an awesome one with lots of very high towers. You will not be allowed to enter it and you will certainly not be allowed to live in it and i don't think I'll have the time to personally thank you for your contribution since I'll have to build it, then turn it into a hotel, then managing my business, then retiring and enjoying my profit. Then again, i just might lay a few stones and quit while I still have enough leftover from my donations to retire right away - who could blame me, when I never really promised anything and noone has any right to ask for his money back?

Very flawed and immature attempt at an analogue. Are we only paying for your dream of building a castle? Did you promise us a night in your castle? Is your dream of castle so good that some people would want a night in your castle in the first place? But forget about that, you are not even offering a night in your castle. Or a dinner inside it. Or donating it to a team of RPG developers so they could use it as an office without paying for rent. You are not offering anything at all. But if the only thing you were offering is that you would build a castle and leave it at that, the people would have no one but themselves to blame for backing you for your dream if you were to flip flop on it once you got the money. Now, if you had promised a night or a dinner in your castle and then disappeared with the money, that would be a problem but then again, it would probably be something people could take to the court depending on the country and at any rate, I don't think you would find many people willing to throw money at you so that you could realise your dream of building whatever without offering anything in return at all. That's not how shit works, son. You might like to browse through Kickstarter. It's like a fucking graveyard. People don't just throw money at everything like flies getting lured towards the light. It's a non-issue that some people like you like dramatising, what with over-saturation or Kickstarter bandwagons. Things that what we here call retarded people do.

Now, if you were promising me my dream RPG but failed to give me any confidence or proof of your abilities, I still wouldn't back you. But if you did both exquisitely and got my money and then disappeared, I would beat your punk little ass if I ever got my hands on you.

 

[Reapa]

I think you should seriously reconsider your wishes. A castle would be more awesome than any old school rgp. It would be made of real stone, heavy stone, that you could really touch and feel, an it would have a real dungeon beneath.
wtf
do you really not see that my point is people should not get money for things they promise to do from people who are not capable of overseeing their project? this is not about those who succeed in bringing a new old game on the market, even if they get rich on someone elses money but about those who will just promise to do it for the gain?

Infinitron

and

a 33% chance of return of your investment which in your case would be just to play a nice game, because you're to limited to see more potential in your money, is still not a smart investment.

@the nice person who loves me so passionately that he can't refrain from covering me with his love even if I didn't specifically ask for it

 

[laclongquan]

I don't get something: Why would publishers do this? I mean, AAA+ rpgs that publishers usually fund these days cost upwards of 80+ million dollars. And that is BEFORE advertising costs. Wasteland 2's kickstarter, which was VERY successful by K-starter standards raised 3 million dollars.

So, why would publishers care for a paltry sum on kickstarter when they already wallow in hundreds of millions?

The term is "loss of influence". The game publishers are worried about their (hopefully) shrinking sphere of control if Kickstarters become halfway successful.

Right now they are overlord in game making. The story of publishers force team of developers to follow their 'target', their 'design', are plenty. The shit they force gamers to swallow with no choice is historical. And gamers' pleas fell on deaf's ears.

If kickstarter is halfway successful, ie any team of competent coders, stubborn but talent artists, and developers with vision can make a living by creating games people like enough to throw money at them, all the pool the corporates will have is the rejects and the mediocres. They can throw money into that to get profit but they will lose influence, prestige, etc... We will laugh at their games and the sheeps that are their base customers.

Which is why the publishers, smart ones anyway, will try to get in the ground floor of this KS thing.

 

[Reapa]

@villain:
If you think you will ever get your hands on anyone who will promise you to make a good rpg and won't, just because you gave him some money out of free will, as a "donation", then it is you who is the retard.

 

[Reapa]

also, just like me, people will promise you to try to get rich off your money - the games they make whether good or not is not the real goal. If it were, they'd sell it to some publisher, because as you've already stated, publishers have the capability to reach more people. As it has been quoted, the actual thread, never stated anything about the publisher wanting to change the game, just not wanting to share profits - so if you don't get it now, you probably never will - it's about profit, not about the game.

 

[Reapa]

They feed on your hopes and I'm the bad guy...

 

[Dexter]

They feed on your hopes and I'm the bad guy...

You are not the bad guy, you are just fucking retarded.

Almost everyone that puts money in a KickStarter knows exactly what he/she is doing, no matter how many fucking retards like you crawl around the corner trying to "explain" it to people because they think they are stupid.
It's very simple, publishers won't deliver "game X/Y" e.g. let's take "oldschool adventure game" or "oldschool RPG" because they don't believe it will "give enough return on investment". This is a perfect method for capable developers/people to announce that they want to do a project and for people to invest into the idea with the offered rewards (e.g. copy of the finished product and whatever else).
Even if it doesn't pan out it's still better to have tried, spending anywhere from $20-200 or even more depending on the chance of having a great product than to wait another 10 years for some publisher to have mercy and fund a proper RPG/Adventure etc. all the while buying AAA crap.

If you don't care for it stop berating people about what they can or can't do with their money, because they won't give a fuck. Just don't do it, shut the fuck up and wait for the final game to be released like a very large amount of other people, at which point you can decide if you want to buy it or not just like before. Like this one here that recently released: http://www.ftlgame.com/

It might be hard for you to believe, but people aren't fucking stupid and give their money for literally anything just because someone promises them something without any chance to deliver or might be potentially shit. There are a very large amount of projects that fail, and rightfully so.

 

[Grimlorn]

Another thing to add is, if you're just giving them $25 for digital download or $65 for a boxed version plus shipping, then it's really no different than preordering a game. You just have a little less idea what you're getting. It also may be risky with unknowns who have no product to display, but I doubt it's much of a risk with legit studios like Obsidian and InXile.

The only question is whether they can make great games on their limited budgets from kickstarter. We'll see.

And kudos to the people who invested a lot more than a preorder would cost. Without them these companies probably wouldn't be able to meet their kickstarter goal and it also shows how passionate people are about these games and that there is demand for them.

 

[tuluse]

The proper term is "patronage".

The more people that understand what this means the better.