Incline Question on Kickstarter incline

[himmy]

After having, today, a conversation with a friend I started having a question. We were discussing the chances of the Kickstarter Spring to pay off. He's a decadent cynic who belies, much like many of the voice on the Codex, that all is shit and there's no way it's getting better. I, on the other hand, prefer to keep a quasi-enthusiastic optimism on the issue, in that, I won't be surprised, and maybe not even disappointed, if all the fetish projects of the Codex turn up to be bad to mediocre. However, I WANT TO BELIEVE™ and think that most of them can turn out quite nicely and even brilliant, in some select cases.

But what I want to know if there is anybody at the other end of the cynical axis. Is there somebody who believes that, for example, Torment: Tides of Numenera will be better than the original P:T, or Wasteland 2 ending up better than, let's say Fallout 1, or Project Eternity than BG2 etc.

I would be very interested to hear any such voice and hear their arguments, since I seem to be mostly surrounded by jadedness.

 

[Excidium]

I think the big three will turn out alright for the average codexer, but in the end they're still just imitations.

 

[Night Goat]

I see no reason to assume they won't be good. I could be wrong, of course, but these games are being made by people who have a proven track record and don't have Big Money breathing down their necks. They're not like other recent rpgs, made for the sole purpose of maximizing profit.

 

[Kz3r0]

But what I want to know if there is anybody at the other end of the cynical axis. Is there somebody who believes that, for example, Torment: Tides of Numenera will be better than the original P:T,

That's impossible, Torment was one of a kind, on the same level is not out of question tho.

or Wasteland 2 ending up better than, let's say Fallout 1,

That's is completely feasible lets hope they accomplish it.

or Project Eternity than BG2 etc.

No, because Sawyer.

 

[DalekFlay]

I like how optimism means Wasteland 2 is better than Fallout, or Torment 2 is better than Torment.

Can't I just expect them to be good games? This endless comparison shit is what makes people cynics.

 

[Tigranes]

I'm not sure. I've replayed IE games, Fallout, etc. for over a decade now and I'm finally rather sick of doing so. I really hope these ones deliver and I can replay them for years to come, since who knows how many games we'll get after these. I think it's most likely, though, that they'll be something like MOTB - something great with lots of good elements, but not quite on the same level all things combined. I'll be happy enough with that, though.

I have a bit lower expectations for Wasteland 2, which I expect to be great fun but not a classic. I'm not persuaded they have the writing quality.

 

[Excidium]

I think writing is the least of their issues.

This endless comparison shit is what makes people cynics.

How are people not supposed to compare when everything is a spiritual sequel to something else. Maybe if they tried something fresh then it could be judged on its own.

 

[DalekFlay]

How are people not supposed to compare when everything is a spiritual sequel to something else. Maybe if they tried something fresh then it could be judged on its own.

Whether it's fair or not you can't do the constant comparison thing. All it does it lead to disappointment.

 

[almondblight]

I thought FTL, Paper Sorceror, Expeditions: Conquistador, and Shadowrun Returns were all pretty good (though I only backed two of those), so the Kickstarter track record is already better than I expected it to be. Xenonauts, Telepath Tactics, and Stasis have all released playable stuff that's been well received. Updates for the other games I've backed have been pretty solid so far.

I imagine Wasteland 2 will suffer a bit from being one of the earlier games, but will still be good for what it is (like SRR). Companies will probably do a better job once they have a better idea of the time frame involved and what they're trying to accomplish - I anticipate Torment and Berlin to be better.

So yeah, overall I'm pretty happy with how the Kickstarter stuff has been going.

 

[Longshanks]

Of the big three:

Project: Eternity seems rather generic and not overly exciting, but it does look very nice and I have hopes for it to be a better written BG[1-2] like. I'd be surprised if it weren't a better game than the original BG, though not so confident of it surpassing BG2 and it will likely have less content. Looking forward to playing a game of this style again anyway, it has been a while.

Wasteland 2: squad, turn-based combat, with guns? Haven't played one of those in like ever (this does have squad-based combat right? I've not been following details on any of these projects that closely). Other than that I don't have huge expectations of this game just yet. Those expectations will depend on the strength of the roleplaying more than anything, and I don't know enough about how this is shaping up at this stage.

Numenera: I think this is the most "try-hard" of the three. It has lofty aims and is shooting for something we've really not seen from any game. Yes, it is closely aping PST - and that's a good start - but it's dialing many of the narrative aspects up to 11 and making a great effort to tie it all in with gameplay. There is the risk that they take it all a bit too far and it ends up being pseudo-intellectual tosh, but for me, this is the one that has the greatest potential. It will all be in the execution and I'm skeptical that it can hit all marks, and free itself from being too close to PST, but if it does it could be something special. The other two seem more like good solid games within their genre that will recall their predecessors but not surpass them.

The great thing for me is that these three games are all very different and are all being developed by people who believe in them. Whether these games succeed or not, they are definite cause for excitement. We've not had such prospects in many a year, particularly from semi mainstream development houses.

 

[Sitra Achara]

I expect that they'll all be good, yet flawed games; on the level of Fallout 2 and MotB. The sequels will be even better.

 

[Haba]

I expect that they'll all be good, yet flawed games; on the level of Fallout 2 and MotB. The sequels will be even better.

...

Yeah, like Fallout 3 and Dragon Age?

Decline is the only constant in the world. Good is but a brief flare of chance.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Why people tend to forget about Divinity: OS is beyond me.

I haven't seen their toolset, of course, but if it would be even on the same level with NWN1, then even if main campaign will be shit, we always hope for mods. (Sadly, such paradigm haven't worked out well for Shadowrun, but oh well, let's hope for the best).

 

[Davaris]

I'm expecting all the big 3 games to be fun but I have no expectations of a classic, so if one appears it will be a pleasant surprise. However Dead State is one I've had high hopes for right from the start.

I haven't seen their toolset, of course, but if it would be even on the same level with NWN1

What they've shown of their toolset on YT looks very nice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG-PujUp-9Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaxKBhHTk1Q

 

[Stainless Veteran]

I'm expecting all the big 3 games to be fun but I have no expectations of a classic, so if one appears it will be a pleasant surprise. However Dead State is one I've had high hopes for right from the start.

I haven't seen their toolset, of course, but if it would be even on the same level with NWN1

What they've shown of their toolset on YT looks very nice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG-PujUp-9Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaxKBhHTk1Q

I meant that I haven't seen it firsthand. In videos it sure looks cool, but you can't objectively judge something as complex as toolset based solely on videos. But yeah, as I said, I have high hopes for it.

Oh, and speaking of Dead State - I really liked Mitsoda's work in VtM: Bloodlines, but I have some concerns about DS though. Most successful kickstarters maintain relations with community not only on dedicated forums, but also using regular kickstater updates and other social media. Double Bear though somewhat fails at self-promotion and communication, not to mention development speed. I can forgive the latter though, they are small indie company, but that shouldn't stop them from communicating with fans and giving regular updates about their progress. Also, while I'm not a graphics whore - DS character portraits and art direction are questionable at best.

 

[Davaris]

Oh, and speaking of Dead State - I really liked Mitsoda's work in VtM: Bloodlines, but I have some concerns about DS though. Most successful kickstarters maintain relations with community not only on dedicated forums, but also using regular kickstater updates and other social media. Double Bear though somewhat fails at self-promotion and communication, not to mention development speed. I can forgive the latter though, they are small indie company, but that shouldn't stop them from communicating with fans and giving regular updates about their progress. Also, while I'm not a graphics whore - DS character portraits and art direction are questionable at best.

I view the silence as a good thing. I take it they are working on the game, instead of PR. I'll be really disappointed if it doesn't turn out to be great. I really want it to be great is what I meant, as I really like the idea of it.

As for the art, to me it looks artificial and reminds me of a board game, which is good IMO. The only way it could be better, is they made the interface look like Last Night on Earth. Make it look like a board game, is how I would do it.

 

[Applypoison]

I'm gonna have to agree that comparison is vastly overrated, although it can't be helped as some people simply can't set their own reference points in life. Comparison also happens to be a definer in the fine line between healthy competition, and ill-spirited rivalry. Indies are growing strong with crowdfunding, in no small part because many of them back one-another and cross-promote without fear of dumb **** like "losing a share of the market".

So for your jaded friends (or yourself, if you're feeling introspective), ask this question: What can change the nature of a man? What defines a "good" or "successful" game? The majority of the time the answer boils down to "how well it does commercialy/criticaly", which means the majority of the time the person giving the answer is part of the problem.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

My hopes are highest for NT, because it's the culmination of this whole process - kickstarter craze, community feedback, collaboration between inxile and obsidian, use of unity engine, all that. I expect it'll be better than all the infinity engine games except maybe BG2.

W2 and PE are just foundations.

 

[Outlander]

The Big Three ™ will certainly be alright, perhaps even great and memorable. The most interesting thing however, it'll be to witness what kind of reaction these games will spawn and what other games from InXile, Obsidian and other medium-small size devs will release in the years to come.

Personally I'm looking forward to Pyke's take on the RPG genre once Stasis is confirmed the great adventure game is shaping up to be.

 

[V_K]

I'm actually more interested in some lower-profile kickstarters than the "big three": Frontiers, Lords of Xulima, Antharion, Quest for Infamy, Arakion. Plus Paper Sorcerer that came out already and is really good.
Big three will probably all be decent, but they're all copying older games, and it's not my favourite games that they're copying.

 

[felipepepe]

Regarding The Big Three™, they'll probably be decent games, and most of the codex will love them at first, but after the hype & rush dies down, they'll be considered "good for what it is" games, with apologists using budget limitations to answer any accusation.

Ideally, they should be short & sweet like F1; but they will probably make huge games, mostly mediocre with a few brilliant moments here and there. The post-mortem will have developers talking about how the lack of budget limited the scope of the, so they couldn't make it as reactive and full of choice as they wanted, even though they hyped it as such until release day.

Divinity :OS, Xulima, Barkley, Balrum and other less hyped KS projects will be received with much less impact, but will probably stand of as better games on the long run.

 

[Infinitron]

Hipster detected.

Also, Divinity:OS has a bigger budget and larger scope than any of the "Big Three".

 

[Applypoison]

Hipster detected.

Ugh everytime I read "hipster" I think about that guy who was just trying to make a living with his typewriter in the public park.

PS plz don't hate on Xulima supporters, god knows too few people see the brilliance in that game for them to be silenced

 

[Crooked Bee]

I think it's pretty much impossible to predict which of those games are going to be any good.

 

[sser]

Divinity: Original Sin is the only one that passes my skeptical radar. It just looks like a well-designed, tightly knit game. I can't yet buy into a great, expansive RPG 'of olden days' being made out of a Kickstarter yet. I feel like with fewer resources, you gotta focus the game into something smaller. I mean, I'm really curious to see how those three 'big' games turn out, but I'm not getting hyped for them because the track record for this sort of thing is kinda nonexistent.